I am new to the forum, but have been reading some of the messages and it seems like a good place for some info. I am building a 57 conv. resto mod. The bare frame has been re welded and there is not one piece of stock suspension under it. The rear end is a triangular 4-link with disc brakes a large sway bar and air ride. The front end has tubular a-arms disc brakes, a huge sway bar and air ride. I have been waiting for my Wurthit designs steering for some time now, and finally got my money back. Not sure what happened there, but I fear the worst. can no longer get ahold of him, and his web site is down again. What I am looking for is some details on his rack system. what rack he started with, and any pictures of the system. I understand dearborn classics is going to offer one that looks just like ricks, but I don't want to wait. been waiting too long as it is. any help will be appreciated
88-94 Chevy Calivere are a rear steer rack with the inner rod connections at the center of the rack
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Re: 52-54 Ford owners sound off!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdroog
Thanks for the heads up. Looks like I need to do a junkyard scrounge.
NP...
did a little searching in my notes (the ones i could find that arent still packed in a box someplace) and in some of my saved links etc...
the rack you need is as i mentioned, a center take off unit... the most popular and prolly easiest to find is the cavalier unit, years 86-95...NOT the later ones as i had mentioned before!!!
FAST ratio racks:
NAPA part # NRP22109
A1 Cardone # 22109
ACDelco # 3616340
CV Unlimited # RP239HD
SLOW ratio racks:
NAPA # NRP22108
A1 Cardone # 22108
ACDelco # 3616318
CV Unlimited # RP239
APSCO # 4513
price, WITH core is round $110, so boneyard pickin' aint really worth the effort for the $25 core charge you'll save IMO after payin $5 to get onto some yards and the screwin around gettin it off the car plus $15 for the part... your mileage may vary
the part that is gonna require the most screwing around with is the bracket that bolts to the takeoff on the center of the rack and receives the inner tie-rods ... take a look at a stock setup where the inner rods mount to the center link, and compare to the mount points on the R&P... the R&P rod end mounts will be facing front center on the rack, and need to be bottom center of the rack, so the bracket is a short stubby "T" then bent over at 90*
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thanks cool57 this will help alot. I spent the day measuring and looking through books at the local napa store and may have something else going to. I jerked a rack off of a 97 lumina at the salvage yard today, and it may work also. I will take a look at the reacks you mentioned in the morning. I tried to put some pictures off the frame and suspension on the site this evening but the pictures wouldent load. I have to take other pictures with less pixels. thanks again.
rockymountaincustom If you can find a copy of Custom Rodder Magazine (July 2005) it has an install article on Wurth's rack and pinion kit with install pictures and pictures of all brackets,the rack,and misc. pieces. Rick,s web site disappeared a couple of weeks ago with no explanation,don't know if it was due to health or financial problems. To bad, everybody that installed his kit said it handled great.Maybe he could find someone to produce it for him or sell parts list and bracket configuration to the do-it-yourself guys. I've been looking around for a power rack and not much out there unless you want to cut your frame rails off at the firewall and weld in a stub (Fatmans). Skip
I don't subscribe to custom rodder, but after going to the web site and seeing the cover, I new I had seen that cover. sure enough I was getting that mag in 05. The coolest part was I actually found it. I ordered the cavalier rack this morning, but I am still getting the parts I ordered yesterday. That rack is a end pull and if I got all my measurements right the inner andouter tie rods I ordered will make this other rack work also. Back when you could get ahold of rick wurth, he told me they had problems with his setup not working with air ride. This might solve the problem when you lower the car at a car show the short tie rods will be at less of an angle and will not get bound up.
Called Dearborn Classics today and asked about their rack & pinion setup for 57 Fords, they said that they had discontinued it as of January 31st, there were to many problems with it.Appearantly their kit wasn't a direct copy of Rick Wurths.Anyway,that's one less choice we don't have.So I guess I'll keep looking. SKIP
i talked to them about a year ago and they said that they were getting it from rick.
that makes sence , when ya read both adds their almost word for word. goes to show ya , ya just never know
I built a bracket today that cradles an end pull rack off a Lumina. The car I am building is a major custom job and I am not to worried about it being a bolt on set up, so I welded it to the cross member. actually it is just tacked into place for right now. The rack is alot smaller and compact, and when I get the inner and outer tie rods and finish mocking it up I will post some pictures of it. I really like the way it looks so far. and it would not be that hard to drill holes and make this system a bolt on. will keep you guys posted.
Just to let you know My car is the one that Rick found out that his design didn't work with air ride, I was riding it pretty low going down the freeway and the tie rod hit the line and broke it. I also fixed how it was designed, so that I can now ride it low and not hit the line. pictures at that time where sent to rick. I also had changed the line ends that he had originally had for ones that tucked the lines a little better.
FYI, I recently pulled the rack from a 92 or93 grand am , looks just like the cavalier piece. Center pull, came off real easy after removing the brake booster. Mark
Custom57, got pictures. I will be riding pretty low on Rick's previous design and want to make sure I make the proper mods on this rack... Any help would be appreciated.
Dan
I know this is a old topic but I will ask anyway. Dantudor57 ( or anyone )did custom57 ever reply on what he changed on the design of his rack and pinion to keep anything from hitting the lines on the rack when it is ridding low? Or have you or anyone made any modifications on the rack design to allow the car to ride at a lower stance.My car sits pretty low and I love the way it sits and looks and drives with the rack and pinnion setup .Mine has the Wildhog kit on it, not the Wurths.I have only had my 57 done and on the road a little over 1 1/2 months and got up under it this past weekend to see how everything looked after taking a 4hr trip each way 2 weekends ago to the all ford show in pigeon forge tenn. I love the way it drives with the rack & pinion but I did notice that it looked as if something had bent or moved one of the lines that runs along the rack unit itself.I bent it back but Im thinking in time this might give me a problem,so this is why I looked back at some of these older topics to see if anyone else running the rack setup with their car lowered was having any issues. If any of you have experenced this can you tell me what you done to help it. Thanks Tarheel57 :unitedstates:
I made mine but is similar to the available kits. I have air bags, Granada spindles, OEM control arms (slightly modified). The fluid line on the right end of the rack contacted the tie rod adjuster sleeve(swedged ends). I bent the line out of the way. With the suspension bottomed out, there is no interference.
Tarheel, don't know if you have room or would want one, but we would bolt on an aluminum skid plate on the dirt cars, Mark
I thought about something like that to protect the flat plate that is mounted onto the bottom of the rack that the sterring rods fasten to.The only thing out on the highway this could ride up/slide on the pavement if If came up on an area were the center of the lane was raised up,(we have this alot around here were heavy trucks and trailers sit at stop lights and signs. Tarheel57
I'd like to see a picture. Your lines are on the bottom side of the rack? As you can see from the picture, my lines face forward and up. I have also run aground on the humped asphalt. My low point is the Lakewood belhousing. Boy, does it plow a furrow! I put screen over the vent holes to keep pieces out of the belhousing.
Gasman826 , my lines are not on the bottom,they run at about the 9 oclock position if you were looking at it from the end.These are the 2 lines that run along the rack and come already on the rack.My car is a little loud and I think at some point I let that flat center plate mounted on the bottom of the rack maybe bottom out and didnt notice it.Im thinking this might have moved up enough to make these lines move and bend.There is not enough line to really move them out of the way like I would like to.I may look into making some longer lines were I can get them out of the way a little more.Thanks :unitedstates:
That area is a little busy. My lines are 90 degrees (+/_) to the ground facing forward. I set the engine quite low. The bottom of the oil pan is lower than the OEM front cross member. I was trying to conserve as much carb to hood clearance as possible. The lowest point on the bottom side of the car is the seam on the Lakewood bellhousing. Next is the oil pan (couple of dents from the foreheads of woodchucks). The rack is tucked up behind the front cross member. If something hit your adapter plate, a skid plate may be in order. The front cross member is handy and would be a prime candidate for a skid plate location. But if you're hitting stuff hard enough to shove debris up behind the front cross member and bend your steering linkage, a skid plate might not be the modification you require. Maybe trading for a Sherman would be more practical. I'd still like to see a picture.
Well, I'll post a pic of mine. Cut down the Mustang steering shaft components, did a little grinding to fit the r&p double u-joint just temporarily, because unfortunatly the Mustang shaft is 1/16 under the 3/4 bearing support and u-joint...but it gets me close enough to check for component lengths before I have machining done to get it right. I was thinking of running a bolt-on 1/8 x 4 crs plate across the opening where the thin sheetmetal cover is and using the Mustang firewall column support.
Opinions are apreciated...never done a steering system before. Am I close with the u-joint positioning?...at lease enough so that I can have a shaft machined and welded to replace the ribbed-looking one. will the firewall support be adequate?
First photo shows the u-joint on ass end of steering column which gives alot of latitude on where the column can exit the firewall.
Also, since I posted this pic... I found some really neat clips to keep my wiring organized as I'm going along. They are self adhesive and hold like crazy, and snap open and closed easily to add or move wires. They will help keep the wires and my brain organized as I'm going along. when I'm done, I'll probably change them out for the more permanent type.
If it is turning without bind, maybe its time to leave it alone. You did ask for opinions and they say everyone has one. If you were to make any changes/improvements. I would consider straightening the upper, single, factory joint and putting more angle in the double joint. That double will almost make a 90 without binding and that upper factory joint looks a little distressted. The factory bearing/support looks like a great idea.
Rich look at the support bearing location on Gasman's installation. I feel yours needs to be moved closer to the double juoint to prevent "lumpy" spots (binding under load) and premature failure of one of the joints.
Gary, Bill: thanks for the input...that was exactly what I needed.
Bill...I have to get the bearing support bracket redrilled to lower the support closer to the double joint as you pointed out, but I'm on it!
Gary...I picked up a length of Borgeson polished 3/4 ss shaft and a swivel bearing firewall support at Parr Automotive in Ok. city yesterday. It'll give more adjustment than I would have been able to get with the factory piece shown in the pic.They did not have a s.s. single dd joint, so I'll get one ordered. I also picket up some 1/8 x 3" plate stock to make a bracket for the firewall support. With the u-joint on the back end of the steering column, I can move the shaft substantially without putting too much angle on the inner one, but substantially straightening out the angle on the lower one, as you mentioned.
One more question before I order the rest of the stuff...Do you think a Borgeson vibration dampener/u-joint combo is a worthwhile item (110. plain, 155 s.s.), or should I just wait and see down the road if I need it. This would be an alternative to the rag-joint.
I'm going to pick up a 3/4 wooden dowel to get my configuration correct..that Borgeson 22" plished shafting is 63 bucks..only want to buy it once!
Hopefully I understood Bill and Gary correctly..is this is closer to where I should be??
Towel is making it easier to see, hiding clamps/clutter to hold thing close to in place
Looking really good. As my pictures show, there is no vibration dampener. The rack is mounted in rubber so the only vibration/harshness could come up the tie rods and the rack is full of oil. I'm using an OEM Lincoln column. I have never felt vibration or heard noise related to the steering.
I noticed that you are doing the steering mock up with out the engine installed. A great time to do it. Before you cut once...measure twice. Does everything clear the steering? Engine, headers, what nots....
Nope, Rich your intial picture looked good. That support fitting is what needs to be moved toward the double u-joint. What you showed in the posting was fine, just shorten the steering shaft side of things a little and move that support bearing as close to the double as you can. Your last picture looks like the column is now cocked out a little.
OK..got a high quality wooden dowel from Lowe's..LOL..sure is a lot cheaper than the Borgensen one. Bill, I moved the steering shaft back out a little ways, but kept it in a lower position to eliminate some of the angle on the single joint that Gary was talking about. Moved the bearing support closer to the double joint...maybe a little too close. Also a pic of the adjustable firewall support.
Perfecto! Looks really good and there will be no binding or "lumpy" feeling with a load on.
Awesome!!...I'll hopefully get it finished up before too long...the wife is starting to push a little to get me back onto the house projects, and my nephew is coming over to help me install the biggest air conditioner I could find for my garage to help fight the 100 plus temps we've been having.
Thanks Bill
I got a matching stainless single joint ordered from Unisteer...Sparky's (S & T Fabrications) source for the u-joints he supplies with the kit. Brandon at unisteer informed me that the u-joints are in fact stainless steel, but their shafting is a plated milder steel. Once that comes in and I can take a break from my episode of "this old house...a rebuild", I'll get the borgeson s.s. shafting done and figure out the firewall support.
OK...picked up a couple of construction angle pieces from Lowe's and a piece of formed angle and got a start on the support bracket. Now I need to get the shafting done so I can finalize it's location before I do the final tweeking for the firewall support location. once that's finalized I'm going to try and make a sheetmetal cover for the big hole....Hmmm hindsight is wonderful...I sure wished I had closed off that steering column hole way back when.
A few steps closer. I got the Unisteer joint in and the Borgensen DD shafts fabed up. I moved the single joint a little further outboard to make sure there was no interference with engine components....and as near as I can tell there does not seem to be any binding....if I disconnect the double joint from the rack, I can turn everything easily with my fingers.
Flipping the firewall bracket around so the formed angle stiffners are facing inside will make fabing a hole cover a little easier, and I've got to build up the frame bracket 3/16 to compensate for drilling the new bearing support hole a little too low.
Once again..I could have had a much easier and cleaner job if I had filled in the big hole before painting.
Looks like you have that bad boy nailed Rich!
With help from you and Gary..thanks. I had thought all along the late model steering column was going to make my rack connections a lot easier and thankfully i was right.
I just got back from the hardware store to pick up some aluminum window screening. I'm thinking if I'm careful, I can shape the screen over the large opening, then cover it with fleece or fiberglass cloth and then fiberglass resin it. I may have to build in a rigid 'ring' of sheetmetal to keep the cover (and rubber sheet gasket) from cracking when attached with screws. If that works out...and it may not (I seem to get caught up in that Edison theory of finding out what doesn't work that Bill L. reminded us of)...I'll post some pics.
Rich
CAKE!
speaking of cake...I'm having to eat the aluminum screening I bought. They just don't make it like they use to in the "good ol' days. It use to be pretty substantial and fairly stiff..the 'new' stuff is made from very light gage wire and doesn't have much more body than fiberglass screening.
went back to the store and picked up the 1/4" hardware cloth that I should have gotten in the first place, and it's working great. I also remembered how well por-15 worked in place of fiberglass resin, so I'll be using that to impregnate the fleece material...pics to follow when I get 'er done.
Rich
This is going to work out well I think. I'm out of por-patch ( the thickened version of por-15) to make the cover smooth and a bit more rigid. Last night I soaked the fleece material with all of a 4 oz. can of por-15. My supplier has ordered me a tube of the Por-patch, so I'll have to wait til Tuesday to start finishing it up. In the meantime I'll get the bearing support cleaned up and painted and mounted, and I'm going to go look for a small rubber boot for it today, and spray a few coats of rubber on the inside to help it seal.
Some of the foams work well for air seals. Just use the kind that is not a sponge.
That would be a closed cell foam.....
This is probably boring stuff...but not much other posting going on lately.
I sprayed the inside of the cover with that "flex-seal" stuff you see on T.V. ads...actually works pretty good. I also put a strip of 3m rubber electrical splicing tape around the firewall flange. This 'tape' is non-adhesive so I glued it on with 3m rubber contact adhesive.
I found a boot that worked very well. It came off the front clip of a Pontiac mini-van steering/control arm thingy. LOL..I lucked out twice there. I saw one on a GM car that was still assembled, and thought that would work well, but sure wasn't going to disassemble the front end to get to it. Next row of cars had a van that someone had dropped the clip out to pull the engine, and had even pulled off the tie-rod end. I just cut off what I needed of the boot with a utility knife and slid it off. I also found several other boot, but this one worked the best. The counter man gave them to me as a freebie.
I had to turn the boot inwards because of the location of the single joint, but that'll be ok...looks neat.
Now I'm just waiting on the por-patch so I can finish it up and button everything down
Finished finally. Was going to finish it smooth and paint it red..decided to put a little texture in the por patch as it was setting up and leave it black.
Rich, That looks great, take it off and send it to me, and .I will let you know how good it looks on my Ranchero!!!!!!!! Tom
The st fabrications website won't come up...so..I can't find my instuctions that came with the unit. I need to know the fitting sizes for the fluid lines. Tom? anybody else?
Rich, for what is worth, I installed a rack that looks like yours, but had trouble with binding so I ended up getting rid of the double U-Joint and the center support. I now have single U-Jonts at both ends and the angles are well within the maximun for these joints and no binding.
Thanks for the info. The obvious problem building a car from the ground up, like you and I, time lag between project completion and being able to actually check it out. I know I'm gonna have a list after it actually gets fired up. I just hope it only covers one side of a page.
Gasman, where did you get your tie rod adjustment sleeves? I orderd a set from speedway just like yours but they were 5/8". I needed 11/16 and they do not sell that size. I didn't measure properly before I ordered. If you can share the supplier I would appreciate it.
Mine came from Speedway. Sleeves and hiems joints (inner tie rod) are not typically available in 11/16" thread. I changed my outer tie rod ends to Moog number ES351 which have the same spindle attachment as '57 out tie rod ends and 5/8" threads. By using ES351 end, all components can have common parts with 5/8" thread.