Pretty jazzed after this 3-week project...3 years later...
Engine swap and John's stfabrications rack and pinion going in soon...
Latest film episode...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f9gVl_jTjY
Rob
Nice job!!!!!!!!!! The most difficult part of my projects is the documentation. When I am working on stuff, I am so focused that pictures are the last thing on my mind.
Hey Rob! Glad to see you still at it. To be honest, I thought you had sold the car, someone here thought they had seen it on ebay... Keep up the good work.
Thanks guys!
Here is the episode of us getting the engine and tranny mated a few weeks ago...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6QFs0OI3Vg
Very excited to have Bobby Walden on board to help with this project! Very nice guy...it's great living in SoCal for hot rod stuff. Bobby will be doing the engine swap, rack and pinion, front and rear sway bars. He is in Pomona near SoCal Speed Shop and others...
http://www.waldenspeedshop.com
By the way...I am not seeing the sway bar info on this web site that you guys talk about in another thread...please advise...
http://www.thunderbirdsouthwest.com/
Thanks!
Rob
Great bullet dodging!!!!!!!!!!! The next time you mate a transmission and engine block together, take a couple of longer bell housing size bolts and cut the heads off. Use a hack saw, cut a slot in the end to make a screw out them. Insert them in the block. These longer screws will act as guide pins to help you slide the transmission onto the block. After you put a couple regular bell housing bolts in, use a screwdriver to remove your homemade guide pins. This works great on a bunch of stuff!!!
Gasman is correct. Use the same princilpe when putting a body back on a chassis. I like doing them at the fire wall or the body mount next to the door jam and at the very rear. Saves a lot of grief with "bumping" thing you don't want bumped!
Great video thanks Rob!
I really enjoyed your video. At the risk of stepping on myself, I've had trouble sleeping at night thinking about the steering on your car. Somebody did that and passed it on to you. Who knows how long that has been like that. I cobble some stuff up to roll in around the barn but to send that out on the street and worse yet...sell to someone who may have sold it to someone else. I support DIY but I am starting to support the concept of protecting that engineer from himselves and us. The last few years, we have been inviting NHRA inspectors to our car show. A lot of rodders line up to get their sticker. It is not a NHRA safety inspection but does give the car a going over. That is, brakes, parking brake, horn, wipers, lights, tires, and so on...at least enough to establish that it is a reasonably built car. At least your car had sever enough bump steer to signal you to get another opinion. Your car looks great and I'm sure that you will be thrilled with the new R&P steering and the new engine. Take care,
I keep thinking how nice it would be to just stand outside in February without getting rained or snowed on. Nice video!
I thought that too when I saw them walking around with a sweatshirt and no steam off their breath!!!!!!!!
Must be nice!!!
Shorts and t-shirts this weekend!
I am just waiting for Bobby Walden's schedule and the delivery of parts to get this swap done. The bumpsteer is really bad. Driving at 40 mph is OK...but hitting bumps in the road and the front end sways from side-to-side.
Can't wait for this wagon to drive nice. Bobby is installing r&p, front/rear sway bars, besides doing the engine/trans swap.
More video to come as the project continues.
Cheers...
Rob
I put R&P in almost 11K miles ago. You will love it. You might want to keep an eye out for a smaller steering wheel.
On the subject of smaller steering wheels, has any one seen one of the new 15" advertized to fit a 57 Ford?
Robhaerr.
How goes the project? Bob Lee and Myself were wondering if the car will be done in time for the Fabulous Fords Forever Car Show at Knott's this coming April 22nd. We would like to see ya in the show with that cool wagon now that it will be a Ford in a Ford...LOL.
Hope to hear from ya.
Rick.
57 Tudor
:burnout:
Bob
57 Agin
:burnout:
Still waiting on Bobby Walden's schedule to open up...thanks for asking!
Walden's Speed Shop has an article in this month's Street Rodder magazine on skinning a hot rod door. I feel fortunate he wants to do my project!
When I talked to him last week, he had 11 '32 Fords in his shop.
http://www.waldenspeedshop.com
I am not going by any deadlines over the last 3 years for this project that should have taken 3 weeks! My wife decided we needed new flooring, paint, and kitchen. But...she knows this is gonna happen now!
Another update after dropping off the wagon and stopping by a few days later.
Bobby Walden is very impressed with the S&T Fabrications rack and pinion unit!!! He told me that he has had lousy experience with similar kits in the past for his other hot rod projects. They were very impressed by the crate and the quality. Bobby was very pleased that the universal joints came with the kit and how the instructions were laid out. I should have filmed more as they uncrated the unit...my director skills were lacking on this day...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvjLiPKdTMo&feature=share
Rob
Another update as we get the 302 down to Walden Speed Shop. We also get a tour of a bitchen '32 3-window...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtDYImRUpqc
Billy Gibbons took a ride in that '32 the day before. They drove it from Pomona to the Fender guitar factory in Corona, CA...no mufflers...love.....it. Hope you can see this video from Walden Speed Shop Facebook site...don't think I have ever seen the Rev Gibbons without his cheap sunglasses...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=293060357435351
Rob
...feeling 14.
The S & T Fabrications rack and pinion unit is bolted-in nicely!
Bobby Walden and his guys are extremely impressed with this unit...the way it was crated and shipped, the instructions, the workmanship, the universal joints...thanks Wildhog and Yellowagon! http://www.stfabrications.herobo.com/
Photos so far...steering column has not been worked yet...lookin' good...
Rob
Huh...looks just like my pictures. What steering column are you using? One of the surprising things that I experienced is that you can hardly turn the steering wheel with the R&P setup. It will turn just fine with the engine running but dead stick is another thing. You'll really have to armstrong it. The 'mid ship bearing' is a real challenge to get right but when it works it will be great.
gasman...
I am using the stock column. I want to keep the look of the stock wheel, too....at least for now.
Bobby sees no problem at this point, is sure the horn will work with the horn ring. I wish the previous owner would have put the speakers in the kick panel instead of the doors. I might put speakers in the way back at some point, not sure...just thinking out loud...
Rob
Sweeeeeeeeeet, I have to do a wagon one day. Mark :rock_band:
Rob, If you change over to a 58 steering column, with the horn wire running on the out side, you will have no horn problem. Tom
The OEM wheel is neat...just big. FYI for another upgrade down the road, Bob's Speedometer does some great dash and instrumentation work. I was visiting his shop for a custom speedometer cable and personal tour. When I mentioned '57 Ford, I was immediately shown one of their custom instrument clusters for a '57. They had squeezed in a oil pressure gauge and volt meter in what appeared to be what Henry should have done. An extremely nice upgrade from great people. My next dash will be a '65 Thunderbird and Bob's Speedometer will help me swap out the factory gauges to full sweep, electric gauges that will receive signals from the EFI controller.
Mock up phase of the TBird dash in '57. Doesn't really show the gauges...maybe if you squint a little.
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o531/gasman826/IMG00014.jpg)
gasman...
I do like what Bob's did with the 57 gauge on this page...
http://www.bobsspeedometer.com/1/120/before_and_after.asp
I rather fancy something like this, too...if I mess with the panel later...love this 57...see the photos and article from Street Rodder...
http://www.streetrodderweb.com/features/0907sr_1957_ford_custom_300/photo_10.html
Honestly...if I could graft the dash from a 59/60 chevy and the hardtop roof from a 57/58 Buick or Oldsmobile wagon onto the body of the 57 Ford wagon...that would be pretty cool...love the roof line. This wagon is pure nasty, and the hardtop roof line is bitchen to let in the air...
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_0908_1958_buick_caballero/photo_01.html
But...that would be a fabricational money pit. I will have fun with what I got. Thanks for the tip on the 58 column, Tom!
Rob
Nice looking dashes. I spent days doing this one...may it rest in peace.
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o531/gasman826/57Dash.jpg)
A quick 3-minute update with the rack and pinion unit mounted and the engine in place.
Bobby Walden uses the key word, "bitchen", when describing the S & T Fabrications rack and pinion unit. Sorry I said "J and S"...dumbass...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygVACkWA1oo
Gettin' closer...cheers...
Rob
Looks great!!! Impressive what a little thinking and fabrication can do.
I see Walden Speed Shop has a nice article in the May issue of STREET RODDER. I hope this doesn't keep them so busy that it impacts your projects timeline.
Gasman...
Yes, Walden is a busy shop. That white car behind Bobby is getting built for Holley...and there are several ground-up 32 Fords being built. He said 11 of them.
It does affect how fast my car gets done, but the quality of work is great and they are all great guys that know I don't have the deep pockets like their other clients. These "old hot rods" he builds are not cheap by any measure!
I think Bobby also likes that there is a "late model" in the shop. He seems to enjoy working with me on these silly videos, too! The fabricator, Matt...was really shy about not wanting to be on video...I basically ambushed him on this last clip.
I'll have to touch-up the oil pan.
Rob
Rob...I'm really enjoying your videos..great job. Looking forward to some follow up video on your final hookup to the rack and pinion..will be doing that on mine as soon as I get my interior done and my steering wheel installed. Glad to hear all the praise on the r & p from a top shop like Walden's...I know I was sure impressed with how easy and well it fit..but I don't know anything.
I'm going to add Bob's speedometer to our list of '57 ford specific supplier links...it's been a while since we've had someone new to add.
Rich
Gary..not to hijack Rob's thread, but I really like the t-bird dash you're doing. As you may or may not know, I'm really into the mild customizing side of our hobby and it is really really dificult to come up with something that is unique and the hardest part..tasteful. I know a lot of the guys probably cringe when they see what I'm doing to mine..but that's ok..that's why we're into this thing to begin with...to have something different. Keep up the good work.
I'll try to find a pic of my dash in stage 1...I'll be recovering and reinstalling later this month with some changes.
Rich
PS sorry about the small pic...lost the original image in a computer crash, and a stolen camera...should have it on disc somewhere.
Rich...
I hope to have more photos/video soon...you will really like the bracket that Bobby Walden made for the steering column that bolts to the chassis...piece of artwork that uses the bracket that came with the S&T Fabrications kit, but he built onto it.
Rob
Hey All...
A quick view at some Walden Speed Shop custom artwork displayed in the wagon. I wanted to get this on video because the next time I see it, the front end will be reassembled. This shows the bracket that was made to hold the steering column in place nice and solid. Bobby and his guys added the column support to the bracket that came with the S&T Fabrications rack and pinion kit...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy95Fx83Cdg
Looking very good there.
Nice setup..thanks for the pics. I was going to fab a heavy plate to replace the sheetmetal "big hole filler", to have something to attach a firewall type column support...not sure which way I'll go now.
Rob, do you know if they kept the S & T bracket/bearing support part of it in the as-designed location, or if they altered the location.
Rich
Rich...
I believe they kept that location the same. But after looking at the photos on the S&T Fabrications site and the photos I took...Bobby and his guys may have made a whole new bracket...but I thought they just added the column support to the one pictured on the left at the bottom of this page...
http://www.stfabrications.herobo.com/index.php?page=Product
I honestly don't know for sure. I don't know if the brackets S&T shipped to me are exactly like the ones in the photo on their site. It does look like the u-joint positioning is a tad different. I hope there is no binding on mine, naturally. I am still using the 57 stock column and the location of the column coming out of the firewall is not changing. One of the guys told me that it is not all tightened down yet.
I will be gone for the next week, so I won't be able to get the progression of the new sway front and rear sway bars and assembly on video. I am also somewhat concerned about ride height, but Bobby tells me not to worry. I bought new 2" drop coils from Eaton to replace the old cut coils. Eaton got all the correct info reagrding a 302/auto/no AC...so fingers are crossed. I did like the ride height I had. Eaton said to return them if I need more drop and they will adjust. I don't really want to be shipping springs back and forth. The option of Aerostar springs and other options are around. Bobby sounds confident and he certainly knows what he is doing.
Needless to say...looking forward to getting the reassembled wagon back to my garage so my buddy and I can get the engine running. This wagon should drive "like a slot car", according to Bobby Walden. Hope that's the case with no major bullets to dodge!
Rob
Nice video and pictures of the steering shaft and u-joint support. Tough pictures to get once the inner fenders go on. The u-joint support bracket was a very frustrating bracket to get right. You just don't know until you mock it up and rotate the shaft to test for bind. With the variations in manufacturering, rack placement, body placement, steering column placement, cut length of the column, that bracket almost needs to be custom for every application.
I am of the opinion the bearing needs to be moved closer to the double joint to relieve the stress on the u-joint on the column. The end of the double joint needs to be firmly anchored to prevent binding. If the photos represent the real location it is over center to the column side of the shaft.
I had this same discussion with RAWms (a now passed member building a Yellow Ranchero) about the location of his support bearing. In talking with him it felt fine with the car in the air and on the ground in his garage. Got the engine in and most of the front sheet metal and it turned into a couple of "lumpy" spots (his words) turning lock to lock. Unfortunately he unexpectedly passed away (age 62) before we were able to get together again on the problem. Now is the time to look really hard at this and talk to folks at Flaming River or Borgeson.
Did they shorten the length of the column? I thought these kits required taking some length out of the column to get the angle of the double joint correct. Those double joints can be a pain to get right and if they aren't right you will have a tight spot. I think 70 degrees is the maximum angle they can make between shafts. We battled the intermediate shaft for a long time on my 64 Fairlane when we did a rack conversion. I'm sure your chassis guy knows all about that though. Doesn't look like this is his first rodeo. Looking good.
I was curious because of the way the input shaft on the rack leans to the front of the car to me makes a smooth connection more difficult. Sparky has made a bunch of these racks for the '57's and at this point I'm 100% confident what he sent will work without modifications...in fact my application should be easier than most because the Mustang steering column I'm using has several joints on the inside side of the firewall, so I've got more leeway on where my column can exit the firewall, and at the angle it exits at.
It's great to read your responses!
I don't know if what you are seeing in the photos/video the final set-up. Bobby was not at the shop when I dropped by and fabricator Matt was busy with another customer project at the moment, so I just took my pictures and left after saying hello. He did say it wasn't all "tightened down yet"...meaning it is not done.
That angle on the double-joint looks concerning...but I am confident it will be working properly. The more I see at Walden Speed Shop, the more I am impressed. From the work I see to the people I see dropping by...and the way the treat me...someone without the deep pockets of their other clients. It refreshing to get great attention without the feeling that I am bothering them. They have slipped into having fun with my "Project 302" video series, as silly as it is.
Rob
I also experienced Blue Blood's binding issue. There must be adjustment in the shaft support. After final assembly, added weight, the frame settles, the body shifts, the moon's gravitational pull, final adjustment may be required to the shaft support. As far as locating the shaft support as close as possible to the double joint to relieve load on the single joint, my support bearing is closer to the double that the single joint. I have only 10K miles on mine with no measurable joint stress and no steering column lower bearing wear. After assembly, I adjust in once and have not touched it since.
One thing we learned racing is to index the universal joints, in other words they can't line up the same. Mark
Rob...Any updates?
Rich...
Yep! But...I am having technical issues with the video processing. I am stumped.
Here are a few photos from yesterday...front suspension reassembled with front and rear sway bars, drive shaft installed. Still need to install power steering pump and other details before putting the front end back on.
The car will be back at my house to get the engine running...thanks for asking!
Bobby Walden and Chip Foose are on the cover of the up-coming Street Rodder, and Walden Speed Shop is having their annual open house on June 15. I am actually sorta hoping Bobby won't be done with the 'wagon and the car stays on the lift for the open house. That would mean a few photos of the 'wagon in the background in a few magazines! We'll see...he says he really needs to start cleaning up the shop to make room for the open house....but he does like the idea of having "a late model" in his shop of '32 Fords for the event. I wouldn't have time to get the motor running to have it at the open house if I get it back beforehand.
http://www.waldenspeedshop.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/walden.speedshop
Bobby is very pleased with the progress, and he is saying this thing will handle like a friggin' slot car/Ferrari. Maybe I should have stepped up the horsepower! It'll be a nice grocery-gettin' cruiser.
Cheers!
Rob
OK...figured out the video issue...so here is a Project 302 video update. It really doesn't show much more than the photos I posted above...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbTteNiObbI&feature=g-upl
Rob
Oh boy!! Just popped popcorn and ready for a movie. Always look forward to these video clips. Oh ya'...the cars coming along nicely too.
Rob, that chassis is looking sweet. No more white knuckle cruising. :burnout:
Here are a couple of photos from today...no video...
Power steering pump, rack and pinion from underneath (car is slightly lifted by a lift, so no weight on it), transmission linkage...
Looking really good! The ham bone, Saginaw pump should be a good match to the rack. Is hooking the shift rod direct from the transmission to the column a common practice? Without routing through the equalizer, could engine torque shift gears? Just asking.
Good point on the gear shift thing Gasman. My son did the same thing with heim joints on his C-6 Edsel swap. I know the 429 will make some torque. I'll have to pass this along. Thanks
Hmmm...I don't know anything about an equalizer (?!?). Please edu-ma-cate me!
This is how the linkage was hooked up with the Chevy motor and trans in it...in other words....maybe it was "Frankensteined" like the steering was!
Show me what an equalizer is...please!
Thanks...
Rob
Some refer to it as the Z bar much like the equalizer used for clutch linkage. The equalizer allows movement of the engine without transmitting it to the shift linkage. Same effect as torque steer. Upon acceleration, the engine and transmission will twist or lift up on the left side. If the rubber engine insulators (motor mounts) are a little soft, there could be upwards of a 1/2" of movement. It might be enough to shift gears. You need a floor shift, equalizer or a cable.
Now I'm just teasing you, but you're going to trust the work of the guy that rigged that steering. I got some land for sale in Florida!
pictured is an example
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o531/gasman826/equalizerbar.jpg)
I'm glad that the issue of the linkage was brought up as I thought it might be an option at first on our conversion. Back to the original plan.
Hmmm...I'l have to see how that Z bar gets hooked up.
I found this regarding a Z-bar...but going into a 57 Chevy (sorry)...
http://www.jefflilly.com/fabrication/tranny-linkage/
Looking for one for a 57 Ford with a C4...anyone...anyone?
Gasman...that one you showed a correct one?
I have a copy of the "1957 Ford Car and Thunderbird Shop Manual"...doesn't show automatic trans, only "conventional" and "overdrive". The linkage shown is a 3-speed manual column shift.
#1 on my mind is having this car a safe driver.
Rob
you're on the right track now. The picture was an example...maybe a '64 Fairlane. You can make it from scratch. It would be a nice little project with a medium to low difficultly rating. Sometimes I like making things and other times I like to adapt other model parts. In this case and if you have access and enjoy picking, I would hit your favorite wrecking yard and find a '60s donor that had a C4 in it. The bellhousing bracket would be correct for your application as well as the lower linkage to the C4. The equalizer could be shortened or lengthened to fit your needs. If the donor is a full framed car, I would not be surprised if the frame bracket bolts right on. I would consider using the factory stuff because of all the plastic or rubber bushings and pivot points. I like heims joints for a lot of things. I have 1/4" to 3/4" ones on my car. But they can be a little hash. Vibration and noise can travel through them. For a driver, I think you would be happier with some donor parts.
I used one in my 36 Chevy (351C/FMX), came out of a 76 Mercury Marque. Fit perfect. Thing to do is to put the link from the shifter on the lever on the chassis side and the link from the trans to the lever on the engine side. Had to use it to change direction because the FMX shift lever was for a floor mount shifter and I have a column shifter.
Now having said all of that.....my wagon has the stock auto column and a link straight to the C-6 shift lever. Never had a problem with it changing gears when the hammer was down.
Cool...
I bet a Maverick, Granada, Fairlane, Galaxie, Torino or another car with a column shift would be plentiful.
I do see this Lokar linkage that goes straight to the tranny...
http://www.honestcharley.com/hot-rod-parts/steering-columns/column-shift-linkage-c4-c6.html
...but going to check into the Z-bar thing-a-ma-jig...
Thanks!
Now having said all of that.....my wagon has the stock auto column and a link straight to the C-6 shift lever. Never had a problem with it changing gears when the hammer was down.
Maybe I was over engineering things. Try it! If it is a problem, you know how to fix it.
Not much progress, but here is the wagon on display at Walden Speed Shop during their annual open house before the LA Roadster Show at the Pomona Fairplex this weekend...I am really tickled it was there and had many people checking it out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdPI0X8Ee8s
LA Roadster Show...
http://www.laroadsters.com/shownews.html
Happy Father's Day.
Rob
I just got a phone message from Walden Speed Shop letting me know the 'wagon is reassembled and ready to return to my garage to get the motor runnin'.
Since you guys seem to like this video series, here is a revisit to Project Day 3 where "we" assembled the rotating assembly. This is before the big-budget production opening and closing. I do notice that Vimeo cut off the last few minutes of the cognac tasting...pretty bummed about that, but there are some fun stories and a camshaft timing clinic...
https://vimeo.com/1296363
Harold's Dad worked for Isky cam in those early days and was part of the hot rod pioneer days out at the dry lake beds in California with all those guys.
Fun stuff that is making this project a pretty cool experience.
Cheers...
Rob
...trying to figure out what beverage we need to celebrate the firing-up of Project 302 and how to honor my buddy Steve for all his help with the engine over this project. Without him offering up this motor and the help, forget it.
I know you all have been wondering what's up...Walden Speed Shop now has room for another project on their lift. I enthusiastically recommend these guys if you have a hot rod project...great work that is quickly becoming legendary, extraordinarily nice people with a fun atmosphere...click here for the video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1FWwsjxJKw
I should have gone with Aerostar springs in the front. The new 2" drop springs I got from Eaton make the car sit too high in front. Will be getting the Aerostar springs and having them installed while getting an alignment.
Lots of other tasks to get done before starting the 302 and getting driveable.
It's the journey, not the destination...at least that's what I keep tellin m'self.
Cheers...
Rob
First session after getting the 'wagon back to my house...click here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMkBy1SVyPA
I am lucky to have friends who know how to do this stuff. I am learning a ton.
Cheers...
Rob
I have a feeling that you guys are just dyin' to know where we are with Project 302.
Well...grab your favorite beverage for a 14 minute, 17 seconds of electrifying drama!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwOGyyWVvbg
We are still having fun, making progress.
Cheers!
Rob
The problem is:
- its over 90 degrees
- its been two hours
and you're still sucking on the same beer...more beer!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't ya' just love wiring. For some reason, I find it fascinating. Went I was working, I hogged all the electrical problems.
Getting the dome light and horn to work are major. For some, those are the first thing to quite working and never do get fixed.
Super job.
Very entertaining..really enjoyed it....especially since I've been working some on my wiring. I'm really anxious to see how you like the 302..(what is the engine originally out of?), and particularly anxious to see how you like the Rack and pinion..
Rich
Rich...
My buddy Steve got this motor from the former VP of Edelbrock, Dawson Hadley. He explains in this video how he and his brother rebuilt it for a Cougar project 30 years ago, but never completed the project. It is bored over.060, Edelbrock mild cam, intake, 600 cfm carb...
https://vimeo.com/2009079
I have 22 episodes if you want to see the whole story from the day we unearthed the engine from Steve's garage 4 years ago. The first 9 episodes are posted on Vimeo...
https://vimeo.com/user531397/videos
...and you can search YouTube for "Project 302" for the rest up to date...or go to my YouTube channel where you will also find the band I play with and some other stuff...
http://www.youtube.com/user/robhaerr
Enjoy...there's nothing on TV anyway.
As far as the rack and pinion...I fear I will have a lumpy spot, but will really be able to evaluate after we get the car driving. Hope to fire the engine in the next couple of episodes.
Rob
'lumpy spot'??
U-joint bind under load......if you look back at the placement of the trunion bearing it it actually closer to the upper u-joint then it is to the double...or it looks like it to me in the pictures.
RAWms (former member, now passed) and I had discussions on the placement of that support bearing in his Ranchero build. We went PM with the discussion because another member of the board PMed him "it's going to be OK" and it turned out the setuo looked and worked fine with the car up in the air but developed "lumpy" spots when on the ground with the drive train in place. He stated he had moved the location of the bearing closer to the double u-joint and it fixed the problem. Unfortunately he got sick that evening and passed suddenly at 62, a couple of months after retireing, and never posted any follow-up pics or updates. His wife was the person that posted the sad news a few weeks after it happened.
We will have to see what it's like when we have power.
We have the electrical juice flowing...should be ready for gasoline and belching fire soon...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFwKqzu4BsI
We have changed our mind and are going with a "one wire" alternator instead of old school regulator wiring and it won't arrive for another week or so. Dang, it's the only thing I have ever had to wait for from Summit Racing.
I am learning patience.
Rob
Our patience was tested yesterday. We had our share of trials and triumphs...
Here is part 1 of Day 24...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFhIuCyw6cg
...and part 2 with more suspense-filled drama...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JCAFepUhpQ
We were very bummed out to hear that one noisy push rod...then the rocker arm snapped in half. Time to tear into the top end. That push rod had "zero lash". Hoping for no other damage.
Advanced patience lessons.
...and everything was going so good! Keep after it, you'll get it.
Project 302 Day 25: "Success Without Conflict is Boring"
Opening up the top end to diagnose the broken rocker arm...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4aq8AdABGI
Basically, the rocker was bangin' on the rocker stud. The cam is mild...Edelbrock Performer 2122.
Scratching our heads.
Rob302
Just trying to help out. read valve adjustment on bottom of page 2. good luck
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/misc/tech_center/install/2000/2122.pdf
Thanks 62galxe!
I think we followed those instructions closely...but it was 3-4 years ago. I will have to ask my buddy Steve. Steve was very conscious of this. Check out these 2 episodes regarding the pushrods...kinda long, but nothin' else on TV...you can fast forward through...at 15:25 we discuss cylinder #7, although it was the #7 exhaust that broke (you are seeing the intake)...
https://vimeo.com/2263923
Here we installed the "new" pushrods we had to get in order to get the correct lash...we were pretty thorough with the measurements, so we are blaming it on a bad rocker at this point(!)...
https://vimeo.com/3042325
We did need to get longer pushrods when we were measuring with the stock ones. The rocker that broke was banging on the rocker stud, and caused the break so apparently we didn't look close enough. There are marks on the inside of the rocker slot and on the stud. The sound we heard was probably the rocker banging on the stud.
It turns out that this stock push rod had .070 lash, so we bought a longer rod...as it was the exhaust, not the intake as I thought earlier before removing the intake and heads.
I think we are going to go for the Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads that match the cam/intake/carb and be confident with the valvetrain. Also looking at using Comp Cams Magnum rockers with the roller tips. The aluminum will keep the heat under control a bit better, too.
I want dependable!
This motor seems to need the extra cooling that the aluminum will provide.
Thoughts?
. I like the idea of the aluminum heads.
I tell you what...I'm glad it's a small block in the engine bay right now!
I am being a bit secretive in this clip, but we decided to go with new Edelbrock Performer RPM heads (60229) to ensure correct valvetrain geometry and heat displacement. We were a bit wary of the original heads...funky push rod lengths and too much heat. The Edelbrock heads require the drilling of the steam holes. We will be using Comp Cams Magnum roller-tip rocker arms. We also need to go back to stock length push rods after some measuring.
Enjoy as we start to reassemble the top end...looking forward to getting it started again...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ariRhoKDPyY
Cheers...
Rob
We are running out of parts...and getting closer after rebuilding the top end with Edelbrock heads for a better valve train...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWk9-IRFa_8
Rob
OK...we turn the key again...after 4 years of challenge and a whole bunch of fun...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZn9A8RS4Ws
Next step is lower front Aerostar springs and an alignment...plus some fine tuning of the transmission.
Cheers...
Rob
Yeah...That is one sweet sounding car...congrats. Let us know how she handles now that she can move on her own down the road....did you notice any of the lumpy spots in the steering you were worried about?
Thanks Rich!
The first order is to get the carb adjusted...it is running too lean out-of-the-box(Edelbrock 1406 600cfm, elect choke), so some different jets and metering rods are needed. I have ordered the Edelbrock 1479 tune-up kit(actually for the Edelbrock 1405 man choke, but has more jets, rods, springs...other forums have suggested settings from this kit) and have some great advise on where to start. Engine runs great when not driving, but is sluggish like it needs more fuel and burps through the carb when accelerating thru the gears at low speed.
The car handles much better with the r&p and sway bars, although I have not been on the freeway at higher speeds yet. I have no more bump-steer, which was a huge problem with the bad geometry on the "frankensteined" stock manual steering that was on the car.
There is a slight lump with the rack and pinion due to the angle of the double-joint as you guys warned about.
I am getting the 1990 Aerostar coil springs put in for the ride height I want and an alignment tomorrow. The "2-inch drop" springs I bought from Detroit Springs make the front sit about 4 inches too high. I'll post before-and-after pics, but I am going for the ride I had in the photo under my name over there on the left. Those were cut springs and not in good shape when removed by Walden Speed Shop.
I might continue the Project 302 videos through this process...not sure yet. Some other friends want me to continue as we get it running as ideal as possible.
Best...
Rob
OK...
Front springs replaced and an alignment...holy crap!
Great news.
The Aerostar springs put my wagon back to where I wanted it after removing cut coil springs that were wasted and buying "2-inch drop" springs from Detroit Spring that raised the car 3-4 inches.
Here is a photo of before with the Detroit Springs and after with the Aerostar springs (Moog part # CC850, under $100 at O'Reilly Auto or others). The photo under my name over to the left is the car with the cut springs that rode pretty bad.
These Aerostar springs ride nice.
With this phase of dialing-in...this wagon drives like a freakin' slot car! (bigger front sway bar and rear sway bar help, too) Steering is as tight as my Infiniti G35, although I do have slight lump do to the angle of the double u-joint.
Hope that helps...
Rob
The 302 fits with plenty of power and plenty of room...
Rob, what booster/mc are you running?
Awesome...bet you're just thrilled to get 'er done. Great news on the handling, I've been anxious to hear since my setup is pretty much the same. Thanks for posting the aerostar pn's also...don't know where mine's gonna end up height wise, so I may be looking for lower springs also. "Detroit Spring"...are you refering to Eaton? I think Jim Nolan had the same problem...wanted lower and got higher. Did you get the carb straightened out..I think you said it was a little sluggish at first.
Cool57...
I had the front power disc brakes put in by a local brake shop about 8 years ago, and I do not know the exact model. I see kits that look like mine in car magazine ads.
However...I just did a search for "Full size Ford power brake" and this is one of the links...scroll down to see the ones for a '57...
http://midwestbooster.com/products.html
Mine works much better now than the non-power drums that were on the front.
Hope that helps!
Rob
Hey Rich...
Yes, I was referring to Eaton! I was really bummed about those springs.
Dialing-in the alignment and ride height is like night and day. The guy who did it has hot rods. He was impressed with the Aerostar springs and the rack and pinion unit, although he has aligned many hot rods with the switch to r&p. I am not exaggerating about driving like a slot car. Now I need new front shocks...but they will wait.
Still need to get the carb dialed-in...just got the tune-up kit with the jets/rods/springs. Now I just need time!
Can't wait to get it running "ideal" as my buddy Steve likes to say. It should have plenty of grunt for a cruiser 'wagon. I know I will wish I got an AOD tranny...but that was twice the money. The C-4 will have to do. I love the small block and the room there is in the engine bay to do some work when needed.
Rob
Thanks for all the info. I like the new stance. Sorry if I missed this somewhere but are you still running stock spindles? What are your wheel and tire sizes? Thanks.
Hey 512Fairlane...
Yes, still running stock spindles! Aerostar springs and drop spindles would probably be too low.
These tires are 215 60 15. I was having problems with the rear rubbing when going up a driveway at an angle...but I don't seem to have the problem with the rear sway bar.
I may change the rear to 65 or 70 series...not sure yet as I really don't want to raise the rear at all.
And the best part is now you can raise your hood at car shows..LOL
Hey Rich...
Tell me about it.
Now I can open it all the way and be proud! Really like the way it came out.
We did some carburetor tuning this morning to feed more fuel to the hungry 302...check out the video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OShyU0wwFbM
Now to drive and break 'er in a bit.
Rob
Looks good, it also looks like the handling is pretty smooth on the freeway run. I was chasing a dead spot on the power curve, 292,3-speed od, 3.89 gear. We rebuilt the autolite 4100, 1.08 and still had a flat spot. The recommendations for holley carb size was 465cfm. My brother had eight carbs laying around, the newest was a 600 cfm. So for a $35 rebuild kit we took a shot. It to had a wicked flat spot on the bottom, we wound up with a larger squirter, and larger jets, problem solved :003: you know its only 600 when you stand on it, Mark
Mark...
I will break in the motor with this set-up for a bit. I haven't stomped on it (much), yet...so I don't know about wide-open throttle.
I still have several more options to try with the Edelbrock 1405 calibration kit. The carb is the electric choke Edelbrock 1406, but the calibration kit for the manual choke Edelbrock 1405 more jets, metering rods, springs than the kit for the 1406.
This first change made a huge difference in driveability for cruising. Next will be how it performs while stompin' on it after a few tank fulls.
Looking forward to several freeway on-ramp stomps! (thinking about how to film the next episode of P302 already)
Rob
Project 302 continues with more tweeks, adjustments, and adult beverage revisit for Thanksgiving weekend...and some rompin' on the go pedal...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eutNwd4ydBc
Cheers!
Rob
TOO KOOL
AAHHHH such a feeling of accomplishment!!!!!! And it sounds good to.
sounds awesome.and got some giddyup! Any idea what gas mileage is yet? and how about that steering setup...happy with it, or haven't you noticed from being absorbed with getting the engine tuned right...LOL. Hope there's more chapters to follow...I'm gonna miss them.
Rich
Thanks guys.
Lots of little things to still get right...maybe even in the carburetor tuning. I will drive this set-up for awhile.
No idea about gas mileage. I need to...
-get the speedometer/odometer cable so they are working
-get the gas gauge working
-would like to get a tach (might even do a new gauge cluster at some point)
also...
-new front shocks are on the way
-need to dial-in the trans shift points for the power range (not shifting until I lift off a tad at WOT and I think it's revving too high--need a tach)
-the driver side exhaust manifold hits the engine mount when torquing to that side, especially in reverse. Need to get it back down to Walden Speed Shop to see what adjustment can be made. When the manifold hits/rests on the mount, it sounds like the trans has rocks in it...pretty annoying.
-need new tires, but last on the list.
As far as the steering...there is an element that is not as smooth as I would like due to the angle of the double u-joint...but it is so much better than it was before.
Engine is running good...AND THE FRONT AND REAR SWAY BARS ARE KILLER. The 'wagon corners as flat as you could expect. The Aerostar springs on the front work great with the stock spindles.
However...it's a driver, looks good, it sounds good and has some grunt, handles well, and it is getting attention around town. Many people have no idea what kind of car it is. But it's not perfect.
Rob moving that support bearing as close to the double as Gary has his (gasman826) will fix the issues you have now.
I felt the need for a tach, so I bought a cheap Sunpro at Auto Zone for about $40 and mounted it below the dash. Matches the other cheap gauges along there, too. Perfect spot for an easy and clean out-of-the-way look. I had to modify the mounting plate slightly and used a screw that is already holding the driver's side air vent shroud.
One more item off my list above...dang rain yesterday prevented the install of new fronts shocks, speedo cable, and first oil change (not to mention a new Project 302 video episode).
I also ordered a kit by Borgeson to drop the pressure in the GM-style power steering pump I used. The pump gives about 1350 psi and the steering is very fast, twitchy...especially at freeway speed. I believe that the ST Fabrications r&p unit likes about 950 psi...correct? Here is the kit I bought from Summit...another cheap adjustment...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/brg-899001
Tach is visible thru the steering wheel...love it...I did not want it on the column or on top of the dash on the speaker grill. I may do a new gauge cluster later, but for now...
Rob,
Don't complain about the rain, I'm jealous! In two days we have received 3' of snow here in Vermont!!! I think a snow blower is now permanently attached to me :005:!
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2012-12-30 14:06
Rob,
Don't complain about the rain, I'm jealous! In two days we have received 3' of snow here in Vermont!!! I think a snow blower is now permanently attached to me :005:!
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
Tim...
Ha...I figured I would a reply like that! We pay extra for the weather out here...hot rod season is all year!
Happy New Year...
Rob
Rob,
Happy New years to you and your family also, I pay extra for my weather here too :003: in #2 fuel oil.
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
Yeah, but just think how much gas money you save getting to good skiing...heck if those socal guys wanted to go (snow)skiing it would take them 4 tanks of gas.
LOL...I should talk..here in Texas we got the snow, but this is one place you just don't see cars going down the road with loaded ski racks.
Rich...
Just to clarify...I can be skiing in 45 minutes in one direction (Mountain High, Snow Summit) or surfing in 45 minutes the other at Newport or Huntington Beach. Could do both in the same day. We are very fortunate in SoCal with 4 other climates within a hour of this San Gabriel Valley/Inland Empire area...the mountains, the high desert (towards Las Vegas), low desert (Palm Springs), coastline. And we can drive our cars all year.
I did love things about living in Texas, too. There are things that suck about California...but home is home.
Couldn't resist adding me 2 cents... :002:
Rob
photo from the mid-80s in your backyard...
I guess the only perfect place to live is close to your family, my Mom, Brothers, my children, and grand kids are no more than a 30 min drive. I do live in paradise!!!
Tim :unitedstates:
Great day in Southern California for some work on the 'wagon. Grab a beverage and hang for about 13 minutes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYCmPCcb6hQ
Cheers...
Rob
Tom...no where in the world priettier than New England in the fall. Most of my side of the family is still up there.
Rob...LOL...com'on Dude...let's get with the program here..I lived in socal for 18 years...you cannot talk about all the great things about Socal without including the WOMEN in that discusion.
I actually got to work on my '57 for a few hours yesterday...been too cold here for over a week. I really need a new heater and insulation for my garage, but my wife and I are saving as much $ as posible for an upcoming car auction, so the heater will have to wait....so I envy your "good day to work in the garage."
Rob...enjoyed the video as usual. You ended the video with going for a test drive, but with no report on how it went....just in too big of a hurry to get to the brew I guess!! What shocks were you using, and how did you like them? Did the new speedo cable work out? Are you still working on the overly sensitive steering issue?
HA! Rich....
I was hoping there would be questions from watching the video. I ran out of memory on the camera, and I have been trying to keep these videos under 15 minutes.
-the shocks are KYB...just basic stuff ($25 each online) and they work well with the Aerostar springs that lower the car 3 inches on stock spindles...together with the bigger front sway bar.
-the new speedo cable worked great, but the speedometer needs servicing. It worked OK up to about 50mph, but the needle was bouncy. At freeway speeds...it went nuts, pegged over to the right, and squealed like a pig. Need to get it to a speedo shop, and hoping they can fix the fuel gauge, too. There is a shop in Riverside I am going to contact.
-I did get a kit from Borgeson that has shims to reduce the pressure in the power steering pump, but haven't tried it yet. I sent ST Fabrications an email, but no reply yet. I will resend the email.
-Of course...getting to the brew is always a good thing. I was going to film us at In-n-Out Burger, but was using alot of memory. Keeping these videos short keeps a variety of my friends watching whether they like cars or not. The more I think about it...I should have filmed at In-n-Out since other cool cars were driving in, too.
Oh man...been married 26 years...forgot about the women in California. (I actually see the beautiful half of the species all over the country!)
I urge all you guys to get the bigger front sway bar and add the rear sway bar! This 'wagon is handling like a slot car. really fun to drive!
Pay attention to this video at 10:58 into the clip...I could have gone thru those curves much faster...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYCmPCcb6hQ
Floor it!
Rob
Rich,
You are right, you can't beat New England in the fall. The older I get though, the more I like the warmer weather ! Rob, great video, I like the shocks , I'm going to have a set. Where did you get the rear sway bar?
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
Tim...
I bought the front and rear sway bar kit for the Station wagon/Ranchero here...
http://www.concoursparts.com/
-Go to Online catalogs link
-Go to the catalog for "1949 to 59 Big Cars"
-click on the "Sway Bar" link down the left side
Pick the one you need...there aren't any photos of them.
Then Walden Speed Shop installed them while they were also installing the rack and pinion, and 302. They said the install was easy.
Different car!
Rob
Rob,
Thanks for the info!
Tim :unitedstates:
Quote from: robhaerr on 2012-12-30 14:11
Tim...
Ha...I figured I would a reply like that! We pay extra for the weather out here...hot rod season is all year!
Happy New Year...
Rob
Yesterday I read about the weather you guys are having out there...did you forget to send your payment in?
Rich
LOL, :005: Rich.
Tim :unitedstates:
A couple of days of rain and temps in the 40s are just for making sure our jackets and sweatshirts still fit.
Rob
All those Adult beverages ta :unitedstates:ke a toll on the fit of those sweaters, and jackets! LOL
Tim
Rob they turned off the heat in visalia, Ca. It was 28 this morning.
Now you just need to adapt some 312 valve covers to that 302 like this guy did. Looks great.
(http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h395/lmspradlin/1212cct-38-o-classic-y-block-covers-engine.jpg)
I grew up with and have a T-Bird with those valve covers...and I like my 302 valve covers for the 'wagon!
Rob, I never heard, what was the reason the 302 was going through so much oil. Tim
My buddy Steve thinks we have an intake manifold gasket leak on the underside into the lifter valley. I think he is right, because I torqued the intake down a bit more and it seemed to run better with no hesitation when getting on it....air getting sucked in from the lifter valley along with some oil. But...it seems to be leaking again.
We used the gaskets that came with the Edelbrock heads. I have had to change both exhaust manifold gaskets, so it makes sense. The gaskets that came with the Edelbrock heads seemed kinda cheap...and they were.
We will do another episode of Project 302 when we pull the intake to change to good FelPro gaskets.
Cheers!
Rob
I wonder how you add the oil with the T-Bird valve covers?
Rob, I look forward to the next episode, and glad you have a handle on the problem! Tim
Quote from: wildhog on 2013-08-19 19:19
I wonder how you add the oil with the T-Bird valve covers?
Good question, I guess pull the distributor and dump it down. I would use a timing chain cover off a 260, it has an oil fill spout on it.
(http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/classic-tech/67744d1240629079-1964-1-2-260-v8-oil-filler-tube-no-breather.jpg)