Wanting to know if anybody uses one and how they would hold up to 500+ hp with sticky drag radials. Lots of them available from police Crown Vic's and the length might even be close.
I don't have a clue about the 500HP, but, as far a fit, I'm using the one out of my drivetrain donor '95 Mark VIII. My '57 is a short wheelbase Custom.............obviously(?) the longer Fairlane wheelbase must be different on the driveshaft length. My MarkViii driveshaft is unaltered, I used a 1"taller yoke on the differential to make the fit/length perfect. Obviously there are other factors figuring into whether or not their length would work for you, but yeah, they're in the range.
I was gonna use one (it was free)! Too short, my drive shaft guy said it would cost too much to lengthen it.
'04-'06 Crown Vic PI donor. Came with 1350 joints and C6, Top Loader, Tremec compatible yoke. It is behind a built AOD with 3000 stall converter (no brake)...long tail shaft...long rear yoke and Daytona support. It works great for me but I can't tell you about 500HP or sticky tires.
Mine is a Custom, so short wheelbase. I have the stock driveshaft in it now with a hybrid 1330 / 1350 universal. I'm using a Daytona pinion support also with a c-6 and 460 engine.
I feel I'm pushing my luck with the stock driveshaft but I do check the universals a few times a year. I may end up getting a pickup or full size ford one to shorten up.
Randy,
I have a aluminum shaft for sale, has 600 kilometers on it, out of my F-150.
Terry
Thanks Terry, I'll keep it in mind. I did a quick measurement of mine and it's 55" center to center on the universals. The measurements I'm getting from the web on a police C/V is 54.5 to 55". I also found out their high speed balanced, depending on what rear gear they have in them.
Seems like old aerostar van had an aluminum driveshaft that was same length as one of my '57's.
I had Inland Empire Driveshaft make me an Aluminum with 1350 U-Joint and forged front Yoke. I can tell you it is definitely good to 500hp manual trans with slicks.
A 1350 U-joint will take a lot of abuse. We used two 1350 U-Joints for our swing axle conversion drag transmission at 7000 RPM launch's, 145 cu in, 350HP (with 70 HP NOS), 1950# total weight (with driver), 10# of air in the M&H slicks. It was a 1960 VW drag car (ran best of 10.80's, at 133 MPH). We only broke one 1350 U-Joint in 19 years of racing. Using these joints for the axles, was putting much higher torque on them, than using them for a driveshaft that spins four or five times faster.
The thing that will kill any part of your drive train is wheel hop. The pinion snubber is a key part of your system. Shim that snubber up so it hits a solid frame support as soon as the rear of the car squat's during launch. Next time you have the rear end apart, I would consider adding a welded tubular support across the back side of the housing so the rear wheels do not toe in during launch.
I would consider having, or adding a good quality drive shaft hoop securely mounted to the frame. No matter what parts you are running, they can break at anytime. You do not want to be sharing the cabin with a spinning driveshaft. Safety equipment is usually mandated based on the speed and ET your running. Having a driveshaft loop might not be required for your ET, but it's cheap insurance.
A bit off the topic, but I always thought the severely necked down 57 driveshafts looked strange, and kinda spindly for racing use. Randys 514 inch 57 shows that they are not necessarily as scary as I thought. I wonder how Ford even made the driveshafts that way. Not sure about 58s, but my 59 2 door sedan driveshaft does not neck down at all, but its pretty skinny all the way, maybe 2 1/2" diameter. Most of the aluminum driveshafts seem to be 3 1/2" or 4" diameter, any of you guys have one that size, and did you need to modify the tunnel at all for clearance?
Quote from: John Palmer on 2019-02-18 21:49
A 1350 U-joint will take a lot of abuse. We used two 1350 U-Joints for our swing axle conversion drag transmission at 7000 RPM launch's, 145 cu in, 350HP (with 70 HP NOS), 1950# total weight (with driver), 10# of air in the M&H slicks. It was a 1960 VW drag car (ran best of 10.80's, at 133 MPH). We only broke one 1350 U-Joint in 19 years of racing. Using these joints for the axles, was putting much higher torque on them, than using them for a driveshaft that spins four or five times faster.
John, the stickshift drag racing group I belong to ( bcsupershifter.com), has 4 VW Beetles that run with us, 3 run low to mid 10s, naturally aspirated, and the other is turbocharged, and has gone mid 9s. Anybody that says Fords are expensive to race should check with the VW guys! Mendeolla transaxles, every single engine piece is aftermarket, big $$$ Weber carbs etc, makes even racing a FE seem like a bargain!
Mine is pretty close (1/2" or so clearance) at the floor support brace just behind the tranny. I would like to raise my tranny up at the crossmember about 1/4" if it weren't for that. I really didn't want to weaken the support by shaving it down. Driveshaft won't have alot of up and down movement at that location, but........
I'll probably give one a try as the wrecking yards are full of old C/V's and a driveshaft can be had for pretty cheap, my universals joints will even swap over if need be.
I already have a driveshaft loop installed. My car tends to rise instead of squat on acceleration just because of the way Caltracs work, to the point where the rear shocks would
top out. Since then I bought a set of Strange adjustable's. As far as welding a back brace, not to sure I want weld on a getting hard to find housing. I'd be better off cutting,
welding on a big bearing pickup housing, but that's another topic.
u joints may not need to be changed, but not a big expense for a combination joint........... but maybe the slip yoke? I honestly don't know how consistent Ford was with keeping the same spline output shafts from one tranny to another. LOL, not even sure why I'm in this conversation, you guys know a lot more about this stuff than me.
Ford was actually pretty consistent with slip yoke splines. C4 , T5 and small input Toploaders are generally 28 spline, C6 and big spline Toploaders are 31 spline. Of course, they did make numerous length and width 9" pinion flange yokes...
And Randy, hopefully you can find a wrecking yard driveshaft that escaped being bent or gouged by a forklift!
No real experience with them but I did think about using one at one time. I talked to the guy at the drive shaft shop about it when I want to change from the tapered shaft and old style U joint and pinion flange to a one diameter shaft and later pinion flange and he took me in the back of the shop and showed me a big pile of torn up aluminum shafts, all from different makes and models, he said many were from Ford trucks. I'm sure I would have any issue behind my 292 but I decided to go with the steel. If I had a 500hp motor I think I would look at one of the high performance competition shafts that are made but then there is a big difference in $$$$$.
From the information I have the Ford racing driveshaft for Mustangs is the same Alcoa aluminum shaft from police C/V, only shortened of coarse. Mine already has a Spicer hybrid u-joint in it now for the Daytona pinion support. I don't see why I couldn't use my original c-6 slip yoke also. Yes, finding one that hasn't been damaged by a forklift could be a challenge. Whats scary is the way some wrecking yards balance these cars on just the steel rims placed under the body.
Just took a quick measurement of my original driveshaft and it's 3.25 then steps down to 2.75 then to 2.25 and finally 2.00 for the last foot and half or so.
Crown Vic driveshaft is 3.66.
Quote from: 59meteor on 2019-02-18 22:38
John, the stickshift drag racing group I belong to ( bcsupershifter.com), has 4 VW Beetles that run with us, 3 run low to mid 10s, naturally aspirated, and the other is turbocharged, and has gone mid 9s. Anybody that says Fords are expensive to race should check with the VW guys! Mendeolla transaxles, every single engine piece is aftermarket, big $$$ Weber carbs etc, makes even racing a FE seem like a bargain!
The Air Cooled guys from BC are hard core and were always a lot of fun. Even though we raced mostly in California, they always came down to see us race at The March Meet at Bakersfield, and the Bug In events.
Ask them if they know of The Palmer Boys, out of Orange County?
They came to one of our house parties before a race, and we had a "empty" five gallon can of VP Propylene Oxide, for the base of our tiki torch.
Yea, parts are expensive. We ran billet, flanged, Scat cranks. The best we ever got was two seasons, before they cracked at the center main.
John, not to change the subject, but noticing your Santa Ana location just sent me on a nostalgic trip back in time. I had moved to Cal in the late 60's, and after a few years in the LA area, I eventually wound up working for a large machine shop in Irvine on Campus drive (next to the airport). Bought a house in Huntington Beach for 24,500! 5 or 6 years later, I worked my way up from prototype Bridgeport machinist to General Manager. We moved the shop to Santa Ana at Segerstrom and Croddy way, just about 1 1/2 miles from my new house in Fountain Valley. Worked my way up to VP of manufacturing after another 5 or 6 years. Finally got worn out working 6 or 7 12 hour days a week!, and tired of the conjestion.......moved to Colorado.
Anyway. I just Google earthed Santa Ana to see if I could find locations. As conjested as it was when I left in the 80's, things sure have changed. What a trip using the street view to see if I could find my way from the Croddy Way shop to my house in the Green Valley tract of Fountain Valley!
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2019-02-21 08:36
John, not to change the subject, but noticing your Santa Ana location just sent me on a nostalgic trip back in time. I had moved to Cal in the late 60's, and after a few years in the LA area, I eventually wound up working for a large machine shop in Irvine on Campus drive (next to the airport). Bought a house in Huntington Beach for 24,500! 5 or 6 years later, I worked my way up from prototype Bridgeport machinist to General Manager. We moved the shop to Santa Ana at Segerstrom and Croddy way, just about 1 1/2 miles from my new house in Fountain Valley. Worked my way up to VP of manufacturing after another 5 or 6 years. Finally got worn out working 6 or 7 12 hour days a week!, and tired of the conjestion.......moved to Colorado.
Anyway. I just Google earthed Santa Ana to see if I could find locations. As conjested as it was when I left in the 80's, things sure have changed. What a trip using the street view to see if I could find my way from the Croddy Way shop to my house in the Green Valley tract of Fountain Valley!
Rich, sorry to get this thread off track!
I guess it's the same for most of us "old guys", here. I grew up in Phoenix, AZ. When we go back to visit, I can hardly find my way around town because of all of the new freeways and commercial development. Like in southern california, all of the small towns in the Valley of the Sun grew together into one major metro area. I got to So. Cal. in 1978, via a job transfer. It was a crazy area at that time, and has only became more impacted. Because of age, medical issues, and grand kids, it makes it a very hard choice to pick up and move to a slower paced place. Hell, I was the youngest guy on the block 30 years ago, now all of my neighbors have died off, and I realized "I'm now the old guy". I keep young (in mind) by always building something.