Anybody try this stuff? I just ordered 2 cases to break-in a new cam in my 57. Formulated for flat tappet engines so I suspect a high level of ZDDP and Phosphorus.
Yes, we have used it in some of our racing motors. We also have used the Lucas "Hot Rod" oil, as well as the Brad Penn "high zink" oils.
Frankly we never saw any difference in any of the brands. We eventually went to the roller cam route to offset the flat cam lobe issues.
Disclosure, these were all on high performance 280HP air cooled VW motors.
John
Yes, I used it in several applications, just remember it is a non-detergent motor oil.
Oil always opens a can of worms :003: The VR1 will be fine for break in. But it is formulated differently then an everyday driver oil, it is missing many things like detergent, anti oxidation, rust prohibitors etc. etc. It's designed to run a race and then dump it. Even the lowest amounts of ZDDP
in todays oils are higher then they were back in the Y block days. When was the last time you heard of a Y block cam going flat? probably never. Cams or lifter problems are on high performance cams, high valve spring pressures. When all this started happening it was when the cam manufactures started making the cam blanks and lifters off shore and they quickly blamed it on the oil.
I've been running my Y blocks, 223 six and a 390 with a solid lifter 427 cam for years on Valvoline 10-30 conventional and never had a problem.
Just my opinion and many will have others, it's an endless topic.
But Jim, how long ago were those engines build and initially run? Modern oils have much LESS ZDDP than older oils, the levels were reduced due to these additives causing problems with catalytic convertors. In recent years, I have had 3 engines with new solid flat tappet cams, I had all of them broken in on an engine dyno, with softer valve springs, and all have been fine. Nice thing about using an engine dyno, is that you can do the 1/2 hour or so break in period non stop, with no chance of the engine getting too hot, and having to shut it down to let it cool down. Not to mention monitor any leaks, plus you can load the rings at the same time, and when it`s time to put the valve springs back to spec after the run in period, the engine is totally accessible, with no chance of fenders getting scratched. I did this procedure on the 428 Cobra Jet that is in my 59, as well as my 427FE, and 331 SBF drag engines. On the advice of my buddy Ken, who owns Oregon Cam in Washington state, I have been running the Brad Penn/Penngrade 1 high ZDDP oils since this whole reduced ZDDP level crap became an issue about 20 years ago. My machinist buddy has also switched his Super Stock Chevys to the Brad Penn oils, as he found the valvetrain, especially pushrods tips, look much better on his 9000 RPM SB Chevys, than the previous oils he was using. Before the Brad Penn, I often used Shell Rotella 15-40 diesel oil, but that to has had the ZDDP levels drastically reduced, again due to emissions concerns. The Brad Penn oil does cost more than most regular parts store oils, but I find it well worth it. My 59 only went 1700 miles last year, 1500 in 2020, so , like my drag cars, I typically only do one oil change per vehicle per year. But, what worked 20-30 years ago, is not necessarily true today.
From what I understand Valvoline makes three racing oils. Conventional racing, Synthetic racing and NSL ( not street legal). The NSL has no detergents and should be changed after each event or race. The conventional and synthetic has detergents just lesser amounts added in. My 57 sees about 200-300 miles year at the most so the conventional should be fine.
The fellow that ground my new cam told me to run the Valvoline VR1,he says he's had very good luck with it. I have removed the inner springs for break-in and the rest of the procedure for the initial fire-up. The last two cams in other engines I put together broke-in fine.
Would that be Ken Heard the Ford racer from Oregon?
We have to separate the apples and oranges, street engines vs race. I think the VR1 is fine for break in but I wouldn't run it in a car driven daily. My last year mileage on my Y block was almost 6,000 miles.
My Y block was broke in 2015 has 11000 miles now, 390 in 2005 has about 40,000 now, 302 in 2001 has about 50,000 now, 223 in 1988 has 75,000 now all with 10-30 Valvoline. I still think the oils today even with reduced ZDDP have more then they did in the 1950-60's
Quote from: rmk57 on 2022-01-03 10:53
From what I understand Valvoline makes three racing oils. Conventional racing, Synthetic racing and NSL ( not street legal). The NSL has no detergents and should be changed after each event or race. The conventional and synthetic has detergents just lesser amounts added in. My 57 sees about 200-300 miles year at the most so the conventional should be fine.
The fellow that ground my new cam told me to run the Valvoline VR1,he says he's had very good luck with it. I have removed the inner springs for break-in and the rest of the procedure for the initial fire-up. The last two cams in other engines I put together broke-in fine.
Would that be Ken Heard the Ford racer from Oregon?
With the low mileage you do it should be fine, maybe change it once a year?
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2022-01-03 11:40
With the low mileage you do it should be fine, maybe change it once a year?
Yup, once a year.
My Boss 429 gets shelf brand oil. Castrol, Quaker State, Valvoline, I'm not really brand loyal. 2-3 years ago I had the engine apart and it looked like new, even used the same bearings.
Difference being is the Boss has far less valve spring pressure that I will be using in the 57 so I wanted something with a more anti-wear additives.
... hold on a sec ... I forgot where I put my poncho in case a food fight erupts ...
VALVOLINE has three types of RACING OILS. two street (one mineral the other synthetic) and one full race.
The VR-1 mineral oil does have a detergent/dispersant package but is limited due to the additive(s) allowing foaming in the oil. It has a 3,000 mile drop suggestion because of this, especially if you have carbed car with a loose fuel trim.
FULL-RACE ENGINE OIL and has no detergents as it is usually dropped frequently due to engine tear-downs.
It is not meant to be used with a catalytic convertor equipped street car. It is meant for older tech engines.
I used the VR-1 in my race cars for years with no problems, but switched to Lucas racing oil a few years ago since i had been having good results with Lucas Hot Rod oil in flat tappet street cars that were running fairly high spring pressures. That way I just order both at one time.
Quote from: rmk57 on 2022-01-03 10:53
From what I understand Valvoline makes three racing oils. Conventional racing, Synthetic racing and NSL ( not street legal). The NSL has no detergents and should be changed after each event or race. The conventional and synthetic has detergents just lesser amounts added in. My 57 sees about 200-300 miles year at the most so the conventional should be fine.
The fellow that ground my new cam told me to run the Valvoline VR1,he says he's had very good luck with it. I have removed the inner springs for break-in and the rest of the procedure for the initial fire-up. The last two cams in other engines I put together broke-in fine.
Would that be Ken Heard the Ford racer from Oregon?
Randy, yes, Ken Heard has been a Ford drag racer since at least the early 70`s, probably longer. I have been running his cams in my FEs , as well as had several sets of his FE rocker shaft supports since the 80s. Mostly pretty big flat tappet stuff in my Fairmonts 428s and 427, and currently have a smallish solid flat tappet , and rocker support system in the 59. As a cam company owner, it is certainly in his best interest to not have cam and lifter problems with his products, and he recommended the Brad Penn oil, and it has been working very well for me for decades. Kens 460 based 85 Mustang runs mid 8s with one of his own flat tappet cams, and his cams are used in a lot of Ford drag cars and street/strip vehicles. He used to own a nice red & white 57 Fairlane 500 2dr HT, and currently has a 61 Starliner and a R code 63 1/2 Mercury Marauder 427 2x4 4 speed.
BREAK-IN OILS - https://authenticpick.com/best-break-in-oil-for-rebuilt-engine/#first
Been running off the shelf 10W-30 for years in the 351C in my street rod. I have put 147K miles on it. It came out of a 72 Ranchero, miles unknown, got a rattle can overhaul and installed.
When racing the Boss 302 it was straight 30 Valvoline, oil and filter changed after every week end. Mid season tear down showed no problems and back in the car it went.
I do use "break-in oil" and a ZDDP additive for the initial run-in of 20 minutes followed by a cool down and a second run in. Oil and filter changed, away we go. Don't know if it is "by the book" but it has worked well over the years.
Two Bits Worth from an old Quaker State rep - the detergent package in oil allows the dirt to be suspended in the oil, then drains out when changed. There is no magic out there, maintenance with a good product is what we preached. Both the Valvoline Racing oils have the same amount of Zinc.
Terry
:canada:
I know there's a lot of people who think Quaker State is the worst oil out there. 40+ years ago when I had my Boss engine in for head O-ring replacement at John Halls Car Craft in North Van.
Dave Dunbar was doing all the engine work on the Trans-Am 1970 Boss 302 back then. In the corner of the shop was a 45 gallon drum of Quaker State oil that caught my eye and I asked him
is that the oil you use in the race car? He told me that's all we use in it and we have never ever lost an engine in the race car.
My Boss 429 at the time was missing the factory engine oil cooler setup at time. When I had the car down there for him to check out he had noticed it, went in to back room and came out
with a complete oil cooler setup from some other Boss car. I asked what do you want for it? He told me don't worry about. I had to force $100 on him for it. He was a great Ford tuner for
sure and really knew the performance Fords in and out.
John Hall's Car Craft and Dave were great supporter of Quaker State. If you took your own oil in, he would not put it in the car. His guarantee was only good if Quaker State was in the car.
Bud at High Performance Engines, Jack at Pro Speed, Kerrisdale, Davenport, Howie Stevens, Weissach, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche to name a few were all Big Q guys.
At that time it was all Penn Grade base stock, over the years it changed. Quaker State, Pennzoil, Wolf's Head and Kendall were all using Penn Grade base stock.
In the late 70's the bathtub brewers moved in with their magic syrups, and the industry changed.
Terry
:canada:
Quote from: KULTULZ on 2022-01-04 02:39
BREAK-IN OILS - https://authenticpick.com/best-break-in-oil-for-rebuilt-engine/#first
That is certainly an odd "review" of "break in oils", especially since 1/2 of them were not even labeled as such, or even mentioned anything about engine break in. Fighting sludge is hardly a concern on a break in procedure, one said safe for "flat tapestry" (??) engines, another says may cause leaks from the jar (??). Seems like just an ad for purchasing engine oil thru Amazon, of which about 1/2 listed are actual break in oil. Strange
I quit reading it after about the forth review. It reads like the instruction manual on a $99 Chinese drill press.