I've read through all the posts about doing this swap and it seemed like a great idea to me. So I scrounged through the local pull a part and grabbed an explorer disc setup. I did all the slotting and such to get the brackets and backing plates to line up correctly, replaced the axle flange hardware and so on. I finally got all the new shoes and pads and hardware plus some new axle seals and bearings and went to assemble this thing tonite, and I am having issues. The spring system for the parking brake shoe setup seems to be major overkill in my opinion but I want a parking brake so I'm sticking with it. My question is how in the heck do you assemble these things?? I have them assembled on the backing plates and ready to go on the housing, but with them installed that way there is no rooms for a socket to tighten down the axle nuts around the brake hardware. And trying to install the shoes and hardware after the axle installed seems to be impossible. The outside diameter of my axle flange is equal to the outside diameter of the shoes with very little room between the flange and the shoe to do anything let alone try and install this absurd spring system. If anyone has any input on this it is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Jim
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/57%20Ranchero/20130707_214235_zpsf8ca4047.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/57%20Ranchero/20130707_214227_zpsc3d9fdb0.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/57%20Ranchero/20130630_141816_zps8d5893d0.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/57%20Ranchero/20130613_215555_zpseccbebc7.jpg)
Axle bearing spacers??? Putting on the backer plate nuts is a challenge to ones patience.
This whole process has been a challenge to my patience. The only easy part so far was slotting the holes and fitting everything to the axle housing. Getting everything straight and lined up then hunting down some new parts and all that wasn't terrible but no fun regardless. Not to mention finding someone with the ability to instal new axle bearings, that was a great load of fun. But if I have to assemble this drum with the axles in, I fear I will end up bending everything after I get so frustrated I bash the crap out of it with a sledge hammer. But sitting and thinking about it all day today, I'm not seeing any way around it, I'm only seeing assemble the drum after the axle is in.
I may be misunderstanding what the problem is, but can't you tighten the retaining bolts through the access hole in the axle?
There is a hole in the axle flange but no room to squeeze a socket between the shoe and onto the axle flange nuts. Where the shoe rides on the backing plate and where the axle hardware comes through the backing plate its real tight against the shoe. It will get on and tighten down just need to get a socket on there. Thinking some more, I think I can grind some clearence into the shoe and not hurt anything, at least enough to get a socket on the nut and tighten it down. Wish I had thought of that last nite hahaha.
Sometimes it's just best to walk away from it for a short while..or a long while. Can't tell you how many times I've woken up in the morning with a solution, or figured something out while I was taking a long drive.
I'm not familiar with this set up but looking at the picture it looks like only two bolts would be a problem? It looks like you could expand the adjuster to move the shoes out, I'm not sure if you have access to the adjuster after it is installed to close it back down. Just a thought
Will a "crow's foot" work?
Quote from: gasman826 on 2013-07-08 06:36
Axle bearing spacers??? Putting on the backer plate nuts is a challenge to ones patience.
Let me restate this previous post, axle bearing spacer is a requirement not a question. Did you install alxe bearing spacers?
It sounds like you have the rest figured out.
It is a frustating upgrade but you will be very pleased with the braking performance and parking brake.
In that case then no I have no axle bearing spacers. I wasn't aware I needed anything. I have the new bearings pressed on the axles and that has a retaing ring on top of that, but after that no nothing else that could be called a spacer. Are you saying I need to space the axle flange out away from the backing plate assembly??
Mine do. I've read about them in the install articles. Check with the axle sites...Strange, Mossier, Currie...
Since you are so close with installation, slide the rotor on and see if it bottoms out against the backing plate.
When I ordered my axles from Strange, the Explorer/SVO rear disc brake question was asked and axle bearings were provided with the axles with instructions to install the spacers.
A related question...can the oem emergency brake handle function with the explored disc/parking brake mod? At least the front cable back to the oem cable bracket that attaches to the tranny crossmember? I would guess that new cables from that bracket rearward would have to be fabricated with the correct connectors and lengths.
I looked on the Currie website and found the spacers. I also did some more reading here and there and found the mention of the spacers. I have had the rotor on and it does drag on the backing plate a litte. I had just chalked it up to things not being bolted down entirely and the backing plate being bent some. I will check the other side as that backing plate is perfectly straight and see if I have the same issues. But at $27 the spacers won't break the bank.
And Rich, you can use the stock ebrake stuff, just need to get the back cables with the correct end. Currie sells a kit for this. I haven't got that far with my build yet so I havent fully investigated everything in regards to ebrake. When I have more answers I will post them up.
Parking brake? I have nothing OEM but still have the original parking brake handle and main, forward cable and linkage.
Great..thanks for the info. I need a new front cable and didn't want to order one until I confirmed I could actually use it.
Does anyone have a souce for stainless front parking brake cables? Inline tube makes them for many Fords, but not ours. I can get oem steel cables from Dennis Carpenter.
One odd thing I noticed in the DC catalog...rear cables they list as fitting all except conv. and retracs. Why would they be different, and how is it the same rear cables can be used on Fairlane hardtops and Customs, etc.? Wouldn't you think the rear cables would be differentiated by short or long wheelbases?
quote me: "how is it the same rear cables can be used on Fairlane hardtops and Customs, etc.? Wouldn't you think the rear cables would be differentiated by short or long wheelbases?"
Sunliners and Skyliners have X frame.
yu so smaaat..LOL..my New England accent slipping out.
Ok, so I'm really trying not to be completely stupid about this, but I have a question. I ordered the spacer rings from Currie and got them in the mail today. As I read the description from the Currie website it says the rings go between the bearing and the retainer plate. Now on my axles, my bearings are pressed on to the axle and the retainer plate just kind of floats around between the bearing and the flange. Now my questions is, how does a spacer between a fixed bearing and a floating plate move the axle any?? The bearing determines how far into the rear end it goes, not the retainer plate. And if I put the ring in the end of the axle tube, I dont see the bearing being allowed to fully seat in the tube and resulting in only about half of the bearing being supported. I'm seriously scratching my head here.....
Disregard my previous post. I was misunderstanding what the exact purpose of what the spacer was for. It has nothing to do with getting the rotor away from the backing plate, it's to keep the bearing seated fully in the axle housing, and give the retainer plate something to clamp onto since the drum plates are much much thinner than the disc plates. Now that my brain hurts from thinking so much, i'm just going to put this thing together and see where I end up. Thanks for listening to me gripe.
The bearing has to come off. The spacer goes on first and then the bearing is pressed on. This moves the axle outward about a 1/4" and will move the rotor away from the backing plate.
We will have to agree to disagree then, I have read everything I can everywhere, and everything says the same thing, that spacer has exactly jack and squat to do with getting the axle flange spaced out from the backing plate and everything to do with getting the bearing to stay in the hole. Everything I'm finding says there are different axles in different applications and thats where the spacing difference comes from. I'm going to have to pull my axles back out and according to the directions I have seen I need to measure from the back of the bearing to the back of the axle flange, anything less than 2.3" won't get the flange out far enough to clear the ebrake assembly, which is the issue I am facing now. I got everything to clear sort of but once I bolted the wheel down, there was no budging it as the rotor was jammed tight against the backing plate, with the spacer rings installed. A couple of 1/2" flat washers on the studs between the rotor and the flange helped but I'm not a fan of that setup at the moment. A quick read through this confirms my issue with the rotor dragging
http://www.mustangandfords.com/howto/28733_bolt_on_rear_disc_brake_conversion/
Ok so a phone call to Currie today confirmed my suspicions. The built in brake offset in my axles is not enough, and that is why I am having clearance issues. I have come up with 3 solutions to this problem. Different axles, a spacer between the axle flange face and the rotor, or having a spacer made up to go on the axle before the bearing. That last option would solve all my issues, but would require removal of the bearings and finding or making a spacer ring of some sort. I think for the time being since I have some wheel spacers on the shelf from something or another, I'm going to run that and see what happens. Suffice it to say, my experience has been a far cry from slot the backing plates, bolt on and go. I think my next go round will invlove me and some flat plate steel some cutting tools and a caliper with a built in ebrake and this little drum can go in the trash. Just my opinons of course. Sorry for all the gripes.
The Ford SVO rear disc brake kit IS the Explorer rear disc brake. Check this kit and several others include the spacer. Currie, Strange, Mosier will sell just the spacer. The disc brake kit requires 2.5" between the bearing face and the rotor face of the axle. Most drum axles measure 2.25". Thus the 1/4" spacer. Some PU truck axle bearings are thicker and will be enough.
GET THE SPACERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have the spacers, I ordered them directly from Currie. I installed them and they did not change thebrake offset in the slightest. Maybe you and I are talking about 2 different spacers, I don't know. These are what I ordered.
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/productsRE.aspx?id=3044
And here is a pic of them
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/ce6012-spacer_zps512c57e2.jpg)
I measured my brake offset and it measures in around 2 1/8". I have a theory as to why I am coming up short as opposed to seemingly everyone else that has done this conversion with no issues. My rear is a big bearing rear and I believe that for some reason the brake offset on a small bearing is different from an early big bearing. My theory is further backed by numerous statements I have run across all over the web in my research that this conversion works for all small bearing axles and late big bearing axles. This was also confirmed by speaking to the tech line at Currie today.
But I will stand by my statements and from seeing with my own two eyes, the spacer I ordered that is pictured above is only to take up the slack from the difference in the thickness of the backing plates/ caliper mount brackets and has absolutely nothing to do with brake offset spacing. The spacer I ordered pictured above is the exact same O.D. as my bearing and in turn the exact same as the hole I.D. in the caliper mounting bracket/backing plate that the bearing fits through. If that spacer was not in place theoretically once the axle retainer plate was bolted down, since it floats on the axle, the axle could slide in and out of the rear end. That spacer is there to take up the 1/4" thickness difference in the backing plate and prevent the axle from moving in and out of the the hole. With the spacer installed between the retainer plate and the bearing there is now no where for the bearing to go once it is all tightened down. Perhaps it works differently on a small bearing rear, but on my big bearing rear that is it's sole purpose and function. Now if I was to stick that spacer in the end of the axle tube and then stick the axle in, that would change my spacing as it would shove the axle a 1/4" outward, but then the bearing wouldn't seat in the end of the axle tube fully. I suppose it could ride in that 1/4" thick backing plate but I'm not a huge fan of that idea.
Either way, I'm really not trying to piss anyone off or doubt anything I am being told, I am just making statements based on what I am finding with my setup, maybe things work differently for others, I can't say, this is all just what I am finding. And it all really matters little I have the rear end assembled, with the spacers in their correct positioning, and a few flat washers on the lug studs between the face of the axle flange and the back of the rotor and everything spins freely now. It will stay that way until I find a set of axles the correct overall length and the correct brake offset. Thanks for the help with this guys, it is appreciated.
*Update*....Made a trip to the junkyard today for another set of these brakes for the Del Rio wagon, decided to grab the parking brake cables and see if I could make them work. Well low and behold wasnt hard at all. They need a bit of tweaking, especially at the trans cross member where it ties into the cable from the parking brake handle, but it works, that's all I was really after. I didn't use anything from the Explorer except the cables themselves, the rest of the parts are original to the car and original mount points. And as always...here's the pics, enjoy!!
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/20130914_193424_zps8e2313e4.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/20130914_193416_zpsc47115ba.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/20130914_193409_zps4d27508e.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/20130914_193352_zpsd0ca5b06.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/20130914_193347_zpsf3295b69.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/20130914_193341_zpsc704e3fa.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/20130914_193335_zpsd313af88.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/cableguyjjs97/20130914_193328_zps3d97c9d5.jpg)
You shouldn't have any problem, your are the "CABLEGUY" :003:.
Last weekend I was talking to a guy at the swap meet that sells disc brake kits. he told me that the 57 hand brake won't work well with a disc conversion, it requires a foot operated pedal type that has more leverage. Don't know know if that's right or wrong, just what I was told..
It will work if hooked up like OEM. Must have leverage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm just curious...Is the parking brake on one wheel only? I assume also it's the traditional little drum brake type affair inboard from the rotor.
His first posts show the typical drum type brake shoes. Looks like something off a Go-Kart :003:
Quote from: gasman826 on 2013-09-15 07:33
It will work if hooked up like OEM. Must have leverage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just what I was told that the foot type ratchets and has more leverage. . I don't know how they work I don't own a car with one..:dontknow:
Yeah it does have the little drum inside the rotor hat. And it does need a bit more leverage, pulling on the handle will get the brake to set, but you need 2 hands and one hell of a pull. But like I said, needs tweaking, but works for the most part. I'll figure something out, just a matter of finding parts, or finding the right parts to make it work I should say. But it is both wheels Rich, I know looking at it doesn't look like it is, but thats the goal anyways. It's weird to me as well, not quite sure how it does its thing but it's set up just like it was factory on the Explorer. Bottom line, needs more work, but the basics are in place.
wasn't sure because I only saw the one cable to the back coming off the bracket the front cable is connected to....maybe I missed something in the other photos, or you just don't have the second one hooked up yet.
Ford piggy backed the two cables. If you look real close at one of the detail pics you can see the little clip on the front one that hooks up the back cable. Clear as mud?????
The picture looks like the front cable is hooked directly to the rear cables without using the lever on the cross member. Without using the lever, it'll take two men and a boy to activate the parking brake.
Gary..you are correct. The way the swivel bar is attached eliminates the leverage advantage of the oem design.
Cableguy...that bracket for the rear cables mounts thru the long bracket very close to the other end. You can see that hole in your 3rd pic.
I'll post a pic of mine.....and hopefully mine is correct LOL The unused rod in the pic is the new one I got from Dennis carpenter that won't work.
Oh yeah I'm aware of how it was factory, it was still factory when I took it apart, still have those parts as well. Just the cables were to long to work in the factory location and setup, and not enough adjustment in the threaded rod. I need to reconfigure the factory stuff with some hardware to get it to work. Cause your right, the amount of force required to pull it now is absurd. I can get it to set, but man it takes alot. Just need to make a run through either the Home Depot or Fastenal and see what I can dig out of the parts bins. I have a few ideas in my head, but it's reeeaaalllyyyy hard to work within the constraint of don't do anything that can't be undone and put back to stock. Makes modifying the original parts to work as needed very very difficult. Still a work in progress, but it's dang close.
You can straddle that 'return to original' fence for only so long before you take it in crotch. Once one original part is modified, it's a ROD! And it ain't ever going back.
Trust me I hear ya. But it is what it is and thats how some want it, so thats the constraint I work under. I don't see it as a terrible thing perssay, just takes a bit more thinking somedays is all. Sometimes I enjoy the challenge mostly, sometimes not so much, but it'll get there, no worries on that. Sometimes I take a certain pride in being able to "outhink" a problem rather than just grab a welder and a cutoff wheel and carve and weld everything in sight as opposed to thinlk up a bolt on bolt off solution that can be undone at anytime I choose. The car will never go back to stock, but that's not the point...it could should anyone ever so choose. As stated before, its a challenge, sometimes good sometimes not so good.
...good thing is there are no rules....if there are, just ignore them.
Quote from: gasman826 on 2013-07-11 07:04
Parking brake? I have nothing OEM but still have the original parking brake handle and main, forward cable and linkage.
Wow, that looks like a really sweet hot rod. Would love to see more pics and hear more details if you're willing. Looks like a Tremec trans?
TKO600 with road race overdrive.
Computer challenged right now (upgrading hardware and OS).
Lots of pictures already posted. Click on my userID...takes you to my user profile. Click on POSTS and you'll get a list of my posts with pictures.
Adding part numbers for the entire system to this post as well.
All parts in stock and available from Summit. NiCopp brake line I got off eBay (cheaper and comes with all the flare nuts) and master cylinder from Rockauto.
front brakes
-3an 90* female to -3an straight female
18" - EAR-63011718ERL x2
caliper fitting - RUS-641311x2
frame fitting - RUS-641291 x 3 1 fitting to be used where the hard line ends before the rear end
rear brakes
hoses - 30" female thread straight fitting - EAR-63010130ERL x 3
caliper fittings - RUS-643961 x5 3 fittings to be used in the tee block
tee - EAR-972050ERL x1
prop valve - SUM-G3910 x1
25' 3/16 copper nickel line
3/8-24 flare nuts x 9
7/16 -24 flare nut x1
Granada master - Rockauto Cardone Select - 131602
Here's the description I found about the disk setup.
The rotors have the popular 5-hole, 4.5" diameter passenger car bolt pattern. Caliper mounting brackets fit the popular 8.8" Truck / 9" Late Ford axle housings with 2" x 3.56" pattern and big 3.15" diameter bearing. This kit is designed for vehicle installations with a 2.5" brake gap (housing flange-to-axle shaft flange).
If the housing flange-to-axle shaft flange the prob, what if you installed longer wheel studs and added a .25" spacer that covers the entire axle shaft flange. I would think that would allow for proper clamping of the wheel/disk and give you the clearance you need.
Just to keep adding more about rear disc brake swap options...the '57 cars have small bearing rear ends, wagons and Rancheros have Old Big Bearing rear ends, '74ish 9" rears went to the New Big Bearing (Torino). The Explorer swap option fits the New Big Bearing/Torino flange bolt pattern. The Explorer disc brakes are NOT a bolt on for '57 small bearing rear ends. Modifications required. Several '57s have been upgraded with Crown Vic/Grand Marquis 4.6 module engines. Usually, the entire donor car was available for parts picking. The late '90s and early 2000 CV rear disc brakes will bolt on with some work.
Found the old thread that Iamflashman did on the explorer (brakes only)installation
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=2044.0
I just finished another Explorer rear disc brake conversion on a 9". All the answers are already here but scattered all over and few pictures. I installed on the Raunch Wagon so the rear is the original Early Big Bearing (EBB). EBB and Late Big Bearing/Torino (LBB) are both the same size bearing but the retainer bolt pattern is different. The '95-'01 Explorer/Mountaineer are the donors. The parts are available new for about $400. I used the backing plate as a jig. Two bolts will align and two need to be drilled. I used an old bearing to center the backing plate. An aftermarket pair of LBB bearing retainers are needed because the OEM EBB retainers will interfere with the backing plate. A pair of bearing spacers will be needed to make up the greater thickness of the backing plate so the retainer can tighten a bearing to the axle housing. Early Ford axles have 2.089" axle 'hang out' and some information recommends as much as 2.250" hang out for this conversion. Currie recommends 2.188". My axles have the 2.089" hang out so the Currie spacers go in the axle housing. This placement of the spacer moves the axle out about .210" and that leaves more than enough spline in the side gears. If one had the longer hang out axles, the spacer would go on the outside of the bearing. All this has to do with the parking brake shoes running in the rotor hat and the rotor centering in the caliper.
If the axle bearings are in good condition...move on...if not, this is the time to change. Mine were a little rough so I pressed on new ones. Hang the backing plates. New seals. Spacer. Slide in the axle and secure with the new bearing retainer.
Pop the hat on. New pads and calipers. Adjust the parking brake. New hoses, bleed and hook up the parking brake cables.
The tread width has increased .210" plus the increased thickness of the rotor...1/4-3/8" per side. If tires were close, now they are really close.
Rich,
Converts and Retracts have the X frame with different routing.
Disc brake E-brakes are a pain. I'm fitting SuperCoupe discs to my Fairmont/Zephyr now.
Ron.
I checked out a set of CV, GM, and Lincoln rear disc backing plates. They are the same as Small Bearing 9s. The rest of the components are the same as Explorer. Just another alternate conversion source.
LOKAR makes a parking brake cable kit that makes cable routing easier.