I have a major leak from the front seal on mine. I located a rebuilt a local pulled after a rebuild on his 57 312. Couple months later, not enough power so he went 427 C6 and had the trans in his shop.
It looks like the transmission is connected by 4 bolts to the bellhousing and the torque converter to the flywheel. Can I pull the four bolt's and pull the trans back out of the torque /converter?
The short answer is yes. The order of dismantle is optional. I would not assemble in that order. It is critical to the installation of the convertor spline and seal damage to install any of the Borge/Warner transmissions in that manner. It can be installed that way and has been done many times but I prefer attaching the bellhousing and inserting the convertor before connecting to the engine.
I agree with Gasman on the removal/install of the transmission with the bell housing attached. It is much easier to align the converter into the transmission prior to installation to avoid damage to the front pump seal and also to align the converter "tangs" into the pump drive. The main advantage to removing the complete assembly is that you would have access to the converter and this would be a good time to replace the large converter o-ring seal (the seal between the front & rear portions of the converter). This seal is prone to leakage and it is hard to tell where the leak is coming from (front pump seal or converter o-ring), so checking that would be a good idea if replacing the transmission.
The pump also has a gasket...three places to leak out the bellhousing.
Personally, I would remove the transmission as a complete assembly, which means leaving the bellhousing bolted up to the transmission, and unbolt the bellhousing from the engine, after unbolting the torque convertor from the flexplate, and the starter first, of course. I would never install a fresh transmission into a used torque convertor, nor attempt to install the transmission into the bellhousing with the torque convertor bolted to the engine. The chances of having something go wrong is far too great.
Quote from: oldave57 on 2025-05-26 09:23I agree with Gasman on the removal/install of the transmission with the bell housing attached. It is much easier to align the converter into the transmission prior to installation to avoid damage to the front pump seal and also to align the converter "tangs" into the pump drive. The main advantage to removing the complete assembly is that you would have access to the converter and this would be a good time to replace the large converter o-ring seal (the seal between the front & rear portions of the converter). This seal is prone to leakage and it is hard to tell where the leak is coming from (front pump seal or converter o-ring), so checking that would be a good idea if replacing the transmission.
OK this might be the issue, I have a major leak that I thought was the front seal. Thanks for the education.
edit: Can someone post a diagram of the converter apart, I could not find one and a place to order the seal/O-ring. I have never messed with an auto before only standards in these when I blew a bunch of them as a kid. Hope I can get it out later today but I would like to have parts ready to get it back together, I can't wait to get this on the road.
UPDATE: I have it all out and there is no sign of leak from the transmission but the torque converter is the issue. I separated the two pieces and they were together metal to metal and there may have been some type sealer. There was no O-ring or any type gasket so the oil was pouring out between the two. Now the questions O-ring or a gasket of some type?
There is definitely a large o-ring between the front and rear converter halves. I have attached a couple of photos that show where the o-ring is to be installed. Also below is a link to Fatsco transmission parts for the o-ring. You might consider putting in a new front pump to converter seal while you have it apart (also probably available from Fatsco) but that is up to you.
The o-ring seal installs on the front half (see arrow) and is captured between the halves when they are assembled
There is a chamfer on the rear half that captures the o-ring. Some people use a silicone sealer around the o'ring (such as Permatex "Ultra Black") to help seal and hold it in place.
https://www.fatsco.net/online-store/Cast-Iron-Ford-Converter-Seal-Kit-p63776079
Good Luck,
Dave
Great information, everybody, thanx ! I am also thinking about pulling/overhauling/replacing the Fordomatic in my 57 Country Sedan, so this information comes in very handy !
Any converters I have had out before were welded units, never seen one that comes apart. I was looking at the blue circled area as needing a gasket.
I went back and looked, the O-ring was on the cover just like you said and there it was. I had looked at the flat surfaces where they join together thinking gasket. This is with out a doubt the issue as the seals on the transmission are dry but the forward side of the flywheel/converter are soaked, I'll order that o-ring. The rest all looks good, is there anything I should do in here while I have it apart? Thank you!
Edd
As long as the front pump to converter seal is good and the pump to transmission case seal is good (which is indicated by the lack of leaks in that area), you should be good with the converter o-ring replacement.
Quote from: oldave57 on 2025-05-28 09:42As long as the front pump to converter seal is good and the pump to transmission case seal is good (which is indicated by the lack of leaks in that area), you should be good with the converter o-ring replacement.
Thanks all for the help.
None of us is as smart as all of us.
Edd
Just me but I would never go through all the work of installing a transmission without replacing the convertor seal and pump gasket.
It is harder and harder to find old school shops to rebuild the Ford-o-matic transmissions. I found a shop that was run by a gentleman and his father. The father is semi-retired and works on the old stuff. I had my 1957 Fairlane transmission rebuilt, and they did a great job, but forgot to replace that converter seal. They had to pull the transmission again to fix it. I have a few old Fords with the two piece converter and now I remind them about it if I have the transmission repaired.
I have the O-ring ordered and have cleaned the bellhousing and transmission down to cast iron, 68 years of dirt&oil gone. The bellhousing had trace red like the engine so I assume it was painted red. Were the transmissions painted? When the O-ring arrives what is the bolt toque on the converter. I have a 57 repair manual and there isn't any automatic information.
From my 57 service specs, hope this helps.
57cs s1450.jpg57cs s1451.jpg
Thank you djfordmanjack that is exactly the information I was looking for. I have the manual I posted and there is nothing in it on the automatics. I plan on painting he bellhousing to match the engine and as long as I have the transmission cleaned I'll likely paint it too just because.
glad you can use this.
I believe the engine and transmission in my 57CS to be untouched, and there is no trace of red paint on the bellhousing/transmission. both appear to have had a very thin coat of black on the cast metal parts. There is not enough surface rust imho, for me to believe it was just as cast without any paint on it.
1957 was the early days of the FOM. Dealers had neither the parts or trained techs. IF a FOM had a failure, the dealer would get or had factory new or reconditioned transmissions on a skid in the parts room. The tech would R&R the transmission and the parts room would strap the failed unit to a skid and return to FOMOCO. Since Borg-Warner was providing the transmissions to FORD, I wouldn't be surprised if Ford shipped the transmissions back to B-W to handle replacement or reconditioning. Early parts and service manuals were printed with very little FOM service information.
I did recall those were the early start of automatics most everything earlier was standard 3 on the tree.
Quote from: Edd505 on 2025-06-02 18:55I did recall those were the early start of automatics most everything earlier was standard 3 on the tree.
My Fairlane is 3 on the tree with the O/D...a T-85.
Quote from: mustang6984 on 2025-06-02 19:38My Fairlane is 3 on the tree with the O/D...a T-85.
I would have preferred the standard but I couldn't pass it was just too clean.
Understand.
Waiting on the converter O-ring. Next question, I normally use a thin coat of Vaseline on o-rings, lube this ring? .
I don't mean to change the subject, but I just noticed in your signature that you have a '58 Ford with a '57 front and rear sheet metal. Is it yellow by any chance?
The attached images show the FOM Service Manual pages for re-assembly of the converter and it does not mention any kind of lube for the large o-ring, but if you normally use Vaseline I can't see how that would hurt and it might help keep the o-ring in place.
The manual also shows the assembly placing the converter cover (the part with the o-ring) being placed front down on blocks and then dropping the impeller assembly onto the cover. When I reassembled my converter, I did the opposite, leaving the impeller assembly facing up and placing the cover with o-ring down onto the impeller assembly. It seemed much easier and less likely for parts to fall out. You do have to make sure the o-ring stays in place either way.
Good Luck, hope this solves your leakage issues.
Just one more thing to consider when reassembling your transmission. The video below is quite long, but if you fast forward to about the 2:03:00 time on the video you will come to the section where the converter cover is being installed and this mechanic is using Permatex "Ultra Black" silicone sealer over the o-ring and also onto the mating surfaces of the bolt flange. I did not do this when I reassembled mine, but it might be something to consider. He seems to know quite a bit about the 57 Fordomatic (this video is a complete overhaul).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwenorNpQtY
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2025-06-16 08:27I don't mean to change the subject, but I just noticed in your signature that you have a '58 Ford with a '57 front and rear sheet metal. Is it yellow by any chance?
Partly yellow still a work in progress, 95 Mustang 5.0 HO roller cam 5 sp.
Quote from: oldave57 on 2025-06-16 13:06Just one more thing to consider when reassembling your transmission. The video below is quite long, but if you fast forward to about the 2:03:00 time on the video you will come to the section where the converter cover is being installed and this mechanic is using Permatex "Ultra Black" silicone sealer over the o-ring and also onto the mating surfaces of the bolt flange. I did not do this when I reassembled mine, but it might be something to consider. He seems to know quite a bit about the 57 Fordomatic (this video is a complete overhaul).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwenorNpQtY
Thanks Oldave57 I will watch that and read the manual pages. I can see where the ultra black could be of help. I was told front seal when I bought this and the front and rear seals are dry so I have little doubt it was the converter O-ring, still waiting for it to get here. Oh never thought about balance on the converter but got lucky, I did mark it. I also have a broken shift lever on the tran and was not sure how it was installed inside, simple bolt inside. Video is a great help, thanks again.