Morning,
I'm looking for a reference point to gauge the potential of my driveline against its correctly working and tuned counterparts.
Should my car be able to do a burnout?
I figure the ability to boil the rubber, or not, is about one of the most universal baselines around.
I'm working on getting this thing tuned up and dont want to leave performance laying around on the table. Thats just inefficient.
'57 Town Sedan
Stock everything 292 YBlock (comp test 115-120 all 8 )
Autolite 2100 - 1.23 Venturi (when working)
Stock Fordomatic
9" Rear with 3.10 gears
215/75 - R14 all weather
If the answer for the above combinations is a resounding NO, then I am perfectly good with that. Wasnt planning on buying rear tires every other week anyways.
But if this stock setup should be able to smok'em, or some semblance thereof, I have some work to do, because I'm nowhere near even chirping the tires from a dead stop.
Again, not worried if this is a slow setup, just curious about what this car should be able to do.
This is my first experience with a YBlock, I'm just glad its running, but....
I know the little 302 in my '70 Torino would get on it.
Not with that axle ratio.
When I first got my Custom it had a rebuilt 272 in it. It also had 3.10 rear gears, 14" bias ply's and it would get 10 ft. of rubber. It wouldn't smoke the tires by no means, but it could squeal one of them and leave a narrow black mark. I never tried to brake torque it and get them spinning, just tramp on it from a dead stop. I was impressed by the torque of that little 272. It pulled pretty good for a small cube engine.
lol, Since I was a kid I always had in the back of my mind if I tried to smoke the tires, more than likely I was eventually going to break something. I'm still that way. I've only got on my '57 a few times from a dead stop......300hp dohc 4.6 w/350 gears, trac-loc, and 235 70 15's in the back. No chirping, just dug in and went. I could try harder, but then I'd probably be doing another "bad day" post.
Along those lines, I never saw the attraction of the burn out contests. Just seems to me everybody is competing to see who has the worst traction. I know....I'm a deadbeat.
My Fairlane 500 4 door with a 292 and a 3 speed manual would smoke the tires. I'd rev the engine and drop the clutch.... 13 transmissions later I learned to load the gears up a little first. My friends with automatics would stand on the brake and the throttle in REVERSE and shift the transmission into first, the tires would make a little loop while smoking. Bottom line I think burning the tires is a matter of technique and the ability to not think (or care) about what you are doing to the car! :002:
Well Rich I guess I'm in the same boat as you.....burn outs are the dumbest thing ever and generally speaking smoking tires usually means there is a problem and the car is going slower then it could be.....
You won't smoke those radials, too much traction. Put some old bias ply 7.50-14s on it and you'll get smoke. They probably won't get enough traction to hurt anything in your driveline either. John
Eugene, a relatively speaking small cui engine with tall rearend ratio, Automatic and Radials, it will not smoke.
Does your car have a 2spd or 3spd Fordomatic ?
the 3spd takes off in 2nd, unless you downshift it to low. The 3spd was built to be downshifted at any time. if you want a fast take off from the lights, low is the way to go. that way my 292/3spd Auto will chirp tires quite nicely when shifting to 2nd. no burnouts. I don't like that anyways, like many stated before. I am sure that a 312 or even a 292 with manual trans would do that if you stressed it. the Fairlane is heavier, longer and the 3.10 is a great rearend for todays higway cruising. I wouldn't worry too much. With a good working engine and trans you should easily be able to keep up with modern cars in traffic. if you don't and the car feels like a drag, then something probably is wrong.
I dont disagree that sitting around chewing off the back treads is not necessarily the best idea. And since I'm the one who put this whole contraption back together, I'm definitely already paranoid of something falling out from under it at any given moment. Dont want to give it any extra reasons.
I've always known with my other cars when the back end was about to let go of the road. Some i'd have to watch, like the Torino and the 64Fairlane, ...some barely cut out in the grass.
I've always heard that YBlocks are torque'y. So far, not sure that I'd consider this one in that category yet. Its got the 3 speed Fordo, and acceleration doesnt feel like its dragging, but definitely not pushing anywhere close to breaking traction.
Overall, I'm gathering that without power-braking or dropping it into gear rev'ed out, ...from a dead stop, just gunning it, ...it should at most bark them a little and then just accelerate. That sound like a realistic assessment?
if you are turning in Low, definitely. straight- not sure.
You might want to read the Ford instruction manual on the 3spd !
In any case except pedal to the metal it will start in second gear ! That is how it is intended to be for smooth operation ommiting unnecessary shifts in normal traffic. BUT the manual also states that you can downshift the gear selector to LOW by hand at any given time. That means it will take off in first and keep first for a long time, so it helps in fast acceleration. it should shift into 2nd at 30mph or so. if you forget to put it back into Drive, nothing bad will happen, except for a pretty harsh downshift into first at lower speed, because the transmission now wants to use engine braking for downhill cruising (in L). What the instruction manual also says, you can use the manual downshift also on higher speeds ( 30+) when the car is in direct gear and it will downshift to 2nd this time, without the need for jumping on the pedal and using the kickdown leverage. that is sweet when you are rolling in traffic and it gets slightly uphill and you feel that you want a little more response of the engine without having to kickdown the pedal or keep straining the drivetrain in high gear.
When I first read about that I was hesitating, but slowly got into it and now I am using it all the time for different reasons. We have steep mountain roads here so starting uphill in low is much more efficient than in 2nd. it also helps with keeping rpms up and coolant temps down in a downtown traffic jam. yes it does help in accelerating into highway traffic a lot.
I am not stomping on it like crazy but like to use the gear selector for the way Ford even intended it, and it works great so far. My 1960s Auto Mercedes had a similar shifting arrangement and you just want to get used to it. Nothing bad in just flicking the lever up and down a bit.
I would be interested if I am the only one using the Fordomatic that way or if other 57 owners do it as well.
Thats interesting about the Fordo. I'd just assumed it was to keep it in 1st gear.
So, took it around the block a few times. Tried the Low gear selection, it didnt shift, at least not up to around 30. Low gear had that whining-out sound the same way reverse sounds when it picks up speed. It definitely pulls harder than "D" though.
Pretty sure I put all the parts back in the trans, ..haaa.
Didn't attempt any burnouts either.
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2019-11-23 04:46
...the manual also states that you can downshift the gear selector to LOW by hand at any given time. That means it will take off in first and keep first for a long time, so it helps in fast acceleration. it should shift into 2nd at 30mph or so. if you forget to put it back into Drive, nothing bad will happen, except for a pretty harsh downshift into first at lower speed, because the transmission now wants to use engine braking for downhill cruising (in L). ...
Goin' thru all 3 gears when I was a kid drivin' the wheels off 'ol man's '56 Ranchwagon.
Start in low, accelerate hard, in one motion quickly shift up into drive & pull it back down to low & it holds second gear if you stay on the gas until you shift back to drive. Don't know how I learned to do that. Either read it in a magazine or some older kid told me how to do it. It worked good & that wagon really went.
I'm only guessing that that '56 wagon with a 312 & a four barrel had the same automatic trans as the '57s did. (http://57fordsforever.com/smf/Smileys/default/dontknow.gif)
Back in the old days I did lots of burnouts in my 56 Ford with a used junkyard Y block. The only good thing that came out of it
was that I got lots and lots of experience rebuilding transmissions.
These days I have absolutely no desire to do that with my 57 Ford.
Quote from: Swank on 2019-11-23 18:50
Thats interesting about the Fordo. I'd just assumed it was to keep it in 1st gear.
So, took it around the block a few times. Tried the Low gear selection, it didnt shift, at least not up to around 30. Low gear had that whining-out sound the same way reverse sounds when it picks up speed. It definitely pulls harder than "D" though.
Pretty sure I put all the parts back in the trans, ..haaa.
Didn't attempt any burnouts either.
I had a cruiseomatic in an old Mustang fastback and I'm sure it operated the same way as the fordomatic. To drag race it you would start in L , take off, then shift at whatever rpm you wanted into drive. When shifted it to second you could pull back to L to hold second gear, then shift back to drive when wanted 3rd gear. Took a little getting used to.
Quote from: Tom S on 2019-11-25 02:17
Don't know how I learned to do that. Either read it in a magazine or some older kid told me how to do it. It worked good & that wagon really went.
I'm only guessing that that '56 wagon with a 312 & a four barrel had the same automatic trans as the '57s did. (http://57fordsforever.com/smf/Smileys/default/dontknow.gif)
Tom...When in doubt, it's always best to blame the big kids. That must have must have been the same bunch that forced me to beat
my Y block 56 so much in the late 50's. Except for all the transmissions that I blew up, the car held up real good.
I also broke innumerable tranys with my 50 Ford Interceptor. The later T86 trans no better. Wish i had known about T85s back then.
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2019-11-26 11:15
Tom...When in doubt, it's always best to blame the big kids.
I'm not blaming them, Jay. I'd thank them for teaching me that but I don't really how I learned to do that anyway.
Also used to just rev the thing up & slam it into gear.
I think my family had that car for almost 10 years & I don't think it ever have any service done to the trans.
About 8 years after we got it I was a senior in high school & helped an uncle rebuilt the 312. Or maybe the idea was supposed to be him helping me. ?? Nevertheless he was the one that had the mechanical experience & know-how that I didn't have yet.
No chance in Hell you will smoke that rubber with 3:10's and an automatic. You will however manage to put a LOT of strain on the transmission, and eventually blow it up. Then you can drop a a stick in it and burn those tires all day long. I have an old T-85 under my work bench... :burnout:
I was forever blowing blowing up those early Ford transmissions until I accidentally found a T85 in a Merc, and
that was the end of my blowing up transmissions.
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2019-11-27 14:42
I was forever blowing blowing up those early Ford transmissions until I accidentally found a T85 in a Merc, and
that was the end of my blowing up transmissions.
I seemed to blow up a lot of them...although I was sticking them behind a 352 which I was pretty rough on. U-joints and trannies...left and right. Went to a top-loader 4-speed...never broke another transmission...still went through u-joints though until some dolt wrecked my car by blowing a stop sign.
I can't figure out why or how you guys kept blowing up transmissions! :o
Quote from: Tom S on 2019-11-28 02:31
I can't figure out why or how you guys kept blowing up transmissions! :o
Racing is hard on equipment. The weakest link is gonna go first. I also went through a set of 411's in my white Courier. It was a race car from the beginning of my time owning it. It has 9 leafs on each side which made for a pretty stout grip on the road, I suspect (since I know more now than I did then) that was just too much for a 3-speed and 411's...no spinning of tires...just gripped and launched.
Between the two Couriers I ate one rear end gear set, 4 transmissions and more u-joints than I can count. At least one clutch set too in the white car.
Eventually I quit using 3-speeds behind FE motors, went to 4 speeds on each of them and never broke another transmission. Never broke another tranny, or ate anymore clutches. Sadly the white car was damaged severely and is still waiting for me to resurrect it. The brown Courier was never a race car, but it saw it's share of street running, and that was fixed with the top loader. The T-85's in the brown car were behind a 352 running a set of 330 something gears...it had been built for long distance driving by a previous owner...and my driving was pretty hard on the tranny with those gears. U-joints took a beating too.
The brown Courier is the one I am currently looking to put back on the street...and it will be driven by a wiser and older person...who will not be trying to launch it for road racing from stop light to stoplight to stop light or on make-shift back country road race venues. It is being built to tour.
The white Courier will however...probably go back to being a bit of a racer, and a bit of a driver...but with a 4-speed. It will also be getting a little warmer 390 this time than the what the brown one is getting. I have this 406 solid lifter cam...
Quote from: mustang6984 on 2019-11-27 00:35
No chance in Hell you will smoke that rubber with 3:10's and an automatic.
I'm going with that. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't supposed to be able to burn'em. The advise i got when i got my first car, "dont floor it in neutral and dump it in drive, youll be buying a transmission". So, ive never done that. Never broke a trans yet. Floored them from a dead stop while in drive plenty though. Good times, ....at least it was back then. Burned a couple clutch plates in sticks shifts, but thats probably just more from bad form than anything else.
Yea...you can get away with the neutral to drive trick a few times...but not many. There used to be clutch kits made by b & M for automatics that would spool it up faster and allow peel-outs...but I always thought all that did was postpone the inevitable. Today guys use different types of torque converters. But I have always just preferred sticks. Even my 2 Explorers have sticks...and both...will leave rubber just fine...even with 4.0 V-6 engines! LOL!!! (don't tell my wife! Although hers has 311,000 miles on the original clutch and tranny!)