This is going to make my life easier...Last weekend at the swap meet I saw this, but didn't have the cash to spare. It's an exact moulded plastic replica of the 4.6 engine block. They use them for displays..heads, valve covers, intakes, headers...whatever. They also use them for mocking up the setup in installs like we're doing. They weigh about 30 lbs., and have threaded inserts for all the outside components. They're normally pretty pricey at 450., but he had one that had some casting flaws that wouldn't have looked good for a display and said I could have it for a hundred. Called him yesterday, and he still had it, so it's on it's way!! Yeah.
I'm gonna call my tranny guy and see if he's got a case for a 4r70w tranny from an unrebuildable...I'll just gut it, can't weigh that much empty.
If I were a younger guy, I wouldn't be looking at this, but at my age it beats wrestling with all that weight and bulk in a garage with a dirt floor.
Good find! You are right about that bulk and weight of these engines and trans together; hard to roll around even on a concrete floor!
While you are thinking of making things fit, I recently saw a post on Modularford.com under the modular swap section concerning exhaust manifolds on the mark v111 engine. There are some good pictures of the Mach 1 manifolds and the clearance they give. I think the cobra manifolds are similar if not the same. You are probably familiar with this site; good information and possible good source for parts. Al
Al, I hadn't known about that site..I'll check it out. Thanks
I just talked to my transmision shop to see if they had a 4r70w case, or bad tranny. They don't but he told me the cases are the same as an aode, only the insides are different. Can anybody confirm that?
I'll look this weekend (unless someone beats me to it). I have both in my shop and will take some pic's and measure them.
Thanks Tanker. I'd appreciate that. Finding an aode case will for sure be a lot easier.
Al..went to that modularford site. Maybe I'm missinng something, but it only seemed to be a hub for dealers, cars and other stuff for sale. Couldn't find any tech info whatsoever.
Rich,
Go to the forumn site. If you put Modularfords in your search, it should come up with an option to go directly to the forumn site. Then you just have to scroll down thru all the categories until you get to modular swap section. There are probably a 100 pages regarding swaps to various vehicles (mostly to other mustangs), but a fair number are to early fords and a lot about the markvIII swaps. Someone posted a swap to a 57 custom the past month. Anyway, this site is guaranteed good reading and maybe even a idea or two! Al
OK...this time I found it. Strangely, I typed in exactly the same thing I did yesterday, but ended up in a diferent website. I flagged it and will go back later and do some reading. Thanks
Rich,
I went out and looked and realized that both tranny's I have are 4R70W. I did find this on the TCI website http://www.tciauto.com/tc/trans-dim/ The way this is listed it would appear that both transmissions at least share he same mounting and length dimensions if nothing else as they are listed together.
Thanks Tanker. That adds a little to the confirmation of both cases being the same. I appreciate the info.
Rich
Had another good score today...I guess spending the day sitting on your butt can be productive sometimes. I was just about to give up my search for a used set of Cobra exhaust manifolds and order some new ones, when a '99 set popped up on EPAY today. Bid on it, or buy the set now for 40 bucks...that was a no brainer. The one photo didn't show the shape of the ports, but it said Cobra, and dohc so they should be ok. I didn't want to lose them while I was waiting for a response to making sure it had oval ports, so I just bought them with a note not to complete the shipment if they had round ports. Hopefully....
I also ordered my oem type motor mounts from Rock Auto.
Real strange thing I was running into with the new exhaust manifolds, btw....right side was more than double the cost of the left side, although very similar. I double checked with my good counter salesman at O'reilly's, and he was surprised as well.
update..just got an email cofirmation that the ports are in fact oval. cool.
Got my mock up 4.6 "engine" today. Shipping weight with packing is 25 lbs! Got tracking numbers for both my motor mounts and the exhaust manifolds.
My opening sentence on this thread was about finding something to make my life easier. Yesterday afternoon I went out and piddled with the '57 for a while. I got the frame of the car leveled up side to side on jacks so I could get the engine mock-up block set in, leveled up side to side, and the oem '57 motor mount pads marked for cutting slots for the Mustang motor mounts, as Canadian Ranchero and Claiborn had done on theirs. After I got the block leveled and eyeballed to the frame pads, the first thing I noticed was it was exactly as the two guys had posted pics of...the left side sits in perfect, the right side a little off, but close.Same as theirs...I'll take that as a good sign! There was a detent bump on each of the mounts that I guess would fit into a hole on the Mustang mounting pads, but were interfering with it sittting down properly on the '57. I yanked the block out, ground the bumps off, and threw the block back in. I marked the pads for cutting, yanked the block off and cut the slots to a minimum depth, and threw the block back in. That's about as far as I can go until I get my front sump oil pan and tranny case.
Not a whole lot of work done, but it took me about 2 hours including leveling the car. Last night I got to thinking..man just that little bit of work to get the mounts ready...what would it have taken if I had to do that little bit of work without my mockup block!!!!
got the 4R70W tranny gutted out, and not in the pic, but installed the oil pans on the engine block and tranny as well.
Dropped it in place on the '57 for a quick look. The bellhousing is hitting the rubber boot on the Rack and pinion, so I'm going to drop the rack to get it out of the way and not damage it until I get the engine set in. I may or may not have to move the rack forward 1/2 inch or so...it's that close, but for sure the engine won't be able to be dropped in with the tranny attached with the rack mounted.
Unfortunatly, I'm running out of available time to work on the car..our lumber, windows, siding, etc are all here waiting for a long term break in the weather so I can start the next phase of the house rebuilding.(ugh!!) When it gets too hot for me to work outside, I'll be able to get back to the '57.
I have to drop the rack every time the engine goes in or out. I just drop the four bolts and let it hang. I would consider moving the engine back a 1/2" rather than the rack. Steering geometry might be more important than engine placement. Rearword engine placement would also help with radiator clearance.
Your right...I absolutly don't want to move the rack, and my guess is I won't have to. It's looking at this point it is only hitting the rubber boot on the rack. I've still got a ton of careful measuring to do...particularly with the heads and the stuff that is mounted on the backside of the heads. I haven't fully digested what all of that stuff is yet..sensors, etc...and whether or not it can all be moved if necessary. Right now I'm just trying to get the "engine block" stiiing down on the mounts so I can get an idea of front to back angle, and how to make/modify the tranny crossmember. Now that I have the tranny case to work with, I can proceed with finishing up the engine mounting configuration.
My whole point with this post was having the plastic mockup engine block, and the gutted tranny case sure makes this part of the project much more doable for an old man with minimal equiptment and working space. My next step along this path is to find some old salvage aluminum angle..about 4 x 4 x 1/4 would be nice...and mount them to the plastic block to replicate the heads and exhaust manifold mounting. My end goal of course is to have everything prepped with this lightweight stuff, so I can just drop in the actual engine/tranny as one unit ONCE and done.
Just use cardboard. If you're lucky, you might find a box the right size. Cardboard is cheap, plentiful, forgiving, cuts easy and lighter than aluminum. Duct tape it in place. If its wrong, throw it away and start over.
As far as the transmission cross member, several times I have used the donor car's modified to mate up to new frame. One of the issues with the '57 frame was not only placement but the blind threads in the frame. Another issue is that '57s had 1-1/2" exhaust pipes. The original cross member does not have reliefs in it for 3" dual exhaust pipes especially for frame dragging. I made mind out of 3" channel and 6" box tubing. 6" pipe would probably work. I also saved the OEM parking brake cable mount and arm. Switched over to Lokar cables the rest of the way for the conversion into the SVO disc brake setup.
Not sure what you were sugesting with the cardboard...I'm guessing since you said "cheaper than aluminum", and I was talking alum angle as a mock-up substitute for the heads that's what you were suggesting the cardboard for. the only reason I was using al. angle was to have something sturdy enough to mount the exhaust manifolds to, so I could do the clearance mods necessary to the control arms...hell, 4 x 4's would work to. Need to check into it further..don't even know yet what angle the exaust manifold mounting surface is in relation to the deck surface.
I saved the tranny crossmember out of the Mark to look at posibly modifying it for the '57. I haven't measured, but it probably is substantialy shorter than the '57. The nice thing is it does have the exhaust pipe clearance built in, and actually has an exhaust pipe bracket as well.
Rich,
I'm thinking that I may want to rent your mock up rig. I wonder how many stamps it will take to mail that to Denver?
Rich
LOL...probably books. I'm going to have it tied up for quite a while with my detour on the house. I think you said it would be a winter project anyways, so maybe by then I'll be done with it. We'll keep in touch on it and figure something out and a way to get it to you.
Rich