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Has anyone looked into, or done, adapting a 90's mustang hydro boost brake setup into the 57's. will it work with the granada disc set up I have?

i have test fitted the booster to the dash.do not have pedals in my test fit ranchero so could not test the pedal fit.the booster does clear the 4.6.am going to try the master cylinder off the 02 mustang.will put in a porportioning valve in,out of a granada.will put in a residual presser valve in the rear brakes.should work i hope 

Yes I have installed one on my ranchwagon . The rod needs to be lengthen . To lengthen the rod you need to cut the end off the rod and then thread the rod on the booster . You will need a threaded coupler and using your rod from your car you will need to cut it to length and thread it then bolt them together .I used lock nuts and lock tight so the rods wont come loose . Use a 1999 and newer booster set up as these are a better unit . I know there is more to do I just don't remember at the moment will try to post a pic of the unit installed tomorrow

pics would be great. thanks...Rich

To bolt the unit onto the firewall you will need to remove the two lower studs on the factory boosters mount. The two top studs on the factory mount go into the two top master cylinders holes in the firewall with no modifications. You need to drill two holes in the mount for bottom bolts to match the lower master Cylinder holes in the firewall ,I made a template with cardboard so I could drill the bracket. The big hole for the master needs to be enlarged . I did this with a 2 inch hole saw ,you will see a dimple just above the big hole of the master and that is were the pilot drill of the hole saw needs to be to enlarge the hole.

one more time

are you using drum brakes with that master cylinder?

I was wondering the same thing. something I read on the abs website led me to wonder if hydraulic boosters had enough psi to stop our heavy cars. abs's unit puts out 1300-1600 psi (don't know the reason for the wide range) with disc brakes, they said, needing 1500psi...Rich

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2010-05-20 21:24
I was wondering the same thing. something I read on the abs website led me to wonder if hydraulic boosters had enough psi to stop our heavy cars. abs's unit puts out 1300-1600 psi (don't know the reason for the wide range) with disc brakes, they said, needing 1500psi...Rich

RICH i checked the weights on 2000-2004 mustang gt.they are about 3400 to 3500 lbs.very similar to the 57 fords.so the booster should work   

  Yes I am running disc brakes with the unit with no problems . This booster was used by ford on 4 wheel disc cars so they will make all the pressure you will need to stop .

Quote from: dgasman on 2010-05-25 11:54
  Yes I am running disc brakes with the unit with no problems . This booster was used by ford on 4 wheel disc cars so they will make all the pressure you will need to stop .

are you running 4 wheel disc or disc front drum rear?

front disc, rear drums from a 71 ltd wagon

Rich,
I am running 4 wheel disc with hydro boost so far work great. I driven down street & moved car around the house. Had to modify the rod length.

Dgasman...thanks for the pics and info.I added it to my shopping list.

I Have a booster and mounting bracket for 57 Wagon fitts well I will send picks

dgasman: I'm going to my parts yard Saturday to pull the windshield wiper system off a 97 mustang, which also has the hydroboost setup on it which I can probably get cheap because it's going into the crusher next week. You had recommended a 99 or newer unit because they were a better setup. Is there very much difference between the two years? Like everyone else, I like to save a few bucks when I can, but if the 99's are that much better I'll wait.

Yes the 99 and newer system is the better system , if I remember right the booster has a little bigger piston and a larger master cylinder . I bought mine off eBay for around $90  compleat . Try to buy the booster and master together  because the master is expensive by itself .
I to like to save money (I'm cheep)  :002:

I picked up a hydro-booster/master setup today in Oklahoma city (150.) complete Not as good a deal as dgasman's ebay deal but it was there and in good shape and no shipping.. It's off an '01 mustang GT. I was wondering what function the electrical connection on the bottom of the fluid cannister had. I found out '99 thru 04 are all the same, and only came in v-8 mustangs...although I can't imagine there are a whole lot of sixes around anyways. Thanks for all your input guys...it makes my life alot easier...Rich

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2010-09-16 21:03
I picked up a hydro-booster/master setup today in Oklahoma city (150.) complete Not as good a deal as dgasman's ebay deal but it was there and in good shape and no shipping.. It's off an '01 mustang GT. I was wondering what function the electrical connection on the bottom of the fluid cannister had. I found out '99 thru 04 are all the same, and only came in v-8 mustangs...although I can't imagine there are a whole lot of sixes around anyways. Thanks for all your input guys...it makes my life alot easier...Rich

the electrical connection on the bottom of the canister is a low brake fluid sensor.the hydro i am using is off a 02.

Thanks for the info Gary. I guess I could have figured that one out if I had thought about it being where it's at. I was looking at the assembly this morning trying to figure out the best way to clean it up and make it pretty, how far it could be disassembled for repaint, etc., and I noticed the canister was a little loose. Does anyone know how the cannisters are attached to the body? It looks like it may just be a push on.Also, if Gary or someone else could give me a rundown on how they operate, and what the different components are I'd sure appreciate it.
I am assuming, unlike the traditional seperate booster/master setup, this is a combined booster/master ( the component closest to the firewall) and the part the fluid cannister sits on is a type of chamber which is sort of an extention of the master cylinder??? or do I have that guess all wrong and the part under the cannister is the master cylinder???

Rich,the hydro boost is the part that bolts to the firewall,the master cylinder bolts to it.if you are careful,you can pull the plastic reservoir off the master cylinder body.it is mounted in grommets.the boost comes from presser the power steering pump supplys.it stores extra presser in a accumulator so you have 2 more stops if you loose presser for any reason.if you have any more questions,just ask and i will try and answer them 

my car has granada discs up front and will have larger drums in back. I got the mustang proportioning valve with the unit. Can I use it or do I need something else? Gary...I noticed you were going to use a proportioning valve from a Granada. Dgasman: on the physical mounting of the unit, in your pics it looks like you mounted the unit level instead of at the upward angle that the mounting plate would position it. I didn't get to see the unit in the mustang so I don't know if the unit is suppose to be level or angled up as the shape of the fluid canister would suggest. If you mounted yours level, did you modify the mounting plate to accomplish that? I'll also have some "hookin' it up" questions down the road..such as the steering pump lines...does it run thru the hydro boost to the steering box or do you need seperate lines for each coming off the pump?

the mustang proportioning valve is set up for 4wheel disc brakes.you need one for disc/drum,granada will work,even a mid 80's crown vic should work.the hydro boost sits at a angle,the master reservoir is level on top.also the hydro boost needs to be at a upward angle to clear the 4.6.as a side note i am using the complete brakes out of the versailles,front[same as granada except for ball joint size]the disc brake rear end and proportion valve and the mustang booster.you should put a residual check valve in the line to the rear brakes so the mustang master will work 

Rich ,

My booster is mounted with the upward tilt and I too am using a Granada proportioning valve . For running the lines to the booster it goes to the booster then to the power steering box/rack but there are two return lines one from the booster and one from the box/rack.

This is interesting! I never considered this option. It's my sons project and he's 1500 miles away. He has the enthusiasm but not the experience with these things. He likes the "old school" Billet proof look. I'm wondering if the P/S pump needs to be changed? The donor car came with the 69 ford style pump. A buddy I grew up with now has a body shop in Orange, Ca about 2 blocks from ABS Brake. He's attending the Mooneyes Reunion with him tomorrow and is going to try to get me a better deal on the parts. Speedway Auto has the dual 8" booster/master setup for 179.00 but I'm unsure of the brackets. My friend has ABS Brakes and steering box in the 57 Ranchero he is building but I'm not sure if they're installed yet. He traded body work for the parts from ABS.

I know this is a old post but trying to keep the info together. Just bought a hydroboost setup for my wagon. When doing the swap does the 57 pedal ratio (location of pin on brake pedal) work ok. Ive read where on some cars they relocate the pin.

OEM pin location should be fine.  I use Granada fronts and SVO/Explorer rears with manual bias valve.  All the brakes you'll ever need short of roadracing.  Easy pedal effort.  I stayed with all Saginaw...pump, steering, and hydraulic booster.  Since I have a manual transmission, I circulate the PS oil through the automatic transmission cooler in the radiator.

Gary...Talk to me about thoase Saginaw hydraulic boosters. What are they  off of? It sure looks a whole lot better, cleaner look than the Mustang set up I was planning on using.

Later model Mustang hydraulic booster is pretty much the same thing...just a newer version.  Ford used the Saginaw system on the '70s Lincolns (GM used these boosters on many pickups).  Since I'm using many '70s Lincoln parts (460), it was simply easier.  Brackets and pulleys are harder to match to the block than booster stuff.  If I were doing a 4.6, I would stay with the late model Mustang stuff with the correct pump and brackets for the engine.  Metric lines, coolers and boosters are readily available.  I think you are already using Mustang column and peddle support so the booster and master will bolt right on.  You would then have a matching system with the pump, brackets, lines, cooler, booster, master, and peddle.  Depending on the rack used, you may have flow or pressure issues with only the rack.  I would be surprised if your rack requirements don't match the pump pressure/flow.  I am very pleased with this brake system.  With big valve overlap, there is no vaccum at low RPM but I still have great brakes.  This is one of the best brakes systems I have ever driven.

Awesome...thanks for the info.
I am using a Mustang column, but I adapted it to the oem '57 bracket and pedal ass'y. When I did that, I hadn't made the final decision on the 4.6, so I never even thought about trying to adapt the Mustang pedal bracket, probably wasn't even thinking of not being able to use a std. booster at that time. I may have some issues to resolve mating the booster up to that...we'll see.

I used a mid '70s Lincoln support modified on the dash end to fit the '65 Thunderbird dash.  I used the '57 pedals.  I also used a piece of Lincoln firewall for the booster pattern.  If you modified your firewall for a four bolt booster pattern, it will likely fit.

Well, almost a year later, and I'm at the point where I need to start this pretty soon. Last fall I saw a tri-five chevy at a show that had a much neater looking setup, the reason being, aside from having a more traditional master cylinder,  his installer flipped the boost portion of the assembly upside down so the hose connections were coming out underneath the booster instead of on top. I'm wondering if this is a posibility with the Mustang units?
Rereading this thread, I've got a few questions. Dgasman's info in particular for me is going to be really helpful. I'm going to repost one of his photos here because it will make my "where do these hose go?" question easier as each of his hoses are of a different material/color
So...where do these hoses go? Dgasman...are you running power R & P steering?

It is a pressurized system so there is no upside down.  I flipped mine to clear the valve cover years ago and it works excellent.

OK...excellent.. I'm trying to figure out what that cannister type thing is attached to your upper side panel.

Rich,

I am running a Borgeson box but it will still plumb the same way.

The lighter blue hose is the return line and goes back to the pump.

The darker blue hose is the press hose from the pump.

The black hose is the press hose to the box/ rack.

Then the box/ rack return hose back to the pump .

Fantastic..and quick..thanks a ton, saves my lazy butt a ton of research. What do you think about flipping the booster over? I know access to the line connections will be more difficult, but I'm thinking it would sure clean up the compartment a bunch. Thanks again.
oops..another question...how did you handle the two return lines to the pump, and did your pump have a remote reservoir?
I need to take a close look at the oem pump/lines setup to figure out what was on the car before I disassembled it from the front clip/rack to pull the engine.

Rich,

You could flip the booster but you are limited with the master Cylinder you have because the bolts are at 11:00 / 5:00 position. You would only be able to do a 180 flip. Then there is the locating groove in the mount and booster you would have to modify  or make a new mount. If you wanted the bolts at the 9:00/ 3:00 position you would need a new master and make a new mount.

For the return lines I used the reservoir from a f350 ford truck it has the provisions for two return hose in it. I'm not sure witch ps pump you have but I would look at a mustang reservoir of the same year to see how ford did it.

I know people tie the two return lines together but I have read where some have had problems with this, to much fluid from the two into the one line.

Good thinking....I'll have to make a trip to the local yard to check out the Mustang reservoirs. It would make life simpler if I could just swap reservoirs. I made a sketch of what I think is the correct routing. based on what you told me earlier....have a look, see what you think

that looks right but I wouldnt run the cooler on the pressure side of the plumbing . I dont think they are rated for that PSI . All coolers I have seen from the factory have been on the return side.

Thank you....the return line thru the cooler was my original thinking....I changed it on the advise of a local friend who said he didn't think there would be enough pressure on the return  to run it thru the cooler(which didn't make sense to me..it's a closed system, it's got to keep circulating).. He also thought it would be better to cool the fluid before it got to the booster. I thought what difference does it make when it gets cooled as long as it does. This is why I get second opinions, and third, etc. Additionally, I was almost 100% sure the Mark viii oem setup ran the return thru the cooler. I was going to try and find an assembled mark to double check tommorrow.

I don't have a picture of the complete routing but this picture shows the back of the Saginaw (ham bone) pump with two returns.  Since the steering (rack) produces more heat than the brake booster, I ran the rack return line though the radiator's automatic transmissions cooling tank and then back to the pump reservoir.  The two return port Saginaw reservoir is unique to hydraulic power booster vehicle but will interchange with single port Saginaw ham bone pumps.  Very common on GM pickups and vans. 

Don't run the cooler on the pressure side!

Red and blue was the Aero Quip colors that made them easily recognized.  I am slowly changing mine out to black or brushed stainless but I am NOT throwing the red/blue ones out.  They are just TOO expensive to toss.

I read an article not too long ago about a household product that removed the dye from the fittings. From the article I gathered the coloring wasn't anodize as you would expect, but something easily removed with the right product. I'll have to see if I can find it again. May have been you tube.It's gonna be in the 70's today..good day for a romp at the local salvage yards to see if I can find a 2 return reservoir.
The red/blue works on your car with the blue engine block, red frame....Mine's black and red, trying like crazy to avoid the blue.

DGASMAN: does this look like the reservoir you used? If it does, I'd sure like to see a pic of your install. Looks big in the illustration, but hard to tell.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OEM-POWER-STEERING-FLUID-RESERVOIR-FORD-EXCURSION-F250-F350-F450-F550-SD-/360644857900?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2004%7CMake%3AFord%7CModel%3AF-350+Super+Duty&hash=item53f81bd02c&vxp=mtr
Mustangs did not use a reservoir with two returns. They actually had a "T" type fitting below the reservoir. Unfortunatly, it can only be ordered from Ford with the hose that runs to the booster, 10-14 day delivery, 125., but the real downside is it has the quickchange fittings. So, Mustang components are out. Lots of aftermarket billet stuff available, but none I could find with 2 returns. Having a billet one made with an additional return is a posibility...I guess all I'd need is to have another nipple welded in.

Rich,

I am using the round ford pump ,there it a pic of it a few post up . Does your car use a remote reservoir ? If so that looks like a good option . Don't you live in the land of trucks ? Look at a car dealer around you to see if they a truck of that vintage pop the hood and see how big that reservoir is . I have been known to do stranger things than that.

Another good idea..couldn't find one in the salvage yards. Yes my pump has a remote reservoir, I have no idea why I assumed yours did. When searching ebay for reservoirs, I found the Ford trucks were mostly of the vacumm booster variety, so there would be no need for a reservoir with dual return lines. Kinda like the Mustang..hard to find..the only mustangs that had the Hydroboost were the Cobras and Machs with the DOHC version.
Thanks for the reply

Saginaw hydraulic brake booster article in the April 2014 Popular Hot Rodding.

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll pick up a copy. Hope the article is supportive..I just spent 300. for hose and fittings.

So the $150 hose kit is a deal!

Not sure what kit your referencing, but actually the 300 I mentioned included some fuel line fittings. I spent 100 for banjo fittings for the hydroboost and rack, and 100ish for 12 feet of ptfe hose, and also got two s.s. weld in 6an fittings so I can adapt a ps reservoir for the two returns. I still need to find a right-sized reservoir to adapt, get a cooler with AN fittings, and buy 10 areoquip 6an straight fittings. I'm going to have a total of 6 lines on my boost/rack/reservoir/cooler system.

PLUMBING!  Most overlooked cost on the build budget.  Fuel tank, overflow tanks, reservoir tanks, coolers, expansion tanks, gauges, brake light switch, roll control...list just goes on and on with tons of adapters and connection fittings.

Yup...I definetly overlooked the cost on mine. I ordered the 10 fittings and a new cooler with an fittings from Summit last night..another 110....for the hydroboost/PS. These pics are what I've got in the last week or so.
The last pic is what I picked up in Lake Havasu..going clockwise,at 1 o'clock are adapters for a Ford style quick change fuel filter to AN6, at 3 o'clock are the banjo fittings for the hydroboost,at5 o'clock are the weld in adapters for modifying a reervoir for 2 returns,at 7 o'clock are 6an/37 degree nuts for the hard fuel line, at 9 o'clock are 3/8x3/8 line clamps, at11 0'clock are banjo fittings for the cavalier rack.
I won't need the adapters for the reservoir, as I found a guy who will make me one with what I need. I'll do a post on that on the 4.6 install thread.

When I was looking at stainless brake lines, I was appalled at the price of each connection compared to steel.  The nuts and ferrules for each stainless connection was five bucks....extra cost, workability, and new tools for the line and the flares was one thing and then add the cost of over $10 for hardware for each line.  Well, I just passed on that one for now.  Later, when my ship comes in, I can come back and redo the brake lines with stainless.

Banjo fittings on the Caviler rack?  Aren't those o-ring to AN adapters?

The banjo fittings are a soft washer seal on the machined surface around the 16/18mm holes to a 6AN. Same with the hydroboost fittings. I may regret it down the line, but I also went with the steel/plated areoquip swivel hose ends.

The rack connections are cramped so it will be interesting to see if the banjo fittings help.

The port closest to the frame is still going to be tight, but just eyeballing the area, I'm thinking I can just angle the banjo fitting in towards the engine 10 degrees or so and get it past everything with just a straight hose fitting. I'll know before too long...my shoulder is giving me problems again, or still, so I can't start my garage reroofing too soon. I'll just have to work on the '57 for a while longer!

When using the hydroboost in conjunction with a R & P setup, should the power steering reservoir be vented or non-vented?
Edit just to keep info together...I had a stainless reservoir custom made with two 6AN return fittings, vented, baffled, and the bottom outlet fitting machined to match the metric rubber feed hose going to the pump. jac Specialties on ebay. 125 + ship. part, service, communication was excellent 

Vented with or without.  That fluid will expand and contract as it heats and cools during operation.

Thanks....I do recall not to long ago somebody posting about either the rack or the hydroboost self bleeding.

Quote from: gasman826 on 2014-03-16 09:30
The rack connections are cramped so it will be interesting to see if the banjo fittings help.

A little Banjo music.....
It was hard to get a good shot, but these are pics of the Banjo fitting with an-6 to #6 teflon/ss hose aeroquip fittings temp. in place on the rack and pinion. Both will just come straight up no problem.
Man my car needs a good cleaning.

OK..got to work on the hydroboost for a while yesterday. I cut the eyelet off the pushrod and got it ready to thread. I enlarged the hole in the firewall, cut off the two lower studs, trimmed the lower part of the mounting plate that was hitting my steering column cover, cleaned off the undercoating in the mounting area so I've got a good solid mounting surface.
Now the inevitable questions...not being sure exactly what happens when the hydroboost has fluid applied to it under pressure, I don't know if the pushrod as the unit sits in a relaxed state is all the way out. With that in mind, can I modify the brake pedal pushrod to fit now, or do I have to wait until the engine is running?
Were you guys that threaded the pushrods for connection with a connecting nut able to do it with just a good die? My cheapo die set is not going to cut it (pun intended)....instead of spending bucks for a good adjustable die set, I'm leaning towards drilling out one end of a 2" connecting nut to slip over the hydroboost pushrod and welding it on, then buying an already threaded adjustable pushrod for the brake pedal

I decided to go the route described in the above post for the pushrod. While I'm waiting for the pushrod to arrive, I've got the hydroboost painted and mounted temporarily so I can make up the lines to the ps pump, rack, and reservoir.
Thinking ahead a little to what I was going to need for the brake lines, I discovered the oem Mustang brake lines are metric...oh joy!!...another "how do I adapt this?" problem to figure out.
I don't know if the metric system uses the same style of fittings, inverted flare,an, etc...so I guess I need to find out what fitting it actually is so I can look for an adapter. I assume Dgasman found one..looking at his pic there seems to be a brass adapter screwed into the master cylinder brake line outlets. Gary/Gasman826 is using an older unit, so I'm guessing his was not metric to begin with.

I confirmed the ports are #10 and #12 with a bubble flare. After driving aroung the area's local shops and coming up empty, I did what I should have done in the first place...called Pure Choice Motorsports. They make both size adapters to convert to a standard 3/8-24 inverted flare. $27. for the pair including shipping.

bubble flare one end of the line for master cylinder with inverted double flare on the other end.  I think the adopter route you're taking is the better choice.

And I had no way to do a bubble flare. One of my friends says the aftermarket metric brake lines are made with sae sized tubing, not metric. What he does is buy a premade line, cuts one metric end off and flares it for the 3/8-24 inverted flare fitting. Only problem with that is apparently our local source for those bubble type flared lines is no longer carrying them.

Dgasman...or anyone else with a Mustang hydroboost that would be comparable to my '01 unit.... how much stroke is there on the pushrod from fully released to pushed in hard?
I haven't had much time at all to work on the car in the past few weeks. The adjustable pushrod unit I bought isn't going to be much help at all due to the short space to work with. LOL...it's almost as if somebody had sat down and tried to figure out how to design that unit so I couldn't use it. Almost every component is too long or too short or a thread I can't find local mating parts for.
The Hydroboost housing for the pushrod actually extends in past the firewall about 3 inches leaving only about another 3 inches to make the adaptation to the brake pedal. I sure have a hard time with this simple stuff not having machine shop access...frustrating....I'm worried if I weld on a connector nut it is going to interfere with the pushrod being able to be pushed in enough.

I got answers to,  or figured out all the questions I had asked about above. The hydroboost is in, the pushrod is done after a few trial adjustments. There is almost too short of distance to work with to make the pushrod adjustable..at least the way I made the rod. Had I to do it over again, I'd probably have a 1/2" steel spacer plate plasma cut. Putting that between the firewall and the boost unit would add enough length to the pushrod to make it simper to make.

Gary/Gasman...I finally got the lines run from the hydroboost , including the ones to the rack. Those banjo fittings worked quite well. With the cavalier rack, and the banjos installed, the line  closest to the frame has to be installed first. If you do the engine side one first, there's no room for a wrench for the second one.The pic shows the feed and return lines heading down to the banjos, which you can't see in the pic, but it's a straight unobstructed shot.

Super!!  I won't change mine but would go banjo next time.  I have a fuel rail to firewall clearance issue that banjo fittings might cure.

Found out some interesting stuff on these Mustang boosters. Talked at length to a '56 owner who just installed a 4.6dohc and used a Mustang booster as well. However..the Mustang he pulled his from was newer than my '02 donor car (he told me the year, can't remember), and the 3 hydraulic lines are on the bottom side of the booster rather than the top. I asked if he had rotated the booster, he said no, that was the oem position. So, if anyone is thinking about a hydroboost, do a little research and you can find one like his. Makes for a cleaner lookimg installation.
By the way, he said the performance of the system with the hydroboost was "phenominal".

1974 Bendix version mounted up side down so the lines are on the bottom.  Years ago, I read a magazine article that mentioned up side down installation.  Mines been that way for several years with no ill effects.  Super brake assist with plenty of valve cover clearance.

I couldn't do that with mine because the compressed air cannister is oem top right, so rotating the boost 180* put the cannister into the valve cover. ...edit: correction, it was the distribution block on mine that would have hit the valve cover if I tried to rotate the boost. I'm noticing that air cannister is on different locations with different years as well. I've seen the Mustangs with that cannister top right and top left. Anyway, as I mentioned, there are boost units with the oem fittings already on the bottom side as I mentioned. This is a pic of a '55 note the arrow pointing to the oem banjo fittings. As clean as the install was on this car, I was surprised to see that clutter of fittings and adapters and elbows that could have been eliminated with the metric to an6 fittings from Pure Choice Motorsports. Sorry for the poor pic..too much glare.

As some of you know, I've had zero luck getting a vacuum boost unit to work properly in my car.  I've now got power steering so I am also considering using the Mustang Hydro Boost unit to give me power brakes. 

Since my knowledge about this subject is slightly above zero, I want to make sure that I don't head down another troubled path. 

I looked at the Rockauto site for prices and information about the boost unit.  I found that starting in 2005 Ford went back to a vacuum boost unit in the Mustangs.  I even looked at my 2013 Explorer and it is also a vacuum unit.  Anyway, a new hydro boost unit is $166 from Rockauto.  In their pictures, it appears that it has an angled bracket so that it would look like Rich Muise's picture below. 

Below, Rich notes that there are three hydraulic lines.  I thought that there were just two.  Supply line from the power steering pump, then a line from the boost unit to the power steering gear box.  Is the third line a separate return line from the boost unit back to the power steering pump?

There is also an additional block that the brake lines go to before heading to the, in my case, calipers/wheel cylinders.  The newer vehicles are all disk/disk and I am disk/drum.  Does that make a difference (meaning, can I use the same part that was on the disk/disk car?)

Helpful hints much appreciated,

Rich

the 3rd line is a return line like you said.i put in a disc/drum porpotioning valve,hooked to the disc/disc master cylinder and a 10 lbs residual check valve in the rear line[after the porpotioning valve] for the drum brakes

Thanks for the information.

I'm wondering if there is any reason that I could not use the master cylinder that I have now.  It's designed for a disk/drum car and has the residual pressure valve built in for the rear brakes.  I may have to modify the mount so that the master sits level.  What do you think?

Rich

you would need to modify the master cylinder/mount to fit.you would also need to make sure the rod pushing on the master cylinder piston is in the correct place

Thanks for the response.  I think I've located a 2001 Mustang in a salvage yard near me.  If this car has the boost unit and a good price for it I'll get that and see what the issues are.  I looked on eBay for the same model as the one I found on the Rockauto.com website.  Prices are all over the place, but not as cheap as Rockauto.  Some of those units are in the $400 - $500 range. 

Rich

The hydroboost units I believe were not an across the board usage item for any of the Ford vehicles. It depended on the motor that was in the car and thus the space problem creating the need for the hydroboost. I think the Mustangs that had 6 cyl engines used the traditional vacumn booster. I'm not even sure what or why some trucks had them, as there was no space problem...posibly a problem with a particular engine having low vacum output??
Something you need to check on in the hydoboost threads...it was about '01 that Mustang changed to a larger bore master cylinder, and it is that larger bore you need. I just don't remember for sure what year it was. Mine came off an '02 GT mustang. I think '01 is ok, just not 100% sure.
Look at the mounting bolt pattern on the hydroboost for the master cylinder...two bolts, top and bottom...not on the sides as most traditional masters. I would buy a matched set and not try to fidle with it. As Gary mentioned, I think your asking for additional problems. I can understand your thoughts on it...those masters for the hydroboost are kinda ugly.
I had a difficult time getting the rod made/installed for the hookup to the oem brake pedal, but I think I remember reading Gary's install post, and he had a better solution.
I don't know how much of the great stopping my car has is a result of the hydoboost, but I sure am happy with the brakes in general.
Mustangs had a propotioning valve block on the brake lines. I'm guessing that's the block your talking about. Gar is correct, btw, 3 lines...the third one being a return line. Your power steering also has a return line, so that means you need a power steering reservoir capable of handling two return lines, or you need to figure out an alternative solution. Mustangs used a tee to connect the two returns before going into the reservoir. What you need to do depends on whether or not your PS pump has a built in reservoir, or if you use a remote reservoir. Remotes would be simpler to change to a 2 return reservoir.

Rich,

Thanks for the additional information.  When I looked at the Rockauto site they listed the same master cylinder for 99 and later, but for both pre 99 and 99>04 they list a 1" bore.  Do you know what size (or model number) yours is? 

I looked at 1999 & 2000 for the Mustang V6 and both a vacuum and a hydro boost unit are listed.  I guess it depended on where it was assembled or what was left on the shelf on the day it was screwed together.

I have the Borgeman Saginaw PS pump and it has one inlet for return.  I'll just use the tee method for connecting both return lines.  The supply line to the gear box is going to become surplus.  I'll need a new line from pump to boost unit and boost unit to gear box.  There is a place in town that makes these lines and I hope I can get it fabricated with correct ends so I won't have to use any adapters.

I have a single inlet/outlet proportioning valve in the system now.  I assume that this won't work for the new system.  I will need a unit for disk/drum.  On eBay I've seen them for GM, but not for Ford.  Don't know if this makes a difference or not.

By the way, I don't know who Gary is.  Can you give me a link to the post you are talking about for hooking up the push rod?

Rich 

I am pretty sure Ford trucks with diesel engines used hydro boost power brakes.

Sorry...Gary is Canadian Ranchero. There are several other Gary's here, but he was the one I was referencing...although the other Gary (gasman) has a hydroboost on his as well...just an older setup. I think my bore is 1 1/16.
The Mustang hydroboost are Metric. www.purechoicemotorsports.com makes adapters/ banjo fittings for these if your local guy can't make what you want.
Not sure on the single inlet/outlet you have. My thinking is the adjustable feature is for the rear brakes only anyway...the front brakes actually just run straight thru I believe, so your single unit should work.

Rich,

If the one I am going to look at is 1", and yours is 1-1/16", then you have a net area that is 12.9% larger resulting in a small reduction in hydraulic pressure for the same force applied at the piston.  It sounds like there is plenty of applied force from the hydraulic boost unit.  Is it possible to have too much pressure resulting in "touchy" brakes?  Is there any adjustment short of the installation of a pressure reducing valve?

I am aware of the banjo fittings.  I saw them on several YouTube videos that I watched showing the installation of the hydro boost unit.  They look like a great solution plus they can point in any direction making it easier to make neat connections. 

I've seen in my research that some people have installed these boost units in different orientations without any adverse effects.  However, the way they are installed the Mustangs may work well for my Fairlane. 

As always, I really appreciate having this forum to turn to for advice, suggestions and information.

Rich

Below is what my single line valve looks like. 

the info i have says 99-04 mustang gt have a 1 1/16 master cylinder bore.i am using a aftermarket disc/drum gm proportioning valve,it has a metering valve in it for the front brakes[most disc/drum  proportioning valves with ports for the front brake lines have a metering valve in them,sometimes called combination valves] the metering valve delays presser to the front brakes until the rear brake spring presser is overcome and all 4 brakes apply evenly.with out this metering valve, on light braking you are only using the front brakes 

What he said is correct...I mispoke on the years.

Thanks guys.  Good explanation of what the Proportioning valve is doing. 

Did you guys have to enlarge the hole in the firewall to mount the boost unit?  Did the bolt holes line up or did you have to drill new holes?

I am going to a salvage yard either today or tomorrow.  If the car still has the boost/master cylinder I am going to get it.  Even if I can't use the used units, their cost is less than the credit I will get for sending them in for credit as the core.

In the picture below, you can see two sizes of M/C listed for the Mustang.  1" and 1-1/16".  This is from the Rockauto site.

Rich

if i remember 2 bolt holes line up,but you need to make the firewall hole longer

here is a picture

In the pic Gary posted you will see a dimple right in the center of the area he has chalk marked. You can use that dimple to center a 2"(?) hole saw.
I think I also remembered two of the holes lined up, and two of the studs on the new unit will have to be cut off, then the other two holes corresponding to the inside brake/dash bracket have to be transfered. I think you'll end up with two studs and two bolts.

So guys, it looks to me like you have moved the center line of the master cylinder/push rod up a ways.  Is that true?

Rich

Yes, but not seem to be an issue. I've got a smooth pedal with no binding. Somewhere I posted some pics of the install...haven't found them yet, but I'll keep looking.
DUUUHHH...I just realized this was a thread I started, and what pics I posted were here. I've got more pics if you need to see anything in particular.

I guess what I should have also asked is why?  I assume the hydro boost unit is smaller than a 7" dia. vacuum unit.  However, the 7" vacuum unit needs to be raised about 1.5" when it is installed. 

If one of the Mustangs at the salvage yard near me still has the boost/master cylinder in it, I will pick it up tomorrow.  Having one in hand will be helpful.

Rich

I assume you're asking why we moved the firewall hole to accomadate the different position of the hydroboost's centerline as opposed to moving the bolts.....
First, in my case, it is the easier way to do it and members here had previously done it that way with no issues.
Second is the reason we went to the hydroboost in the first place...we needed as much engine clearance room as posible.

Rich,

I know that you have shoehorned a big engine into that car and from the pictures you have posted, it's a great looking install.

As to the relocation of the center line for the pushrod.  I thought that might bind up, but if you guys are having success, that's all I need to know.  Shortly, I am heading to the salvage yard to see if they have the parts that I want.  The information from you guys will give me an advantage on figuring out what I will be doing.

Rich

Bummer, both Mustangs had vacuum boost units.  One was a v-6, the other did not have an engine. 

Rich

I had no idea there were proportionally so many 6 cyl Mustangs on the road until I started looking for a used hydroboost. I ended up getting mine in Oklahoma City..none to be found in Amarillo area, at least at the time. The place I got it from specialized in used parts for Hi-Po cars...so you know that got the price up. I paid 150. just as a reference.
If we were having this discussion a few weeks ago, I could have checked around town for current availability and brought it up to Colorado if one was found.

Yeah, I would have guessed most would be V-8's too.  However, after looking under the hood in these cars, it would be a real PITA to do anything under the hood.  Makes you appreciate the space we have on the vintage cars.

I can get a rebuilt hydro unit from Rockauto for about $167 and that includes the core charge. 

We just had a rain/hail storm blow through here this afternoon.  3/4" hail so about the only damage here is leaves knocked off.  Some cars may have some damage, but 3/4ths of mine are in the garage.  I don't know if it hailed where my wife works.

Rich

the push rod on the hydroboost is not solid,where it goes into the main body of the hydoboost the push rod has a little ball/socket,that allows the push rod to move up and down as the brake pedal is pushed down 

I noticed the articulation in the pictures.  Do you have a stock engine?

Rich

I'll answer that, lol.........Gary is installing a 4.6 dohc/4r70W from a Mark VIII. Sound familiar?. A little old background...Way back when he(Canadian Ranchero) actually had a Ranchero, he was setting up/mocking up a 4.6 dohc into a parts car to work out the bugs/details, and then was going to do that swap into the Ranchero.. Gary had done tons of research and was the one who convinced me It could be done and I could do it...so I started it, then he disappeared for a few years LEAVING ME TO HAVE TO THINK ON MY OWN...the horrors!!, lol. Anyway, the wagon he now has is getting what the Ranchero was to have.
I guess "Canadian Wagon" doesn't flow as smooth as Canadian Ranchero

Rich,

Thanks for the update.  Before I cut any holes, I will see where it fits best. 

Also, as far as I know the hydro boost unit can be used in any orientation.  I am still considering rotating it 90 degrees and then using the master cylinder that I have now.  I'll have to see how close the mounting bolt pattern is.

Rich

Flipped my hydraulic booster upside down years ago.  The master cylinder still has to point up but the booster is under pressure and doesn't care which way is up.  The rotation moved the accumulator to the outboard side giving move 460 valve cover clearance.  My booster has a little notch cast into the bottom side face where the master cylinder attaches.  Since there is no gasket for the master cylinder to booster joint, moisture could get it.  Notch allows moisture and condensation drainage.  I put a little dab of gasket sealer in the original notch and ground a little notch in the new bottom side.  Overkill??  Probably.

Gasman,

Thanks for the confirmation on orientation.  One thing that I've also noticed is that the boost unit mount seems to be point up at a shallow angle.  And, the master cylinder is made on that same angle.  I've anticipated that if I rotate the boost unit 90 degrees that I will also have to modify the mounting bracket.  Is yours constructed with the angled mounting bracket?

Rich

My booster is old...'76 Lincoln.  The original application mounted the booster squarely on the firewall.  My installation on the '57 is square and perpendicular to the firewall (picture 1 & 2).  I have to confess...I cut the Lincoln firewall (about a 9" patch) and welded it into the '57 firewall.  I also cut the '57 peddle support and grafted the Lincoln peddle support onto the firewall end.  I also modified the dash contact end of the '57 peddle support to mimic the peddle support of a '65 Thunderbird donor car to attach to the '65 Thunderbird dash.  Oh ya', the support was also modified for the installation of a Lincoln steering column.  So...my '57 firewall and peddle support are hybrids of the cars the components came from.  I don't make late model upgrades fit my '57, I make my '57 mimic the donor cars' connections and fittings.  I confirm the angles and heights so there are no misalignments or binds and have correct pedal ratios and angle through the swing.

On another note, the Lincoln master cylinder bore was 1-1/8".  The '57 has Granada spindles and disc brakes and the Explorer setup on the rear with a Wilwood manual adjustable bias valve.  This combo gives great brake performance.  I have changed out the OEM master cylinder because the master was 40 years old.  I thought it was due and new Wilwood looks nicer!!!!  My logic was if this brake setup stopped the 5400 lb Lincoln, it should stop my 3500 lb '57 really well...and it does.  Another issue solved by the hydraulic booster is the overlap on the cam is so great to produce 750hp on the 460 there is little to no vacuum to make a vacuum booster work at all.

Holy Crapoly - 750 horses.  Fly me to the moon.  That's more than triple what the factory sent out.  I'd be dead or in jail by now if I had that much power under my foot.

I like the look of the boost unit you are using.  With a little research, the Cardone 52-7076 or 52-7077 are on the 1975 - 1979 full size Ford/Lincoln/Mercury cars.  Readily available in parts houses, but not in salvage yards, at least not in the Denver area.  The slightly larger bore (1.125" vs 1.0625") will reduce system pressure by about 10% for a given force applied to the brakes, but not likely make any difference in use.

Any chance you could give me the center to center measurement for the bolt layout on the master cylinder and the mount to the firewall?  I understand if it's too much trouble.

Thanks,

Rich 

My hydraulic booster will not mount at any angle.  Right side up with the accumulator inboard or upside down with the accumulator outboard.  Another benefit of upside down is the plumbing is on the bottom.  The master cylinder bolt center is 3-1/8"...fairly common.  I think the Wilwood master cylinder bolt pattern is slightly slotted to accommodate 3-1/4".  The booster to firewall pattern is 3-1/4"H and 4-1/4"W.  I think these boosters have been offered in kits for years by custom car aftermarket sites.  Master cylinder, booster, proportioning valve, and install kit $600-900.  Much cheaper to wander the bone yards and shop for your own stuff.

Gasman,

Thanks a bunch for the information. 

I think I can make an adapter plate that can use the existing 4 bolt pattern for the old master cylinder and then mate up with the hydro boost unit.  Using your dimensions, I made a quick sketch to confirm it should work.  The smaller bolt pattern is for the existing layout (I will use a flat head hex drive screw) and the larger bolt pattern, where I show studs sticking out, will mate to the boost unit.

Thanks for your help on this.

Rich

I revised the adapter plate.

Gasman,

A question for you.  I have the power boost unit now.  After examination, I am not going to use the adapter plate.  It appears that the integral push rod that goes from the brake pedal to the boost unit is the right length right out of the box.  I will drill the firewall for the boost unit bolt pattern.

My issue is the push rod inside of the boost unit that activates the master cylinder.  The instructions in the box show a push rod with a spring on it.  Since I intend to use my 1967 m/c, I don't have this rod and even if I did, it would likely be the wrong length.  Is this a solid rod between the piston in the boost unit all the way to where it pushes the piston on the m/c?  Hard to tell in the sketch (see below.)  I can make a new push rod, but I am not sure what the function of the spring is.

Thanks,

Rich

Gasman,

Disregard.  I think I figured it out.  I found this on the internet.

Rich

"The spring and rod are an important part in the system; the spring puts tension on the booster piston so it releases the pressure on the rod and doesn?t stay engaged to the master and drag the brakes when you let off the brakes. The disc on the inner end keeps the rod centered in the booster rear cup and the retainer of course keeps the spring in but also centers the rod to line up with the master cylinder indent. If the rod were to drop out on either end it could cause your brakes to apply and not release in a panic stop of just plain fail. So if you?re fabricating these pieces remember these dimensions are for a 2001 Silverado 1500 with 4 wheel disc brakes, the Hydroboost and master cylinder are for the same truck. I have no idea if the rod and spring is the same for any other year or model truck. What I have found is that the rod is a .065? longer than the distance between the two rod cups. So it puts a little preload on the master thereby insuring that the rod doesn?t drop out.

Rod diameter 0.34? with a length of 3.16? it appears to be as hard as a grade 8 bolt. The rear spring seat disc is .970? diameter with a thickness of .040? and placed .25? from the inner end and it is made of plastic. The spring is 4? long and .945 diameter. The wire thickness is .073. It feels like a 20 ? 25 Lbs. spring tension."

Just for the info, what vehicle did you purchase the boost unit for? My unit from the Mustang was not the correct length for the connecting rod to the pedal, but I never considered the fact maybe the pedal assembly location with a little work might have been moved forward or backward to compensate. Keep us posted on that connection please.
I guess I never read what your reason is for the  changing of the master from a boost style to the traditional. Is it because of the appearance, the fact that you already have a new traditional one? Along those lines I have to wonder why Ford didn't use the traditional style, at least in the later years.

Rich,

This boost unit is from a 1977 LTD.  As far as I can tell, 1975-1979 full size Ford/Lincoln/Mercury are all the same. 

I just measured from the outside face of the firewall to the center of the bolt on the M/C link and it is right at 6", same as on the hydro boost unit.

I think you know that I bought a 7" vacuum boost unit with special bracket for my car 3 years ago.  Twice I tried to get this pile of parts to work correctly.  I could not.  To the credit of the seller, they were willing to work with me to get this working, but now that I have power steering, I can use the hydro boost unit.  As of right now, all that I have to do to get this working is figure out what to do about the pushrod that goes from the boost unit to the master cylinder.  Of course I still need to see what I need to do for hoses too.  The supply hose from the PS pump is long enough to go to the boost unit.  I have not verified if the hose end connection is correct.  I will need to get a hose from the boost unit to the PS gear box and a return line.  I am mounting the boost unit upside down so that the hydraulic connections will be on the under side.

I am also wanting to use my 1967 Galaxie master cylinder.  I don't think that will be a problem.  Hoses won't be a problem and the pushrod is the only thing that I have to either source or make.  I'm still working on that issue.

Here is where I got some of the information on the boost unit push rod.  http://thehollisterroadcompany.com/hydroboost.html

He gives pretty detailed information.  However, given a choice, I would prefer to source a part rather than make one from scratch. 

Rich

Is this the pin you are looking for ?  if it is send me your address and I will mail it to you

Gasman,

Holy Smokes!! This is exactly the part I am looking for.  I would be glad to pay postage and for the part.  I've been all over the internet and around town this afternoon.  I even went to a local Ford dealer.  He took my information and said he would have to dig out the microfiche reader to check, but he was not hopeful.

Richard Kuberski
6359 Holman Ct.
Arvada, Co. 80004

Thanks,

Rich

Its in the mail and Mr. postman says you should have it by Thursday. Don't worry about the postage , glad I was able to help..

Kent

Kent,

Thanks.  After searching for this part, I was convinced it was made of unobtanium. 

I appreciate you help with this.

Rich

Wow, that's pretty awesome!! Way to go Kent...gotta be worth at least a few applauds!

Rich..I'll be anxious to hear how this works out....if it does, I may eventually change because I like the old style masters much better.
I'm not sure if I recorded the connecting rod on the Mustang unit, but I'm sure it wasn't 6".
1977 LTD... you're not going to have to mess with metric adapters either.

Rich,

These hydraulic fittings come in so many sizes that I don't know what they are.  I will pull my supply line to the new gear box and try that on the boost unit.  If it fits great, if not, I'll just haul it all to the hose shop and have them make what I need.

As to selecting 1977 for the boost unit, that is in the middle of the range of what I found in my research.  That is, 1975 - 1979 full size Ford/Lincoln/Merc all about the same.

The length of the rod from the brake pedal to the m/c may be longer than 6", after all, it has to go into the m/c.  My measurement was from the back of the m/c (which is visible from under the dash) to the center of the bolt.  That equates to the measurement on the new boost unit in the picture below.  As near as I can tell, the push rod on the boost unit is not removable or adjustable.  In that regard, I just got lucky.

Without the help from the part from Kent I was going to have to try to fabricate the rod from the boost unit to the m/c.  I was not able to find one in a local salvage yard (I think all of the cars of that vintage have gone to the crusher already) or from any parts supplier.  I will make measurements and take good pictures just in case someone wants the information.

As many of us know, without this site, we would be fumbling around in the dark.  Kent is the second member to offer me a part for free.  Years ago, someone gave me the windshield washer tips, another item that I could not find. 

In the pictures below, I installed the body of an old m/c so you can get an idea of how it will look.

Rich

I like the look. When everything is said and done, post a list of part numbers if you would. Just guessing, I'll bet the connecting rod is 1-2" longer than the later Mustang version's.

Question:  from the looks of the hydroboost unit itself it appears quite heavy.  Without reinforcement or bracing to the firewall is there any concern about flex to the firewall? 

Yes, it is heavy.  Mounting it will capture not only the firewall, but the bracket that holds the brake pedal.   If there is still some flex, I have considered adding a brace from one of the bolts on the m/c to an as yet unidentified part of the frame or lower part of the firewall.

Rich

Weight will not be a factor, they're not that heavy. The firewall itself is pretty strong, but just as a master cylinder would, it bolts thru the brake pedal bracket as Rich said. Maybe if someone were really sanitizing their firewall and removing the spot welded, butted flange it might be an issue.

I've got the master cylinder out and doing a test fit.  First impressions are trouble.  It's very close to the exhaust manifold and the return and supply line may interfere.  It's also very close to the gear shift.  The push rod is also long by about 3/8" of an inch, but I can easily deal with that, if that were the only problem.  Break time and thinking time.

By the way, it cannot go in the position where the hoses are on top.  Then the protruding cylinder really interferes with the manifold.

Rich 

Right now, I am pretty disappointed.  I will look at this again, but for it to work, I will have to move the boost unit as high as I can.  This may cause problems with the angle of the push rod to the boost unit.  If I can raise it that will eliminate the problem with the shift linkage, not sure about the return line or supply line.

Stay tuned.

Rich

That I'm aware of, everybody that's done one has raised it from the original master height....are you saying your disapointed because you have to do that, or your disappointed because you have to raise it higher than previously discussed?

I know that those of you with replacement engines had to raise the units.  At this point I am not sure that I will be able to install the supply and return lines.  Super close to the exhaust manifold even when raised and it can only be installed with the hydraulic lines on the bottom side.  I do have concerns about the angle from the boost unit to the attachment point on the pedal. 

Just whining a little, I'll get over it, I hope.

Rich

Just a thought...wouldn't Banjo fittings help get the hoses away from the steering and exhaust?
Enlarging the hole in the firewall was the easiest way to get the (Mustang) boost unit to match up to the mounting hole pattern in the firewall and pedal bracket. I'm not even sure when I did mine if I knew if I actually needed the height to clear the engine.

Rich,

Car issues are on the back burner until Saturday.  Just wondering, was the angle of the pushrod from the brake pedal to the boost unit a problem when you raised the boost unit?

Banjo fittings may well be in my future.  This will be tight, but I figure that if I don't have an issue with the angle to the boost unit, I can go up around 1-1/2".

I'll see how it goes on Saturday.  My wife just retired and I have more "help" in figuring out what I am doing each day.  However, Thursday is still my volunteer day at the Colorado RR Museum.

Take care,

Rich 

No issues at all with the connecting rod.
As I mentioned previously, the easiest way to enlarge the hole is to use the dimple in the firewall to pilot a 2" hole saw.
www.purechoicemotorsports.com has banjo metric to AN adapter fittings...I assume they also have the Banjos when you don't need the metric conversion.??.
The Mustang unit has two larger inlet/outlets and one small one. Pure Choice does not make the banjo for the small size port...so that may be an issue.

Kent,

Just wanted to let you that I got your generous gift and it is a perfect fit.  Thanks, a lot, I really appreciate it.

Rich, I just used the dimple as a center hole for a 1-1/4" hole saw which will give me all the vertical raise that I can get. It's also big enough for the boss on the back of the boost unit to fit through.

I've done a test fit and I can get clearance on the supply line.  The return line will be close and I am considering looking for a 90 degree fitting that I can use there, or to silver solder a piece of steel tubing on the return line fitting that I can turn away from the exhaust manifold.  That will get the hose away from the worst of the heat.  I will also have to put a very slight up angle on the whole assembly.  Otherwise the push rod will bind against the housing when the brake pedal is applied.  Bottom line is that it appears that I will be able to get this assembly to work.

Tomorrow, I'm helping a guy that is about 8 years older than I am put in a PS pump in a 1960 Fairlane that he purchased new.  It is leaking and I've got the replacement and other misc. parts ready for this project.  I hope it goes quickly so that I can see if I can find hoses for my own project.

Rich

Gasman,

I want to confirm the plumbing connections on the boost unit.  In the upside down configuration, accumulator on the right side, the high pressure supply line is on the right side, opposite to the return line. Also, it's the larger of the two ports.  Correct?

Rich

Quote from: gasman826 on 2016-05-28 17:00
My hydraulic booster will not mount at any angle.  Right side up with the accumulator inboard or upside down with the accumulator outboard.  Another benefit of upside down is the plumbing is on the bottom.  The master cylinder bolt center is 3-1/8"...fairly common.  I think the Wilwood master cylinder bolt pattern is slightly slotted to accommodate 3-1/4".  The booster to firewall pattern is 3-1/4"H and 4-1/4"W.  I think these boosters have been offered in kits for years by custom car aftermarket sites.  Master cylinder, booster, proportioning valve, and install kit $600-900.  Much cheaper to wander the bone yards and shop for your own stuff.

How's this project coming along? I guess Gary didn't see your question for him, but I assume you got your answer somewhere. I didn't post what my ports were since the vintages are different so not necessarily the same as yours.

Rich,

Yes, I've got it figured out.  One port on the boost unit takes a weird connector.  I took the boost unit to a place that makes all kinds of hydraulic hoses, including for cars.  They did not have this connector.  The guy there has done some research for me and found the connector and I've told him to order it.  This place will make me custom hoses for about 1/2 the cost of what I paid for hoses from Borgeson.

I had a heck of a time helping my friend with his PS pump.  Turns out that the last person that worked on his PS system incorrectly reassembled the fluid tank on top of the pump.  There is a reinforcing plate that goes inside of the tank and they put it on the bottom. It is a good thing he had an original service manual or we would have put it back together like it was.   It's been leaking for 25 years.  What a deal.  We did replace the pump anyway and it is a challenge to remove and replace.  I also rebuilt his power assist cylinder.  It too was leaking, but it turned out that leak was from a very small hairline crack in one flare fitting.  That steel line had so many bends in it that I ended up cutting off the "easy" end, putting in a coupling and then rebending just the end at the cylinder.  The crack was almost invisible, but the juice sure found its way out.  Be careful when you volunteer to help someone.

Rich

Sorry...missed your question.

No problem, I got it figured out.  Now, all I need is one part to complete the new hose I need.  Hopefully it will show up this coming week.

Rich

Rich/Gary...I'm really curious about the "one weird connector" on the hydroboost. Is that an issue that is not on the later units?

Rich,

I am not really convinced that it is a weird connection.  I've done some experimentation and I think it might be a standard connection that he just did not try to use.  I will visit him again on Tuesday.

Rich

For what it's worth, mine are all metric, but it's a 2002 unit. Nothing weird though..just 3 different sizes.

I just spoke to Pure Choice motor sports and after sending pictures and making measurements, I am pretty sure that they have a banjo fitting that will mate to my booster unit.

Rich

Those guys are pretty knowledgeable and willing to help even if it's not meaning a sale. I forget their names, but the two guys that answer the tech questions are father and son. I've been to their shop in Lake Havasu, Az.
It sounds like your local guy wasn't able to help and the part you were waiting on didn't work?

Rich,

I am still waiting for "the part."  The local guy told me that the adapters that are screwed on the casting were a weird "automotive only thread."  Not so.  I don't think I need the adapters that were screwed onto the casting at all.  I'll still visit the local guy Tuesday.  I will need him to make up the hoses even if I do use the banjo adapter.

Thanks for the link to those guys.

Rich

Any progress?
I'm headed for Colorado Friday evening. I'm registered to do a car show in Green Mountain Falls Saturday...if you got nothing to do, come on down. Green mountain falls is just 10 miles or so west of Colorado Springs on highway24. Heck, you'll be able to see my hydroboost in person!!, lol

Rich,

Thanks for the offer.  I already have a car club event on Saturday, then I have to take my wife to a flower festival.

I have all of the hoses for the boost unit except for the return line.  The return line is aimed right at the exhaust manifold and it needs to make about a 100 degree turn in a very short distance.  A banjo fitting would work here, but this fitting is just 1/4" and I have not found anything that is that size.  I am considering modifying the small connection provided, but it is the short radius that is my challenge.  I will go to the hardware store to see if I can find a 90 degree fitting that I can silver solder to the steel fitting that I have now.  If I can, that will solve the last issue with this installation.

Have you reached the 99% mark with your car?  I know no one ever gets to 100%.

Rich

Not close to 99%...I haven't actually worked on it for a month or so. 1/3 of the lower car is in primer waiting for me to get tired of driving it. Besides that, lots of small things to redo, but all of that can wait.....I'm just enjoying the heck out of driving it.

I just machined the parts to make my close 90 degree return line connection.  I just need to silver solder it together.  I don't have flux right now, but I know someone that does.

Rich

Well, I've got it all back together.  With power steering and a hydro boost unit for the brakes, there is a lot of plumbing in a small area.  Tonight I will get my wife to assist with bleeding the brakes.  If you read anything on the news about a '57 Fairlane being blasted into space it will be because the power brakes did not work.

Ever hopeful,

Rich

Watch the heat buildup with a laser thermometer if you have one. If the power steering part of the system is not bled, the hydroboost will get hot in a matter of minutes. Not sure what to recommend on yours as I remember you don't actually have power steering. On my rack setup I needed to turn the steering lock to lock about 20 times for most of the system to self bled at the rack, then alot of back and forth bleeding at the master (mine has 2 bleed valves on the master), and at the calipers with a harbor freight vacum type bleeder. Took me about a day to finally get it done. Two systems in one that need bleeding...have fun.

Rich,

Thanks for the heads up.  The weather got nasty and I brought all cars in this evening.  The Fairlane is on the lift, so this has to wait for tomorrow.

I do have power steering now, that's one reason that I decided to use the hydro boost unit.  And, I have the same master cylinder that I was using before mounted on the boost unit.  I've run the engine and got the power steering bled, which also has to bleed the boost unit. 

I wonder why the boost unit gets hot if there is still air in the system?  I do have a laser thermometer, so I will keep an eye on it.

Thanks,

Rich

Great.....When I was first working on mine, the Hydroboost would get to 140* plus in just a few minutes. After turning the steering lock to lock for a while, it dropped to 110ish, then eventually just warm...87* if I remember correctly.

Hey Rich, off topic, but check out this thread on the Hamb...it's about an old Colorado Midland train wreck...
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/identify-this-train-wreck.1026611/

Rich,

Cool pictures of the old wreck(s).  Looks like some of the fine junque that we have at the Colorado Rail Road Museum.

Rich

Well, it's done.  Good news is that the power brakes work and my custom fitting does not leak.

If anyone has any questions, let me know.

Rich

Hey Rich,

How would you rate both the Borgeson conversion and the hydroboost addition. Are you pleased with the results? What might you do different?

The steering conversion was not very hard, but it is not 100% bolt in and go.  In the instructions they mention that you will have to shim at the front bolt to get the column centered in the original position.  Not a big deal.  You will have to cut off your existing steering column outer tube and center shaft.  Also not a big deal, but do your measuring carefully.  If you cut off too much, you are screwed.  I am using my existing column shift and there is no room to install a rag joint.  I have a coupler welded to the end of the existing column.  If you read around you will find comments about sound traveling up the shaft into the cabin of the car.  It does do that, and Borgeson will tell you that too, but if the radio or a/c is on, you won't hear it.

I have three sheaves on my harmonic balancer and water pump.  The third one, closest to the radiator was unused (my car had factory a/c, but was not on the car when I bought it) and that is the one that I used for the P/S pump.  The bracket for the P/S pump is a perfect fit.  I did have to reroute my gas line a little as it came out of the fuel pump, but not a big deal.

I am very happy with the new power steering.  I don't think I ever turned the wheels lock to lock before, too much effort required.

The hydroboost unit I used came from a full size Ford/Lincoln/Mercury car from the era of 1975 - 1979.  It was cheap from Rockauto, about $140 if I remember correctly.  There was a $20 core charge, that I had to pay because I did not have one to exchange.  I looked in most of the salvage yards in the Denver metro area and I could not find one of those cars.  I think they are all at the crusher now.  Anyway, getting the hydroboost unit was just part of what I needed.  There is a rod, spring and small round bracket that you will see back in one of these posts.  I could not find any place that would sell it to me.  So, one fine member of this forum sent me one that he did not use.  Now that I have it in hand, I could make another and if anyone takes on the project, I'll pull mine apart and make accurate measurements so you can make one too.

I just got the car on the road today, and have only put a few miles on it.  However, the brakes are working great.  In the picture in the previous post you will see that I have a brake adjusting valve for the rear brakes.  Right now, it is in the full pressure to the rear position.  I have not yet slammed on the brakes to see what locks up first. 

In order to mount the hydroboost unit I had to add a shim under the lower two bolts.  This tilts the front of the boost unit up and this is so that the push rod does not bind up.  My shim is about 3/8" thick.  The pushrod on the boost unit is the right length.  I was worried that this would put too much of a tilt on the master cylinder, but it is just fine.  By the way, I am using a two chamber master cylinder from a 1967 Full size Ford that was designed for disk/drum brakes.  That's what I have now.

I did buy the P/S hoses from Borgeson, but would not do that again.  They charged about $80 for them.  Then of course I had to make modifications so that I could connect up the hydroboost unit.  I was able to use one of the existing lines without modification, one line I modified and the line that goes between the boost unit to the P/S unit I had to have made from scratch.  I actually bought a section of 3/8" brake line and used the bender that I have to mock up the way I wanted the lines made.  For a $7 throw away that was a good investment.  They matched what I did very well and only charged me $45 to make my lines.  However, they said they were going to raise their prices in the near future.

Then there was the issue of the return line from the boost unit.  It points right at the exhaust manifold and I had to use my lathe to make a custom part.  The pictures on previous posts show what I had to make.  Once I finally decided how I was going to deal with this problem it was not hard to make.

What would I do different?  I don't think anything.  What I have is working well.  It's congested under the boost unit with all the lines, but I don't think that there is anything that you can do about that.

I need to touch up the paint after all the work I did in there, but I think it looks okay.  Of course I'm biased on that issue.

While I would not say it was easy to do, it was not all that bad either.  Not technically hard, but you are not going to get all this done in a day.  Any good shade tree mechanic could tackle this project and make it work.

I bought the P/S unit off of eBay.  It shipped directly from Borgeson, but was sold by another company - cost was $800 including shipping.  About $250 less than from Borgeson.  My original PS pump leaked and they sent me another one right away.

My old steering gear box was shot.  It could have been rebuilt for about $650, but for a little more, I ended up with power steering and then had a source of power for hydroboost brakes.  For me, a good deal.

Rich

Well done!!

I watched you search for a fitting for the return line on the bottom of your inverted hydraulic brake booster without responding until now.  Congratulations on your success!  I didn't find any fitting to match those threads.  I shortened the OEM nipple to get rid of the hose barb and used a AN adapter to hard line.  There is a AN to hard line adapter that has a brass cone that slides over the hard line and is compressed much like a copper compression fitting.  This has worked for several years.  The reason I didn't say anything was due to the difference in clearance.  With headers, there is much more room to add the adapter and a 90 fitting.

That's a really clean adapter that you are using.  I just made what I had the skill and tools to make.  I did look for a banjo that would work, but I think that return line fitting is just too small. 

Nice job.

Rich

What type of master cylinder are you using....the traditional style or the late model Mustang type? Got pics?

Rich,

Sorry for the delay in response.  I've been in Canada and upstate New York, shortly to head for east Texas and Louisiana.  Retirement is hard work, but I am holding up pretty well.

I am using the same 1967 Ford Galaxie  M/C for a car with disk/drum brakes that I bought a while back.  It was a perfect fit before I installed the boost unit.  With the boost unit I needed a pushrod and spring to complete the mate up.  I could not find one ANYWHERE, but a member to this site sent me exactly what I needed.  When you buy a rebuilt boost unit, instructions say to reuse the old pushrod/spring.  Well, I did not have one.  Prior to buying the rebuild boost unit I looked at the salvage yards in the Denver area and could not locate even one.  All the cars of that vintage have gone to the crusher.  I even went to a new Ford dealer and tried to buy the part.  Forget it.

Rich