I have these 2 Ford diagrams.... I am looking for more info on the rad support/rad cradle pin and its parts....I swear I have seen a different version of this with possible different parts.... does ANYONE have a picture or diagram of something different than in this Ford Pic?... if so.. please share.....
(https://i.imgur.com/YEhpDRe.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LGEkZyv.jpg)
Found this..... which has more or less of what I have......
Strange..... the first 2 diagrams are from actual ford manuals.....
(https://i.imgur.com/0tXiEni.png)
Jeff, I did not take my car apart, BUT, what I have looks like the parts in this drawing, as opposed to the two above. The "major" difference being part reference number 16648 which came with my car. I see that it has a * next to it as do a couple of other parts. Any idea as to the significance of the Star?
I also see in the lower left drawing, that the parts shown there are for Model 51A only. A comparison of the part reference numbers says there are several different parts used in a 51A. What is a 51A?
John
All '57s that I have disassembled were one of the two spring types in the Post 2 illustration. Since the springs are always broken or in poor condition, I have assembled like in the Post 1 illustration with fab'ed parts.
John.. upon a closer look..... I believe my stuff(all apart now) is closer to the diagram in my second post... and i have no idea what a Model 51A is... I believe it may be a 55 or 56 model.. not sure.... but I have a photo from a FB Group that captures exactly what i have...except...I have a very course tight spring that sat between the lower nut and rubber bushing....I guess this may be a lot of fuss about nothing..but I am starting to address the front end and front sheet metal... and getting proper alignment is crucial... and this component is key......
(https://i.imgur.com/s3zB17w.jpg)
Quote from: gasman826 on 2019-05-01 11:48
All '57s that I have disassembled were one of the two spring types in the Post 2 illustration. Since the springs are always broken or in poor condition, I have assembled like in the Post 1 illustration with fab'ed parts.
Gary..I feel we will be likely on the same path.
I believe 51A is the retractable. My 76B has the little leaf spring thingy. All earlier Fords I've had used the coil spring setup.
Jeff, heres some info that I have collected from this site over the years. probably from Rich Lynn and Gary. hope this helps.
this is from my CS, all og.
(https://up.picr.de/35653095ft.jpg)
also some pic of the hardware.
Gunther!!!!!!...... Thats it!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe Rich was documenting all the Ford bulletins!..
AMAZING
Thanks G!!!!!!!!!
larger
(https://up.picr.de/35653157av.jpg)
Jeff, when you read through the bulletin and check the dimensions of the center bolt ( looks like some sort of special, shouldered, carriage bolt) you will find that the bulletin says it needs 0.090" clearance between leaf spring and upper rubber. so it should obvioulsy not just be tightened down with a simple bolt.
Got it G... This the info I was looking for....... Brilliant and THANK YOU!
As Guenter said, should not be tightened down with a standard bolt. That's the reason for the shoulder style bolt. Another reason for not tightening down is you don't want to compress the spring more that designed or you'll lose the original design/function. The 3 shims are important also to keep the shoulder bolt at the correct compression/free space.........in other words, the shims are used either above or below for alignment, but you always need to keep the three.
Not sure what Guenter's "OEM" pic is showing with that blocky looking thing below the spring. Looks like at some point someone replaced the rubber puck that goes above the spring with a block of something..maybe rubber? That rubber puck is just to give the front end a little cushion on a hard bump, and keep the spring from flattening/bottoming out.
Without checking that model number, I do remember in the past wondering why the retracs had a different core support bolt setup.
Jeff.......I do not believe that "heavy coil spring" you mentioned is oem.
Just to confirm what was said, those first two diagrams you posted are not correct, they are not even showing the little leaf spring. Guenter's post shows the correct assembly.
If you buy replacement rubber pucks make sure the supplier is providing ones that have a large hole, big enough to fit the long part of the bolt. Dennis Carpenter had a problem with these at one time. I spoke to them and they were dismayed that they had been sending out ones that had a hole sized for the threaded end.
Rich that "blocky thing" I think you are referring to is part of the frame as I see the picture?
51A is the retractable hardtop body. Interesting that it has a different spring support, frame is different, possibly a design update?
I have all the parts except the rubber(it was long gone on disassembly) I have all other items.... we are good.
What confused me was the very 2 first diagrams...... they made no sense.. and all parts are not what is displayed on the service bulletin and Gunthers parts.
Thanks All
Rich, Lynn is right. that boxy plate is part of the front frame and supports the leaf spring. below that you can see a stack of 2 shims ( like you mentioned 3 in total so one must be above frame bracket and below leaf spring). then there is the shim retainer with bent up tabs and the lower ruber puck, washer and self locking nut.
above the leaf spring and below radiator support cradle the upper round rubber puck is barely visible
I have every reason to believe that this is all factory and has never been replaced before.
Ok, I now have a theory about all of this after giving it a lot of thought after a few beers. I think the purpose of the spring is to allow for the difference between the body /fender flex and the frame flex. My guess is the first diagram is the early design used on earlier model years that quickly proved inadequate since the '57's were "longer, lower, and wider", hence the second drawing. I bet that design proved inadequate for the retractables because they were heavier/longer and the frame/body flex was greater than the flat spring could accommodate. I suspect the flat spring was marginal at best and poorly understood by body men and mechanics in terms of proper setup, hence the service bulletin and the fact that a lot of springs failed. How's that for imagining a scenario 60+ years ago. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it! :002:
Thats a good a guess as anyone's :003: I wish someone would make new replacement springs. Mine was gone and I just Mickey Moused it...
sounds very reasonable Lynn!
I want to add, that the leaf springs also allows for side to side movement ( like in the old buggy spring suspension on Ford Ts As and early V8s) and if the front of chassis or suspension twists, the fenders and body frontend will just move with the main body, hence less fender squeaks, or tears in sheetmetal flanges.
51A is indeed the Skyliner (57-59) body model code.
Skyliners used very different body mounts than all the other 57's. They are solid not rubber and the frame is way stronger with a huge "X" member.
The core support mounts are unique to 51A's.
With my top down the door gaps open up less than an additional 1/8"!
Ron.
76B Sunliners also use solid composite type mounts with shims and also have the X frame. When I did my car the conv. mounts were not yet being reproduced. Fabricated mounts from thick dense conveyor belting.
Good to know, I've not done a regular conv only Skyliners.
Ron.
This is how mine was configured on disassembly. 300 Tudor with 223 six.
Exactly correct assembly. Too bad your spring is broken......wish somebody would reproduce those. Should be easy for a spring shop I would think, the only issue being how to determine what the spring tension is suppose to be.
I had to shim mine a couple of times, it kept dropping and I would lose the door gap. Third time it finall settled in to where the gap stayed pretty good. I believe my car was in an accident before I got it cause I needed more than three shims.