Well, the 2015 Car Show season here in Southern California started out with a bang and 85 degree plus weather on Valentine Day and I took my 57 to Indian Wells out near Palm Springs where Obama was playing golf. The show was great with about 1,000 very nice cars. I think there were only maybe two 57's other than a bunch of 57 T-Birds at the show.
On the way home I severely bruised my beautiful Custom 300 by running into the back end of a Nissan 370 Z (the little sporty car was just able to stop better than the 57 even though it has 4 wheel disc brakes) and then being sandwiched by a 67 or 68 Chevelle (whose brakes obviously weren't as good as mine). Everyone walked away from the accident and I was the only one with any damage (bloody nose, split lip & a couple of bruises) Pete Santini's shop is going to get the repair job and the car should be as good as it was before on Saturday. Actually, it will probably be better because I'm definitely going to have more aggressive disc brakes even if I have to go to a 17" or 18" rim to use the larger 6 piston brake calipers and maybe some kind of an electric rack & pinion power steering setup. My 57 was always intended to be a driver and not a garage queen. Here in Southern Calif traveling the freeways, there is always the possibility of a fender bender no matter how carefully you drive. I guess that is one of the prices we pay for living in our good weather, with our severe droughts and an occasional earthquake.
I'll keep you all informed of the progress on the repairs. I've already been in touch with Steve Pierce out in Twentynine Palms and he assures me he's got a usable front clip and lots of other parts & pieces that will be needed. Santini is coming over later today to look at the car and make me a list of replacement parts required. The good Lord was indeed watching over all involved in this, as only the cars took a beating and they can all be repaired.
Bob
57 AGIN
Glad no-one was seriously hurt, metal can be straightened but bones take longer to heal.
Sorry to see your car damaged Bob.
Yikes!! Sorry to see that. I try to leave plenty of stopping distance from the car ahead, but as soon as you leave a good gap someone fills it :angry5:
Damn the luck.
Wow , that is a sore view...nobody was severely injured, that is a good thing ( I have had major spine injuries myself caused by careless driver). still it hurts a lot to see a 57 like this.... :-(
hope it will be back in all of its glory very soon !
Painful indeed, lucky for sure!
Bob,
I hate to see you broke your car. I was in Los Angles once on a freeway there. Notice I said once. Good luck.
Ouch. Body shop jail is better than hospital time though.
Nice rig ya got there Bob,or will be again soon.Sorry for your misfortune and good luck getting her straight. Al
bob
It's painful to see that. I'm happy to hear that you did not get badly hurt. Jay
that sucks, good your ok......
Zap- :unitedstates:
Wow Bob,Glad your OK and that is all that matters.Aside from body damage,was your driveline all ok?
Make sure your all good and see a doctor.My father had a late model Mustang and was clipped.He did not realize he was hurt for a few days,Shock had set in.
Only thing to say is....That sucks, but glad no one was hurt!
Everyone:
Pete Santini came over last night and did a quick & dirty appraisal of the damage. I'll probably need a new front clip, all of the front grill & radiator core support, a headlight bucket on passenger side, right front side trim and likely a number of "oh by the ways." His quick inspection of the frame showed it is likely undamaged. Interestingly, the front bumper supports were not damaged and are still attached solidly to the frame, but the bumper itself needs replacing. The passenger door may still be OK, it doesn't open, as the front fender is slightly overlapping and up against it. The driver door opens and generally seems OK some of the clearances are a bit off. None of the glass was damaged and neither is any of the trim pieces back of the front fenders. The deck lid may be OK although it was shoved forward a bit. The major rear end damage is to the driver side tail light and the vertical sheet metal the gas filler goes through & license plate attaches to. As for the drive train, it is probably OK. I want to get the car up in the air to check out all of the cross members, the motor mounts look OK. The radiator & electric fans are toast, but we can't really tell about any of the supercharger pulleys & support hardware as the hood won't open & radiator is pretty much in the way. The car rolls easily, the brakes & emergency brake work, transmission shifts easily. But since the battery connection to ground on the frame came off the lug bolted to the frame on impact there is no power to anything. Before that was discovered I was wondering why none of the lights came on when the door was open, the answer is obvious now. Rick came over and shot some really great photos of the damaged 57. I've arranged them into some kind of order starting with the Nissan 370 Z I ran into and the Chevelle that ran into me then generally around the car starting up front and ending at the rear.
Bob
57 AGIN
Now moving to the damaged radiator looking from the driver side then on to the battery ground connection.
Moving on toward the rear of the engine compartment and on to the exterior of the car on the passenger side (the door that won't open) and ending at the steering wheel which I must have banged pretty hard. The horn ring broke and at the hub of the wheel all 3 connections have cracked the paint & probably the plastic beneath. My wife has always said I'm hard nosed. lol
Moving now to the rear end and starting with the left rear tail light, the left rear bumper being pushed into the quarter panel and ending up near the license plate. I'm sure we will find more to work on, but this is a general look at the damage. Nothing that can't be fixed and in some cases made better (brakes for sure).
Bob
57 AGAIN
A lot of owwies there, Bob!
The guys on the Hamb had a thread going earlier this week about the hazards of driving our beloved street rods on the roads anymore. Even with the upgrades you have with steering and brakes the sad truth is the performance of the new cars with all of their high tech systems have made our cars, even with the upgrades, much more dangerous to drive than 15 years ago. An 18 year old with a 10 year old beater is probably driving a vehicle that can outmanouver or outstop pretty much all of our cars. Even speed wise our modified, hopped up cars can be beaten by 10% of the new cars coming out of detroit. Your accident looks to be a perfect example of that discusion. But that isn't going to stop any of us is it? We just do what we can to improve the odds.
hats off to Bob for taking all of that and staying calm. looks as if the 57 should get an at least up to the beltline repaint to match all colors. all the small bruises will have to be repaired anyways, I am sure the b pillar and the striker plates area will need repair too.
Our cars were built very light. when I look at my wagon with all interior panels off, it is merely 1 thin piece of sheetmetal, without any reinforcement making the quarter panels. also the front fenders are just one layer of tin.
Rich, your thoughts are 100% truth. Driving ONLY vintage cars for more than 20 yrs myself, I feel the same, we have been outruled by the modern cars AND drivers (most younger drivers have never driven a vintage car so they don't know what it is like at all. that's why they squeeze into any safety gap that we might want to have to the car up front). I just quit driving my small vintage Volkswagen in daily use last season because of exactly that reasons.
Bob, I see you did have safety belts in the car. are they 2 point or 3 point shoulder harness ? I am thinking about putting belts in my 57 wagon, but I am not sure about running 3 belts without head rests. would appreciate your info. glad to hear that your nose was harder than the chrome... :001:
RICH MUISE & djfordmanjack:
Rich you unfortunately are quite right, my daily Driver a 2008 Shelby GT is a good example of that. But, I didn't spend all my pre-retirement buck on a car that all it would do is look nice. I'm going to drive it, even in this insane Southern California traffic. Before I started the original upgrades the car was literally an accident waiting to happen. Drum brakes, bias ply tires, and so on. I'm going to work on making it safer, but it won't ever be able to have all the modern technology that goes into the modern vehicle. I know this it will be fun and I just hope there won't be a next time.
As far as the seat belts, the current ones are just a standard lap belt setup, front and rear. That is the same setup I had when I had my first 57 as a teenager, but then I just did it because I thought they looked cool. I've been looking at getting a set of Simpson belts that include a shoulder harness. I sure wish I'd have had something like that on last Saturday. As for whip lash, it was odd I guess that I didn't wind up with one, I hit the Z pretty darn hard. But no, my only issues were the bloody nose/split lip and the bruise on my right leg just below the knee. Two days after the accident I bowled in my Monday night league and averaged 184, which is about 11 pins below my normal average. The only thing I couldn't do was go surfing on Monday. I just couldn't bear banging my knee on the board before getting to my feet, so I just had breakfast at the beach with my wife, kids & grandkids. Thanks to our crazy California weather.
Bob
57 AGIN
Yes you are absolutely right, that our cars should be driven. although we have to update somewhat in some areas, brakes, safety belts, tires... I love bias plies but I bought a set of radial whitewalls and wider 6 and 7" rims for safety... FYI I bought shoulder harness belts (fully automatic retractable) for my vintage 1966 Mercedes daily driver from WESCO performance. they have a lot of different styles and especially colors to make them fit to vintage cars. even come with the old chromed aviation style buckles. you should check them out. in th pic you can see how the tan color nicely matches my interior and I can live with the winders on top of the rear shelve, for my family's and all other passengers safety's sake.
Bob,
Boy, to me it's a lot of damage and you're lucky to not be hurt worse. I'm a big fat guy and that steering wheel would have been implanted in my spine. I do think the safety level of a vehicle should be directly proportional to where you live though. The insurance companies think so too. I've driven in California and I've flown a light plane over Orange Co. Once was all I wanted and I was a lot younger then.
People around here think I'm nuts for needing a perfectly functioning choke on a carburetor. I just tell them I'm too poor to buy something and not use it full time. Besides, my kids aren't in to "old" cars so why do I want to preserve it for someone I don't even know when I'm dead. Sort of like putting plastic seat covers on a new interior so the resale value will be higher.
Keep us informed about you're progress on fixing the car and the experience you have with your insurance company. God knows the people that actually drive these things could benefit from your experiences.
If you're ever close to Warsaw, IN you've got a bed and food here. Good luck.
Jim
I like your attitude on old cars, Jim...you're right, why should anyone preserve it for someone else? Enjoy it yourself, that's what it's for...
I'm with you Bob....didn't build it to sit and rub the paint off. My 36 has been hit twice in it's many years and it all "rubs out" with a little work and good insurance. Never been injured and just so happy to hear you came out healthy as well! Can replace the sheet metal, hard to fix the body.....goes without saying, keep us posted on yourself and the car.
I guess I'm one of the crazy ones too. My 57 has become my daily driver for the past two years after driving a 1960 F100 from 75-2013. Like most it has been a labor of love, blood, sweat, and $$$ and I didn't do it so it could be a driveway decoration. Traveling So Calif is a bit nerve racking and takes some of the enjoyment out of it. I blame a lot of this on the car manufactures who have designed cars to make them as idiot proof as possible. The result is people who would normally have trouble negotiating a parking lot able to drive at insane speeds on the streets and freeways :005: Things like women driving top heavy SUVs at 85mph on the freeway while on the phone is common today.
Bob
Sorry about your crash and really glad no-one was seriously hurt. On the lighter side the same thing kinda happened to Robert Mitchum one time when they tried to box Him in. His car was fixed and back on the "Road" again in 2 days. Hope yours will be fixed that quick.
Barry
Bob...got thinking about your comment on going to bigger brakes. If I recall you had a pretty good disc system on your car already. I'm wondering if your existing system was good enough to lock up the brakes, if going to the expense of bigger brakes is going to do any good at all. This goes back to our discusion of upgrades will never be up to the new car systems...and here obviously I'm talking about ABS brake systems. I mean, once you are to the point of being able to lock up the tires...
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-02-20 12:21
Bob...got thinking about your comment on going to bigger brakes. If I recall you had a pretty good disc system on your car already. I'm wondering if your existing system was good enough to lock up the brakes, if going to the expense of bigger brakes is going to do any good at all. This goes back to our discusion of upgrades will never be up to the new car systems...and here obviously I'm talking about ABS brake systems. I mean, once you are to the point of being able to lock up the tires...
Rolling friction is static friction which is greater than sliding friction. Bigger brakes allow the driver to apply greater braking force with less pedal pressure and in a more controlled fashion. This greatly aids the driver in staying in the rolling friction realm thus facilitating faster stopping. Bigger brakes will stop a car faster than smaller brakes every time given proper pedal application. ABS just makes it easier. Really.... :002:
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-02-20 12:21
Bob...got thinking about your comment on going to bigger brakes. If I recall you had a pretty good disc system on your car already. I'm wondering if your existing system was good enough to lock up the brakes, if going to the expense of bigger brakes is going to do any good at all. This goes back to our discusion of upgrades will never be up to the new car systems...and here obviously I'm talking about ABS brake systems. I mean, once you are to the point of being able to lock up the tires...
Rich, those are my sentiments exactly. Discounting ABS systems and making sure brake drums are balanced and brake cylinder pressure is applied evenly, how is a brake pad the size of a hair brush going to be better than a brake system with enough brake pad to make 10 hair brushes. But, they all tell me I'm wrong, less braking surface equals better braking when cars are concerned. They tell me it's documented. So, don't go there, you'll get eaten alive. lol
Its not just brake surface area, its clamping force. The disk brake setups, especially modern stuff, has much higher clamping force than a drum brake could ever manage. Plus the friction surface of the rotor is almost twice that of the drum when viewing both sides of the rotor vs the single inside surface of a drum. The brake pads, now those are another story, and your point is a very valid one. But it still goes back the much larger caliper and its ability to clamp down on the rotor vs the small wheel cylinder trying to push the pad against the inside of the drum. They both have their place. Good stuff to think about Jim.
Bob,
I run 11 inch discs with single pistons and they'll lock up if I want them too. How much more stopping power could I get with bigger brakes. Just asking.
Stopping the car is more then just the brakes. Suspension (springs rates, shocks and sway bars), front to rear balance, size and type of tire and the operator. Anti locks are a great thing and do a great job for the average driver on both wet and dry conditions. Having a good sense of the car (seat time) is one of the largest factors in getting the maximum performance from any given car. Learning the limits is the best way to maximize performance. These Fords come in around 3200 lbs. The stock brakes were marginal at best when new. Wagons and Rancheros had a slight advantage with larger brakes. Converting to disc/drum or disc/disc will most likely out perform the rest of the car for the average builder and if I might say, many of us behind the wheel.
It kinda goes along with the "I've got a 9" in my 32 Duece" . The car ain't nothing without a 9" but why? Never hook up hard enough to break an 8" on the street but gotta spend the bucks for that big ol 9"!
Sorry for the rant....just had to give my H.O.
Yep..I agree. I dont see me ever NEEDING more than 11 inch brakes. I will eventually also have 11 inch disks on rear tto, but for now will use the 11 inch drums. My Granada disks stop the car ok, would probably be better with power brakes, but not going there, too much clutter for my tastes.
Guys:
Given the size of my current system Kelsey-Hayes 2-piston and the recently installed 88 T-bird discs, I know I was stopping hard. But I did lock up the brakes before I hit the Z car. The CHP officer that was at the scene said that I would have had more stopping ability had the brakes not locked up. Again sliding friction vs rolling friction. I'm going to be studying all of this during reconstruction and decide what to do before getting on the road again. At the Ford Car Club Council meeting this morning I spoke to a guy involved in road racing Shelby Cobras and he told me much of the problem could be attributed to the type of brake pads on the car. OEM equipment really start to fade as the temperature of the pad rises and it certainly does in a panic stop situation. Going to a non-organic brake pad which actually increases in stopping power as the temperatures reach 300 degrees would be a considerable help. He said I might not need a 6-piston Brembo setup, but as I indicated I will be doing a lot of research.My tire foot print was approximately 8" wide on all 4 tires, with some B F Goodrich P225 X 60R X15 tires up front and bigger ones on the rear. I don't know where the 3200 lb figure comes from, I've weighed my 57 at the drag strip and at a recycling yard's commercial weigh scale and it comes up at 3700 lbs without me in it. It's no light weight. Any way lots to ponder and probably plenty ot time to do it.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob,
Good luck with your quest. I know there's no way my car can be set up for optimum braking. When the back end started chasing the front end on a panic stop once I just dialed it down till the front slid and the back didn't. I did that on gravel as instructed but, how in the world could that be correct. I'd bet the old drum set-up was better designed from Ford when it left the factory in 1957.
I looked up wheel speed sensors and aftermarket ABS systems but couldn't find anything. I'd say that if you contacted a chassis company that designed brake systems for racing cars you might be better off. I'd think it's expensive though. My 63 with drum brakes all the way around is probably the best braking car I ever had other than new ABS systems. The problem with it right now is I've got an 8 1/2" booster on it and it's too much power assist. I bought a 7 1/2" booster I'm installing this spring. But, when I'm done it's still a system designed by someone that don't know diddly when it comes to brake systems.
Ford Blue Blood is probably as close to being correct as anyone. I really think the factory has better engineers than me. And, without doubt they didn't just go to an aftermarket catalog and say " here's some bigger brakes, they should be better".
A couple of the things that are often overlooked in brake talk...a bigger diameter brake offers better braking in part because any braking force is applied is farther away from the center of rotation and simple mechanical advantage dictates more stopping torque for the same clamping force or the same stopping torque for less clamping force. This reduces pedal pressure and braking temperatures and allows better modulation or control. Another note, '57 drum brakes are partially self actuating, the leading shoe is actually pulled into the drum by the friction that it is causing. This reduces pedal force and a certain amount of control is sacrificed. Drums tend to "grab" and lock easily. Tire diameter also can play a roll in the mechanical advantage discussion as well.
We could write a book on this subject and never get it exactly right. The brake engineers at the factories spend huge amounts of time and $$$ trying to get it right. Sometimes too much braking is as bad as not enough, locking up the fronts and sliding in Bob's case is a good example. Another reason I prefer non power is I can get a better feel, I always find power brakes too sensitive, but thats just me. I made the mistake of changing from organic pads on my Mustang. The high performance pads are great if you are road racing and braking every ten seconds were they heat up but around town they suck. And how often do you brake hard enough to fade the organics? Not enough to justify them in my opinion.
Guys:
All good points and I will thoroughly study the situation our older cars present in terms of having to share the road with the more modern cars and their "improved " braking. I will be dealing with a couple of different people as well as a couple of manufacturers (don't know which ones yet). One of the people will be the guy who road races Cobras and works for a company that deals primarily with Dodges & Dodge Viper racing parts. Another will be one of my bowling partners, who is the crew chief for a group of Porsche Cup racing cars. My bowling partner was brought up with Fox body Mustangs before going over to the "dark side," so he's very familiar with Fords and their braking systems. I'll pass along the information I gather and maybe we will all gain some knowledge that can help our rare rides survive, in spite of where their owners live or the way we drive.
The attached photos show the brakes I currently have on my 57, the first set of 4 covers the front brakes, master cylinder and power assist.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
This second set of photos shows the recently installed rear discs. They are replacements from the 1988 T-Bird. I've also shown the sway bar setup from Southwest Thunderbirds as installed. It doesen't appear that the sway bar was damaged in the accident, but that remains to be seen.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
The insurance appraiser came by today to do his preliminary estimates. I've gotten in touch with Steve Pierce out in Twentynine Palms and he has some complete front clips to choose from. I'm putting Santini in touch with Pierce to get some figures ready for discussions between the body shop and the insurance company.
I believe the engine will be OK as I'm pretty sure it stopped immediately on impact. Attached is a photo of the battery ground strap connection to the frame. The lug is still attached to the frame, but the battery cable is no longer in it.
Things are starting to get moving, pretty soon the tear down will begin. Will keep you informed of the progress.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob, Very sorry for your accident, but appreciative of your time in sharing the details with us. It's important for us to learn from your real world experience.
In my case, I need to up grade my Ranch Wagon suspension to make it safe for vintage trailer towing. I will be very interested in your study and parts selection for an improved braking system.
John
Bob,
I went back and re-read all the posts, especially your first post. After looking at your setup I think most of us would really be happy with what you have to begin with. Trying to stop 4000 lbs. is a feat within itself, much less try to make it stop like a 3000 lb sport car that had years of suspension engineering going into it's breaking system counting ABS. I wonder if you can buy your way into a better handling car if you don't go ABS. And, I bet most of the fender benders that the insurance company's pay for isn't 57 Ford Custom's, I bet they're 3000 lb sport cars with well engineered braking systems that have ABS. Just say'in, I wish I had what you got. Jim
I agree 100%, and think of it this way also...if you had stopped faster, think how much harder that Chevelle would have slammed into you.
Jim & Rich:
I sure thought so at the time Rick & I were putting them on. But I'm still going to look into swept area, caliper clamping force and brake pad materials. Since putting the car on the road in 2004, with the basic Granada front & drum rear brakes, I've put a little over 20,000 miles on the car. So I've never really had to worry about putting new brake pads on, I upgraded to the Kelsey-Hayes brakes in early 2012 and then the new rear discs in January 2014.
Bob
57 AGIN
Man Bob...
My heart sunk when I saw this thread.
Best...
Rob
Hi All:
I've spent Thursday & Friday at Santini's working on my 57. On Thursday, I was just removing the easy pieces from up front and trying to get the front lighting harness (Painless my A_ _) unhooked and labeled (yeah Painless wires are labeled, but Rick and I enclosed all the wiring in some nice fiberglass sheathing to protect the wires and make them look cool) as to where they hooked up. Friday, Santini's main body specialist came over and between the two of us the car is almost completely ready to pull the engine & Trans for their evaluation elsewhere.
Also, on Friday my upholstery guy (Wahl's Upholstery) came to Santini's with two of his workers and pulled all the upholstery, except the carpet and headliner out and this is now stored at my house. It took them about an hour, less travel time.
Next week Rick and I will be off to Twentynine Palms to visit with Steve Pierce and his wealth of 57 parts. I'll have a "new" front clip (everything body wise), a passenger door, a deck lid, horn ring and anything else that Santini thinks they will be needing to return the car to show condition.
The insurance company (Infinity Select Insurance) has already sent me a check to begin the restoration process. So far they are very, very good to work with.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
Everything is now clear and ready for the 351W & TKO 600 to be removed from the car to facilitate body work on passenger side body and where the hood release pin was shoved into the firewall. Rick & I will be driving out to Twentynine Palms on Monday to shop for parts. Fun, fun, fun.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob, in case you have trouble finding one, I have a good driver quality grille. For a daily driver it could be cleaned up pretty well, for your car it'll need replating.
Rich:
Many thanks. I'm not sure what I'll find on Monday when I go out to see Steve Pierce. I'll be sure to let you know and I do appreciate the offer. We are pulling the engine and transmission today, to give working room for the firewall repairs and just to have them checked out before the car goes back together.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
We're back from Twentynine Palms with plenty of parts for 57 AGIN. All have surface rust and some will need considerable massage, but according to Pete and his metal rehab specialist all are usable. I was able to get a "new" front clip, deck lid, right side door, all needed trim pieces a really nice grill and a 58 ford hood & chrome hood scoop opening. There was only one part I wasn't able to find, a replacement horn ring. I broke my nose & split my lip on my original one and it comes from a non-power steering car. Steve didn't have any of these left in his substantial inventory (we checked through about 15 horn rings and all were out of power steering cars). Attached are a few photos from our excursion.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
Here are a few more photos from yesterday's parts scrounging trip to Twentynine Palms.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
Here are a couple of photos taken today at Santini's. Kind of reminds me of a real "back in the day" body shop.
Bob
57 AGIN
What kind of car is that red one? Not sure I've ever seen one before. :003:
rmk57:
I'm surprised, side by side 57's one is obviously a Ford, the other is a "Brand X" BelAir. My poor 57 is in a shop surrounded by numerous Brand X cars being repaired. I can't tell if it's because there are more of the Brand X's around to get dinged or if it is because they are more prone to getting dinged. Interesting question to ponder, isn't it?
Bob
57 AGIN
You certainly wouldn't have to hunt down parts out in the desert if you had a tri-5 chevy. You could build the whole car from a catalog.
PM sent about horn ring.
Bob, happy with you that you got all the parts needed. But it nearly brings tears to my eyes that they are parting such a dry wagon... :(
the red X-car is just awkward looking in direct comparison to the 57.
taking car of Business Bob!
I have always stated that those strange looking brand X things give off something that is very contagious when parked so close to them. Right now you have no choice so you may want to spray some disinfectant on yours when you get it back.
That's a lovely stash of nice old 57 sheet metal at Twentynine Palms.
Good score, Bob.! Glad you posted all the pics...always wonder what these places that are talked about look like. Nice to know there's so much there. I'm going to post a link to the pics in Steve's listing in the salvage yard links.
Guys:
Here is the latest update. Repairs have actually began. Who Hoo!!! Jeff worked on the cowl area and where the fender bolt attaches to the upper body. These areas were dented and ripped by the impact. Body work 101. We removed the passenger door and were able to see how badly the doors skin was ripped and separated from the door frame. I was surprised at the rust laying on the door frame under the door skin, obviously an area where previous sanding and painting couldn't get to.
Bob
57 AGIN
good to see the repair work already started. spring is coming ! ( or it has never been over in California anyways :D)
concerning the seam rust on the door panels, that is something I fear is in each and every of our cars since Ford didn't dip the body parts in rust protective primer to seal the inside. I have pulled the skins from the tailgates and also will remove the doorskins and fender braces. maybe now would be a good moment to start the repair with rust proofing the replacement door.
That is why I pressure wash the inside of the doors, hood and trunk lid best I can, let dry for a couple of days in the sun then pore POR 15 on the panel (1/2 pint, buy the six pack) and roll the door from edge to bottom to edge, same with the hood and trunck. Most all of the seams will ooze the stuff in less the 15 minutes per edge. I use foil tape to seal up drain holes and such. Yes there is a mess to clean up and most of the paint is wasted but if it helps the door, hood and lid last it is worth it. I have done this on every car I've built.
Bill, your the second person to mention this in a week.great solution.
I'll second that. lol..we were talking evaporust and por-15 on that thread earlier this week and I said I'd try not to get started on the por-15 advantages again. One of the things I was thinking about but didn't bring up was exactly what Bill said. It'll seep into seams on doors, roof, rear inner/outer quarter seams ect. Also a great adhesive and a sealant for pinholes @ welds. When I did my hood scoop, after the mechanical bond, the epoxy, the fiberglass cloth, etc, I also literally poured por-15 on the inside around the 3 sides.
Guys:
Thank you for the great preservation suggestions. Trust me, the new parts won't just be made pretty on the outside while neglecting the rest of the sheet metal. I'm pretty sure the body shop guys will roll their eyes with what I'll be doing preservation wise, but it's my car.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
While I was away for a couple of days the new front clip has been disassembled and work has been going on to straighten out the back end of the car. Since no rear panel (tail light to tail light) was available in Twentynine Palms they have been working on straightening the bent up rear panel. While at that they dismounted the old slightly bent deck lid and test fit the replacement deck lid. It fits better than the original, hopefully after media blast it will still be the choice. The original deck lid was slightly tweaked and was never quite perfect on the driver side by the tail light, the clearances were great but the deck lid height was slightly higher than the body and never did fit properly. A real surprise was the replacement fender eyebrows both came off and only one of the bolts wasn't salvageable. If we don't need to use these I'll make them available, as I remember a while back someone was looking for them. The same goes for the other pieces of the front clip that don't get used, they will all get media blasted and primed to prevent further rusting.
Bob
57 AG?IN
Guys:
Here are a couple of more photos of the replacement parts. At Steve's place he had a selection of doors for all different models of 57 Fords outside his work barn. There were 8 passenger doors to choose from that would fit the Custom series, Ranchero's and I believe station wagons. He had similar groupings of doors for the Fairlanes, four door models, etc. As you can probably tell from the sand inside the door all of them are subject to natural media blasting, but because they get next to no rain or humidity in his high desert location the parts don't suffer much from the outdoor storage. The fender that has the lower rocker panel rust problem very likely got that started a long time before ending up with Steve.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob...That rear tailpan "from taillight to taillight" is being reproduced by EMS as of a few years ago.
I was going to say that.....
Quote from: 57AGIN on 2015-04-02 10:55
Guys:
Thank you for the great preservation suggestions. Trust me, the new parts won't just be made pretty on the outside while neglecting the rest of the sheet metal. I'm pretty sure the body shop guys will roll their eyes with what I'll be doing preservation wise, but it's my car.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob, I don't doubt the shop guys will be rolling their eyes, especially with the condition the old cars are out there. I bought a 66 Fairlane XL convertible from out there last year with absolutely no rust on it. It had been underneath a patio for over 25 years. I have all my cars undercoated in Indiana, new or old. But you guys should be able to peal the paint off a car, polish the metal and drive from what I've seen. lol
RICH MUISE, Ford Blue blood, etc:
Took my headers to a shop to have the areas that have over the years been bumping into the steering box and idler arm worked on. The shop used a bit of heat and bumped some nice clearance for the idler arm, but said the steering box area was to the point that he didn't want to try any additional clearancing. He said it was already bent in to the point where any additional clearancing would really affect the performance. So I'll just wrap that portion of the header with some good fiberglass heat shield wrap. The headers are now at Specialized Coatings being ceramic coated again, as well as having the inside coated with an additional heat reduction coating. The Paxton-Novi blower has been shipped up to Paxton for a check out and replacement crank shaft & blower pulleys, a belt tensioner and blower belt.
Today Santini used his EMS Catalog to order a new tail pan and a lower right fender patch panel. That is all that is currently holding up progress on getting 57 AGIN back on the road. Of course that's in addition to re-chroming the replacement bumpers, grill & etc. This project is going much faster than the original body and painting by Santini four years ago. I'm excited and grateful.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
Time to update you on what has been taking place since my last post. The parts that were taken to media blasting have been returned and other than the very obvious rust damage on the right side fender's lower rear rocker panel everything came back better than Santini expected.
The headers came back from Specialized Coatings in a polished ceramic aluminum finish, looking very much like they had been chromed. The ceramic coating process was interesting to watch and is quite involved. The result is amazing and I won't have to keep polishing them in the hard to reach spaces and they won't turn blue from heat like chrome does. (photos attached.
The supercharger came back yesterday from Paxton-Vortec after a minor rebuild (replacing the bearings inside), apparently the bearings don't like being struck by the radiator filler tube. It looks like Santini's body repairman (Jeff Beck) will be able to get back to work on my 57 tomorrow, so there will be lots of photos in the near future.
Bob
57 AGIN
Latest update:
Santini finally had enough time to closely check out the deck lid and hood now that they are back from media blasting (walnut shells). He asked me if I can work a deal with Steve Pierce to exchange the two pieces, after he has sprayed them with primer. It seems like the deck lid, although it fits in the car better than the original has a good deal of basic body work to be done to it to get it to the standards he uses on show cars he does. He said it would end up costing over $1,000 in labor to get it ready for painting. Though it would be good enough for a guy working on a driver only type car. A similar case for the 1957 hood. So I guess it is back up to Twentynine Palms, CA. Darn!!!
Bob
57 AGIN
I'm curious as to how your going to be able to tell if another one is going to be any better fit without having your car in 29 palms to check fit. Does he think a show quality fit can be found on salvage yard parts, or any car for that matter without the special ($1000) tweaking his shop is noted for. Also curious as to why he couldn't tell before you went thru the expense of the blasting and priming. I may be a little off base here, but I think I'd be a little annoyed with the bodyshop.
Rich:
I'm with you on the deck lid issue and I may not find a better deck lid. As for the hood, apparently the owner of the media blasting place had a long discussion with Santini before the blasting was done. Santini was only going to have him do the bracing on the underside of the hood, as he had previous bad experiences with media doing both sides of a hood. The media owner said not to worry he would have his technician just do a very light hit on the upper hood surface. When the job was done the hood was warped and according to Santini the media tech either hadn't listened to the media owner or the owner forgot to tell him. All in all a bad deal, but not too late to recover from.
Bob
57 AGIN
Plus, Rich, Santini is probably the best in the business. I could never afford him, but his work is second to none, multiple magazine cars to his his credit, multiple show winners as well. Short version, dude is good. The media guys should have known, you can't blast metal like that. The blasting creates heat, even with walnut shells, and it will warp. Only thing I blast is heavy stuff like wheels, spindles, stuff like that. Sorry to hear about the delays, Bob, but can guarantee it will be as perfect or better than before.
Agreed...and Bob's explaination cleared things up a bit..at least with the hood.
Guys:
Just got back from Twentynine Palms yesterday. I got a replacement hood for the one the media blaster warped (Santini says it will be dipped this time) and unfortunately had to pass on a replacement deck lid. Steve Pierce had one deck lid left that wasn't part of a complete car, but it had issues with the lower passenger side where the skin folds over and attaches to the main structure of the deck lid (see photos 1 & 2). So Jeff will wind up reworking the deck lid that the media blasting place messed up. I had a great time talking with Steve and also brought back a 58 Ford steering shaft for Rick, who is working on some kind of project for his 57. Meanwhile, the media blasting place owned up to the fact that they probably were responsible for rolling the lower lip and one or more of the deck lid dents. Today I took the replacement radiator core support and the ruined radiator over to Mattson's Radiator in Stanton, CA who built the one that is now ruined. Jack Mattson is going to use them to design a new even more efficient radiator that can be used on 57 Fords. The only negative is the the fill tube will have to be relocated to the passenger side which will cause some problems with having a working radiator overflow system due to battery box interference. And the "beat" goes on and on and on....
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob,
Bless your heart, it looks like you totaled the 57 with all the things you're doing to it. I've got 25K of agreed insurance on my 57 and Hagerty would have thrown that at me and took my car before they'd pay for all you're doing to yours. I've gave a lot of thought to this drag racing my car this year and I've about talked myself out of it. I'd hate to tear up my car with it running so good now. It would absolutely devastate me to go through what you're doing now. I watch these videos of drivers like mine being torn up on the track and it puts shivers up my spine. Hang in there, hopefully your 57 will be fixed one day. Jim
Jim:
The best thing I've done in insuring my 57 is to do the agreed value to the extent that I could replicate my car if the worst thing were to happen. Of course taking a car to the drag strip and running it, does tend to void all insurance plans I'm aware of. I've said it many times, my current 57 is all those things I would have wanted to do to my original 57, but couldn't afford it when I was young. The car has sentimental value to me as my wife and I dated in my original 57 over 50 years ago. The money I've invested in it will never be recouped, I couldn't sell it for what's gone into it in its various configurations since I bought it in 1998. But at least for as long as I can drive it, I'll insure it for an agreed cash value of $100,000. So the insurance company will definitely think twice before declaring it a total loss. For about $500 per year I believe it is money well spent. But, I'd sure like to get in onto a quarter mile just once to see what it will do, but most likely never will.
Bob
57 AGIN
Back to Santini's again and found Jeff Beck working on my passenger side front fender. Oddly enough he had it strapped to a Chevy to hold it steady while getting the metal ready for primer coating. I joked with him saying not even my 57 Ford fender can make that Chevy into a classic. I noticed that my replacement passenger fender had some mirror mounting holes just above and to the rear of the antennae hole, but those mirrors were long gone and thinly patched before I got the fender from Steve. Oh well, it was good just to see some progress being made on my car. I believe things will start happening fairly quickly now, as the necessary pieces have been received from EMS for repairing the rear of the car.
I am a bit concerned about where the chrome and stainless will be done, as this time the two places that did that work a couple of years ago for me have both closed due to environmental/city pressures. There are still good places around, but it remains to be seen whether their work will be as good as I had in the past.
Bob
57 AGIN
Everyone: There is finally some more work being done on the replacement parts obtained from Steve Pierce. The latest work in progress is on the front splash pan under where the grill goes. It is interesting to see Jeff work with the hammer & dolly to straighten metal that has been subject to harsh treatment in the past. His methods are "old school" and when he does use some thinly applied skim coats, he prefers to have a minimum of that material applied and then use successive coats of primer along with block sanding, which he says is less porous and protects the metal underneath for better long lasting results. Jeff tells me that once the basic straightening and body work is done and before any final finishing is done, he will install the radiator core support then hang the fenders, doors, hood, deck lid and rear end pieces to ensure fitment and clearances through out the car. So right now everything is proceeding slowly in getting the basic prep work out of the way.
One thing I've learned about Santini's shop is that he stands behind the work done there and really doesn't like to have to redo slipshod work. Besides my 57, his shop is currently working on a mid-60's Pontiac 2 + 2, a Chevelle and a couple of relatively minor insurance jobs along with replacing the entire side of a large pickup truck. There are also a number of other cars at the shop that are awaiting parts or insurance company approvals. So the body man,Jeff, is kept very busy moving between the various cars in different stages of repair. Pete does all the painting and he has another employee that does lots of buffing, sanding and cleaning. This is the frustrating part for me, as a non-mechanic/do it yourselfer to be stuck looking at slow progress on my project, while other projects come in and go out on a steady basis. My guess is that the car will be complete well after summer has come and gone and could even take as long as the original restoration.
Bob
57 AGIN
Well the 57 is still in the process of being repaired. From Late May until mid August it just sat while other insurance and minor repairs were being done by the shops small staff. But, earlier this week they got back to work on my 57. They are starting with repairing the damage to the rear of the car. The first photo shows the car up in the air waiting for the removal of the gas tank. The next photo is of the Tailpan that was removed, EMS provided a new Tailpan and stiffener. The EMS pieces were well done, but still required trimming and fitting to get it back to "factory" appearance. The next photo shows, the body and trunk floor areas that required considerable clean-up before the new Tailpan could be welded into place. The final photo shows Jeff in the process of cleaning of all the metal the new Tailpan will be welded to
Bob
57 AGIN
Moving on to the actual installation and finish of repairs to the rear end. The next photo shows the new deck lid gaps by the rear window to be perfect. The next photo shows the gap between the deck lid and the passenger side to be better than that of the original, the same holds true for the driver side. The final photo shows the new Tailpan installed with the seams welded flush. Also the tail light bezels are going to be molded into the body after being epoxied and bolted. Unfortunately, the pot metal can't be welded to the steel body, but the finished product will look better and probably outlast me by a long time. I'm starting to get excited again, now that the work has begun again. Next week Jeff is moving up to the front end, where the majority of damage was done.
Bob
57 AGIN
Excellent work, there's nothing that says "quality" more than good, equal panel gaps.
It (almost?) makes the wait bearable!! It's gotta be tough just seeing your baby sit there so long. Bob...same color scheme when the time comes?
James:
Yes, I really like the color and I think it sets the car off really nice. There is going to be a few minor modifications to what was there before, both on the exterior and interior. Although, those are still in the preliminary planning stage and will be an out of pocket expense. The insurance company has been very supportive and good to work with and I'll bear the costs of modifications.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here is the latest on my 57's rehab. I decided to have the tail light bezels molded into the rear quarter panel. After years of looking at Rick's 57 Custom 300 I decided that is the look I wanted for mine too. Jeff had just finished doing the left rear quarter panel & tail light bezel. Here is how it turned out.
Bob
57 AGIN
beautiful work and good to see it coming back together again.
It's amazing how much seam rust is trapped even in a dry and solid California car ( when the rear pan is removed).
Djfordmanjack:
Yes, surprised me too. But, whenever a little space is available to moisture on steel over a 50+ year period, rust will form. But, at least in the areas being worked on now, rust will be a thing of the past, at least in my life time. Lol
Bob
57 AGIN
Just got back from a trip to the East Coast for a wedding. Visited my 57 and found both the front fenders rehung to check gaps and the passenger door had also been rehung. Apparently, the driver side front fender that was slightly bent in the accident is easier and less costly to repair than completely rehabilitating the replacement front fender. Not so for the passenger side, this one is still being worked on in several areas, but was rehung to check out the gaps. Finally, the passenger door that had the skin separated from the body of the door was used instead trying to rehabilitate the replacement door. Jeff determined that less hours would be required to reattach some new skin to the body of the door, than to completely rehabilitate the replacement door. So I'll be able to return several pieces to Steve Pierce's 29 Palms parts yard. So, attached are photos of the rehung fenders, the original photo of the skinned back passenger door and the still being repaired original passenger door.
Bob
57 AGIN
Back to Santini's again today. Jeff Beck was working on smoothing out the repairs he had done to the passenger side door and generally getting the passenger side ready for some primer in preparation for block sanding. I was sent out to find a cage bolt to use in holding the top of the fender to the body near the cowl where all the windshield wipers are hidden. Seems that the cage bolt on the passenger side fender got ripped out of the body during the accident. I couldn't find one in the Dennis Carpenter catalog, so I went down to a fastener warehouse nearby and got an assortment of cage nuts/bolts and j-nuts/bolts. If these don't work, I'll get in touch with Steve Pierce again. The re skinning of the passenger door looks like it came out of the factory back in 1957 (Jeff sure does nice work).
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob, It's looking great. Great to watch a skilled craftsman, thanks for allowing us to watch the progress. I know it takes a long time, but it will be worth the wait.
As a side bar, Santini has painted many of the most famous VW drag cars ever built. The paint detail is incredible, they look like show cars, not race cars. He's done several race cars over the years, for my VW engine builder Shawn Geers.
Well the work continues on my 57. The rear end is just about done, all that remains is the rear bumper modifications. The fenders are temporarily hung to sort out the gaps and as soon at a good 57 hood is ready final fitment will be undertaken. The driver side front fender was straightened, it was bowed slightly up in the middle due to the impact. This required less shop time than rehabilitating one of the replacement fenders from the replacement front clip I got from Steve Pierce in 29 Palms. The passenger side fender is a replacement fender and the side trim will have to be mounted temporarily to see which of the trim holes will need to be filled in. A small bit of customizing is about to be done to the front where the headlight eyebrows will be molded in to remove those seams, like we had done in the rear. The final result is that all the visible seams, except for the front piece with the F O R D letters will have been filled or molded in, can't do that one as it needs to be able to be removed to allow easier access for installing/removing the engine. Finally, the fender wells for both sides have been marked up to fill in all the unneeded holes and remove a number of hose clips.
Looking good, Bob. You probably will want them to also fill in the seam line on each end of the spash pan. That's an easy one as the seam is just the result of the splash pan actually being 3 pieces spot welded together.
Bob, you've got a nice car. I'm not going to talk about your car though. You Sir, have more patience than anyone I've ever known, especially given the fact that driving a car is more enjoyable than working on one. Jim
I agree, Jim, but having a Shelby to drive while he's waiting has got to ease the pain a bunch!!
I didn't know that, thanks. Jim
Thanks Guys:
I really miss taking the 57 to our local and some distance car shows. It is a fun car to drive and I can hardly wait until it is in my garage and ready to show again. Took Rick over to Santini's to show him the progress on the 57 and then we went over to visit the shop where my engine is awaiting its turn for reinstalation. Rick says that I'll have a couple of weeks of work just cleaning the dirt & grime off the engine from just sitting there, but I think I'll actually enjoy that.
This coming Saturday I will be able to see some of my other car friends, as the Annual Shelbys on the Pier Show at and on the Santa Monica Pier is taking place. My Shelby is just another car lost among all the classic GT 350's, Cobra's, Super Snakes and King of the Road's. But, is sure good to see all that eye candy.
Bob
57 AGIN
Rich:
You said you haven't seen any updates on what's happening with my 57 in quite a while. Unfortunately neither have I. The car was nearly ready for a few months ago. But as they looked closer on the driver side rear quarter panel Jeff saw some waviness and repaired that. A couple of weeks later they started to finalize the deck lid and hood and we came up with a fitment problem with the hood. The deck lid fits better than my original one, the gaps are all equal and it sets in the rear end just fine. However, when Jeff was setting up the gaps on the front fenders to the body, and the rear of the hood there is about 1/2 to 3/4 inch set back in the front of the hood where it would be in relation to the nose piece (the one with the F O R D letters that bolts to the fenders on either side). We've measured the hood length on several of my hoods including the damaged 57 hood, the 58 hood and several of Rick's hoods. they all measure the same. But, the gap that is there now is much greater than it was before the accident. Rick's hood has about a 3/8 inch set back too and this was more than my original one was, too. The work on other cars in the shop continues on, but mine is still just sitting. Very frustrating as it seemed to be getting real close.
On the other hand, Rick helped me yesterday to get the engine home from the shop that checked it out following the accident (I got busy and cleaned out some space in my garage so I could work on cleaning it up. The blower and new pulleys have been installed and when clean it will be ready for reinstalling. After draining the oil and replacing the filter and broken dip stick it should be ready to start. Meanwhile, back at Santini's, the front & rear bumpers are going to be modified slightly, removing the bumper guards and filling in the bumper bolt holes and installing bumper mounting studs. The rear bumper is being notched where the exhaust pipes exit (a little more than a 1/2 moon notch). Then all will be sent out for re-chroming and the stainless trim will all be re-polished.
I go by the shop every day to see what is going on and actually got an apology from Santini, as he had said I'd have the car by Christmas. The main frustration I have is that Santini has 4 cars sitting in his shop that have been completed and whose owners won't pick them up because they are on a cruise or out of state and wont be back until the new year, generally one excuse or another, while I've had all the parts and cash ready for months. Or because of his reputation he will get a very high end car in for a minor repair that will take precedence over everything else. It is frustrating, but I do know one thing, when it is done it will be as good as it was before or better and it will have been worth waiting for.
Bob
57 AGIN
I'm not sure what is more depressing...living in a neighborhood (mine)where 1/2 the cars are 20 year old broken down Lincoln towncars riding around on donuts or living in a neighborhood(SoCal) with all the 1/4 mil super cars zipping around.
Gotta be tough on you, Bob....walking the line between when the heck am I gonna get my car back, and knowing when you do get it back it'll be much better than if done elsewhere.
The infamous nose piece to hood gap....A few of us here have had that frustrating experience this past year. Get it close, then slightly tweek something seemingly unrelated, and bamb...back to square one. Mine is not correct still...waiting for a later date when I'll have more patience.
I just got my hood back on my car and I spent an awful lot of time trying to get those gaps right. I lowered both hood hinges by filing slots, added shims here and there and I even bent the hood to recurve the cowl edge by kneeling on it upside down! My car has been in an accident at some point in its life and there was no way to straighten out everything within the range of factory adjustments. It is pretty close now.
RICH MUISE & lalessi1:
Thanks for the encouragement, I'm in the process of getting a replacement bolt, nut pucks & retainer for the core support and hope that maybe that will help a bit. I'm pretty confident that Jeff & Pete will figure something out to get the fitment a bit closer. We'll see. I know Jeff wanted to get the gaps as close as possible before blowing the front end apart for painting, but I think he's resigned to the fact that he's going to have to do it after the paint is on the car.
Bob
57 AGIN
Apparently Santini is working toward giving me a somewhat belated Christmas present. They are doing some more work on my 57. The front fenders are off, one of them is being given a final touch up before painting. The core support and fender wells are off and being powder coated before painting. Looks like things are progressing again.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here is the latest on my 57. I've had the engine home since December 19 and I too am moving slowly. The engine is just getting a cleaning and re-polishing of polished aluminum parts that I don't have to dismantle to get at. So far the blower box and all of its fittings have been removed along with the carburetor and bagged, so I can get at the Air-Gap intake manifold. It hasn't been really cleaned since being installed back in 2002 and it is amazing how dull it had gotten. The work is slow, as there are lots of spaces that a buffing pad and drill motor can't reach, same holds true for a Dremel tool with polishing attachments. So lots of micro-fiber towels & metal polish with good old elbow grease.
Santini's people are back on working on my 57. Seems like about a month goes by between spurts of work. The core support and fender wells are back from powder coating and the engine compartment side of the fender wells have been smoothed and prepared for the 2-tone paint job. The hood, deck lid, doors and fenders are finally ready for primer and the body is in the process of being masked off for primer. Maybe by next week the primer and final blocking may be well under way. I'm really hopeful anyway.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here are some photos of the other pieces mentioned. :deadhorse:
Looks Great!...You must be Happy with all that great work.
Well Guys it's time to give another update. Lots has been going on, but the car is still not in the paint booth. But, I think it will start before the 1 year anniversary of the 57's Valentines Day Massacre (accident). In mid-January the 57 was being taped up for some final primer spray and the fender wells and bumper brackets were back from being powder coated. The passenger side still needed some final sanding prep around the old battery box area.
About a week later, the bumpers were back from being straightened and de-chromed. Santini delivered them over to Wheeler's Speed Shop to have the bumper bolts removed and converted into behind the bumper studs for mounting to the bumper brackets and to have some half moon cuts done on the rear bumper for the exhaust tips. Wheeler?s shop was busy doing some really nice custom work on the frame for a 1940?s Woody. I took a couple of shots of the Art Morrison chassis and the 427 small block Ford going into the woody. Like I said they do really nice custom work. At one point I was thinking about having Wheelers graft a 56 Crown Vic top and B pillar onto my 57 and having the only 57 Crown Vic around, but the cost estimate was prohibitive. Oh well, I'll just have to settle for a running 57 Custom 300 which isn't all that bad.
Bob
57 AGIN
Finally, this week has seen the windows all removed for painting, the door hardware and doors have all been removed and I am told the car, fenders, hood and deck lid are ready for the paint booth. So I'm not 100% positive, but pretty sure the paint booth is not far off. If it goes into the booth this Friday I won't be around, as Rick and I will be at the WinterNationals. But, I'll be back at Santini's on Monday with my trusty camera. I'm sure he will be glad to see me and my camera gone eventually. I'll still have plenty of work left to do before the car is back on the road and/or at car shows. Stay tuned for more episodes.
Bob
57 AGIN
As you said, they're probably anxious to get it on out as well. Any changes from the paint scheme?
Thanks for the updates.
Rich:
At this time I'm not planning any changes in the paint scheme. Pete may come up with something slightly different for the Custom 300 side trim paint area, but the basic colors will be House of Color Magic and Mystic Blue pearlescent mix over a Honda Pewter metallic.
Bob
57 AGIN
Back again:
The bumpers are being worked on to remove the bolts & bumper guards. These photos show some of the processes Wheeler's goes through to do a good job of replacing bumper bolts with studs that won't warp the bumper when tightened onto the bumper brackets. I photographed the layout table with the rear bumper attached to show the care taken in making sure the bumper will be absolutely level when all the studs are attached and the bumper is to be mounted onto the car after chroming. After each hole is filled in the outside of the bumper is hand filed smooth to ensure there are no dimples where the former bolt hole was. Many of the cars they have done and are in their shop for upgrades have this done to the bumpers and I'm told that as long a the chrome shop uses the proper techniques and materials in their chroming process the bumpers come out absolutely flawless. After filling in the bumper bolt holes, they use a 1/4" metal plate to which a bolt is welded to with the head removed which is then welded on the corners only (to prevent the welding of the plate onto the bumper from drawing the metal of the bumper into the welded plate and forming a crease in the to be chromed outside of the bumper. This plate mounted stud spreads the pressure of the tightening of the stud to the bumper brackets from warping the nicely chromed bumper. I never thought about that when installing the bumper using bumper bolts after the first time the car was painted and reassembled. Finally, the last photo taken on Friday March 4, 2016, shows my doors, hood and deck lid finally going into the paint booth for applying the first color coats. Whoopee, at last.
Bob
57 AGIN
Sure looks like your bumpers are getting the royal treatment...I'm sure it's a lot more care than most smoothies would get.
Nice it's finally getting paint.
Yeah Rich:
It's been a long time coming. I'll still be visiting it every day on weekdays, as his shop is closed on weekends.
Bob
57 AGIN
Things keep moving on as the refurbishment continues. I took a friend over to Wheeler's to show him how the bumpers are being modified. When we got there we found that the front bumper was completed and ready to be taken to the chrome shop. The rear bumper was being worked on by a guy using a metal file by hand on removing all traces of filling in the former bolt holes on the bumper. Apparently to do it right a number of hours of this are required for each bumper. Next comes cutting the exhaust tip half moons having a small raised bead surrounding the cut out portion of the bumper.
We then went on to deliver to Santini's the 58 Ford hood we had just picked up from being chemically stripped. Santini had experienced poor results in having several 57 hoods bead blasted and warping perfectly good hoods. We didn't want to take a chance with the 58 hood, as they seem to be more scarce. I'm looking forward to seeing how the car looks with a 58 hood. I'll have a 57 and a 58 hood when all is done and maybe with some different painting options done on each. We'll see sometime soon, I hope.
Bob
57 AGIN
When I went back to Santini's today, I found one of his guys working on my 58 hood. First using the DA sander and then a hammer & dolly. This worker has been working on a Corvette for the past week (I think every panel on the Vette had some kind of crack in the fiberglass. Apparently this worker is multi-talented, modern stuff & old tech, too. At last thing are moving again.
Bob
57 AGIN
Diggin' the 58 hood!
robhaerr:
Me, too. Several of my 57 friends have had them on their 57's. I'm not sure how it will look on my car with the color scheme I'm using, which is why two hoods being worked on. I was over at Santini's again today and it was being block sanded. Talking with Pete, he says the new guy in the shop has really good old school techniques. He said that most body guys he's seen in recent years would have just skim coated the hood and sanded it smooth. Instead, this guy started by rubbing his hand over the surface and got out his hammer & dolly and began shaping and stretching the metal to smooth out the bumps and valleys. Now he is block sanding the metal smoothing it further, then he will probably use a little skim coat and finish it off. Pete is impressed with his work, so am I.
Bob
57 AGIN
No, but man it pours!
I want that Buick in the last pic.
Rich:
I think that's a 57 Buick, I'm not good on identifying GM products. I believe that is in for a full restoration. A stock yellow 1966 Pontiac 2+2 is done & just waiting for the chrome & trim before it is finished. It turned out very nice, it isn't going to be a show car. A son who is stationed near by in the Army is having it done for his dad who lives in Arkansas. I'm sure his dad will be thrilled, given its poor condition when it was being worked on beside my 57.
Bob
57 AGIN
Rich:
According to Santini you wouldn't want that '57 Buick. I found out it is just in for a repair of the driver side rear quarter panel that got bent in some kind of accident. He said for a decent restoration on that Buick could run up to 6 figures, it needs major work underneath it all.
Still no more progress on my '57, everyday I go over to the shop the car just sits under a tarp and waits for my next visit. Obviously, my schedule of events and Pete's aren't the same and he's the one with the paint gun.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob Lee,
Every time I end up driving in bumper to bumper traffic over 45 mph, I think of you, then I back off and piss all the people off behind me.
Jim:
Yeah, I sure learned my lesson the hard way. Earlier today I was cautioned by a long time car collector/friend, not to drive my 57 to those long distance shows. But, as I told him some day I'd like to do a Power Tour or just a trip to the middle part of the country to visit fellow 57 owners. Whether I could do that driving my 57 or towing it behind our motor home. I hope my some day comes some day and I don't let too many some days go by to no longer be able to do it.
Mean while, today I visited Wheeler's to check out the progress on my bumpers. The front is ready for chrome and the rear is getting there. Brian (from Wheeler's) brought the rear bumper over to Santini's so he could take a good look at exhaust routing and whether the bumper can be tightened a little in its mounting to the rear of the car. Both Brian and Pete decided to slightly re-route the exhaust about 6" closer to the outside of the bumper. I agree with them, it should enhance the look I'm after quite a bit. So he's fabricated a couple of new bumper brackets to mount on the outside of the frame rails and a neat bracket that will be welded to the exhaust tip to ensure no rattling exhaust where it passes through the bumper. Here are a few photos of what I saw today.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here are the final 3 photos taken today at Wheeler's 3-15-2016.
Very impressive, Bob, I like that look alot.
Bob, that looks nice. I bought a new Ram Truck the first of 2013 and I've drove about 40,000 miles since then. The 2013 Ram truck just turned over 10,000 miles on the odometer. You can guess what the other 30,000 miles was put on.
Quote from: 57AGIN on 2016-03-16 03:29
... I was cautioned by a long time car collector/friend, not to drive my 57 to those long distance shows.
WHY!!!!!! Got 'em, drive 'em!!
Bob, I think about the Harley Davidson TV commercial that appeared several years ago. It showed an old geezer (like me lol) sitting in his rocking chair on the front porch as a "new" Harley rode by in front of his house. He say's something like, "I should have bought one back in the day, but the wife wanted a new couch". We have a limited time here, and will not always have the mobility to just do what we want for entertainment. Enjoy the journey, not just the destination. Pay the insurance premium, let the insurance company have the sleepless nights with worry about the risk, and drive 'em hard while you can.
I know your anxious about getting it back on the road, but you cannot rush an artist. There's not many places in the entire country that can, or will do body and fabrication work to the quality of Santini's, or Wheeler's. Fortunately they are local to both of us. Your not new to the hot rod scene. We all forget how many hours, weeks, years we invest into our projects to get them to our desired level of completion. When you go back and look at how much they have accomplished in "only one year", it's amazing. We are not talking about a "daily driver quality" rebuild.
You will be pleased with the results after that "first cruise".
John:
Thanks for the encouragement. Sometimes though it does feel like the car is in "Body Shop Jail." By the way, Other than robhearr, Rick Crawford, Kid Courier and Hiball3985 I wasn't aware of any other local 57 owners. Please give me a call (562) 716-9601 and maybe we can get together sometime.
Bob
57 AGIN
I too am in So Cal (Alhambra) but no longer own my 57 Ranchero. I can highly recommend a body shop in Montebello, Montebello Auto Center located on Whittier Blvd. The owner is Joe Ortega and they have done body and paint work for me on about 15-16 restorations over the past 20 years including my Ranchero. Not cheap but very high quality body work, fabrication, and paint (including color matching).
Quote from: 57AGIN on 2016-03-16 14:06
John:
Thanks for the encouragement. Sometimes though it does feel like the car is in "Body Shop Jail." By the way, Other than robhearr, Rick Crawford, Kid Courier and Hiball3985 I wasn't aware of any other local 57 owners. Please give me a call (562) 716-9601 and maybe we can get together sometime.
Bob
57 AGIN
Don't forget Chick with the black Fairlane, I haven't seen him in a few months. I have a friend with a finished wagon and a ranchero under construction but he doesn't have internet so he has never joined us here.
Also DgasMan and Ray in Huntington beach
hiball3985:
Thanks for that update. I just talked to Chick last night. He's bringing his 57 to Knott's this year and helping us out with parking the thundering herd (lots of Mustangs, lol). He recently suffered a great loss when his wife passed away unexpectedly. So he's feeling pretty down. Wish there was something that could be done to cheer him up, but that is something only time will heal. I'd surely like to get a group of us 57 owners together some time. Knott's would be nice, but I'm so darned busy with putting on the show and helping out with the Ford Drag Team displays, two of them this year. One is for the active drag & other Ford race cars, the other the wild "SOHC "Cammer" bunch that is actually being coordinated by Butch Englebrecht & Marc Bodrie. We hope Gas Ronda will be healthy enough to come to the show we've booked a room for him at the Knott's Hotel, also one for Butch Leal. Linda Vaughn, & Cloe Shelby and John Vermeersch Technical Advisor for Ford Motorsport Performance Equipment will also be among the celebrities attending the event.
How's that I hijacked my own thread. Badd Bob, badd Bob.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob
Thank you for the update on Chick, I had no idea his wife had passed. Many of the guys at our Thursday night cruise belong to the same club as him and I don't recall anyone mentioning it..
Hi All:
Great news, my 57 was pulled out of the garage on Friday and was being cleaned prior to putting it into the paint booth. Finally!!!!
Also the bumpers are going into the shop next week for the first application of copper. As of now we don't know how many copper applications will be required before the bumper is ready for the chroming process. I never knew that for a quality job done on bumpers, etc. could require a number of coats of copper, before starting to get chromed. Learn something new every day. LOL When I stopped at Wheeler's on Friday he showed me the exhaust tips with a 6" X 2.5" extension tacked to each of them. To facilitate mounting he is going to cut the extensions on the end and expand it sufficiently to accept my 2.5" rear exhaust tubing and then send the finished pair of exhaust tips and extensions out to be chromed prior to installing them onto the bumper when it is out of the chrome shop.
Bob
57 AGIN
That's good news, Bob
The copper layers are what they use to do the final smoothing, filling of minor stuff, etc. Being soft, it's much easier to work that perfect than trying to do the same on the base steel. Aside from that function, the copper also provides adhesion for the nickel. Unfortunatly it's also the copper that causes all the epa problems. Chrome shops that have been hit by the epa, and tried to tell their customers that the copper isn't necessary don't stay in business too long.
Rich:
Before I read about your accident I was preparing a little humorous posting about that 1957 Buick you liked in one of the photos I posted. That car is in at Santini's to have the driver side rear quarter panel repaired and some of it was so rusted that a better piece of metal was needed to replace the rusted portion, just in front of the rear tire. Well, Santini's shop does a lot of late model accident repairs for insurance companies, but the scrap metal available from both the imports and domestic cars just isn't up to the thickness and quality of our older cars. So they took a small piece out of my crumpled up front splash pan and welded it into the Buick. But, even with a little of Ford's "Better Idea" installed it is still just another GM.
Bob
57 AGIN
That's funny. If that's the only rust repair on that quarter we'd better not tell that story to the GM guys though, lol.
I think the '57 Buicks have the same back window setup as the '57 Olds with the 3 pieces? I know its blasphemy, but those are some of the best back window ever.
Guys:
There is some real progress under way at last. The 57 and 58 hoods are now finally painted, as is the deck lid. Attached is a photo of the 58 hood and deck lid drying in the paint booth. the bumpers are still undergoing some final smoothing before sending out for the final chroming. These photos are of the bumpers in copper, they still need to be sanded to see if more coats of copper are needed to get all of the waves and/or high & low spots removed. In some respects it is too bad that the trim on my 57 couldn't all be done in copper, it sure would look good with the blue of the paint job. But, I had done my first 57's hood ornament done in copper, it looked great at first but faded pretty quickly. Of course that was long before good clear coats or specialized coating were available.
Monday the insurance appraiser is coming to Santini's to see the progress and estimate the next installment of what will be required to finish their part of the project.
Bob
57 AGIN
God love you Bob, you've got the patience of Job. If my 57 was down that long I'd have forgotten I had one. lol
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2016-03-26 17:57
That's funny. If that's the only rust repair on that quarter we'd better not tell that story to the GM guys though, lol.
I think the '57 Buicks have the same back window setup as the '57 Olds with the 3 pieces? I know its blasphemy, but those are some of the best back window ever.
Not to hijack Bob's thread...but I love those back windows, too! Those cars are bodacious...love the wagons, too.
Hi All:
Well it appears to be moving again, my 57 is finally in the Paint Booth again. I'm not sure how long it will be before I get to take it out on the road again, but maybe in a couple of months. The latest delay may have been due to the fact that the shop wanted to have the insurance appraiser see the amount of body work having been done before all that work was covered by the black primer sealer. That may be why the deck lid and hood have been not only primed but also finished in color.
Bob
57 AGIN
Man o man...
Pays to have good insurance, Bob! They will have quite a bill.
Rob
At least there is some progress being made, much better then the times when things have seemed to stall. I've never had a car in a body shop and can't even guess in my wildest dreams what this kind of work would cost.
You are correct it is going to be quite a bill. So far the insurance company has sent me a check for a bit over $23,000. I've spent all of that in buying the replacement parts and for several installments of payment to the shop for hours spent on repairs. The insurance appraiser has met with Santini and me regarding the progress made thus far and the insurance company will forward another check. Fortunately, as all of you know I've taken photos of all aspects of the repair process and have every receipt paid for work that they are responsible for. He took a bunch of photos when he saw the car and now Pete is free to put color on the car. I'm anticipating that they will be paying another $20 - 30,000 before 57 AGIN is ready for the road again. That doesn't include the extra work I'm paying for on seam sealing, bumper modifications and so on.
The guidance to take from all of this is, "Don't get the car you love into an accident."
Bob
57 AGIN
Oh sure, NOW you tell me!!,lol
I got my copy of the estimate on mine Friday. It's almost double what I was anticipating. Really surprised me as I almost always guess too high.
Bob...Are you going to be making any trip back to the bumper/chrome shop? If you are I may email you a pic of a damaged smoothie bumper (not mine) to show them to see if it can be repaired.
Rich:
Be happy to do so. I have to go by there to see if they have done the sanding on the copper to see if more copper processing is needed.
Bob
57 AGIN
As of yesterday my 57 was back in the paint booth and being sprayed with the black sealer primer. Pete noticed something that looked like 80 grit sanding scratches on the left side of the body after the black sealer primer had been applied. He didn't like that and had that side sanded down to get rid of them. The car was resprayed with the gray primer and was drying. All other parts of the body are now done in the black sealer primer and should be ready for color. At Last.
Bob57 AGIN
Well there has been a slight setback in the progress toward painting the 57. One of the things I was having Santini do is deal and blend in the seam on both the tail light bezels to the rear fender and the headlight eyebrows to the front fenders. Naturally this has to be done very carefully as it involves bonding two dissimilar metals (pot metal and sheet metal) together. Sounds simple enough. However, these two metals have different heat expansion and contraction ratios, which can end up causing a small crack to develop. This did happen, just where the front fender eyebrows end on either side of the fender. Fortunately it happened before application of the final paint job. Pete is trying some carbon fiber patch, which is supposed to be very tough and we'll see if this helps. I've got photos of the crack repairs, but I haven't reduced them in size yet. I'll post them as soon as I can.
Meanwhile, he's painting the oil pan and valve covers again so I can begin reassembling the engine, which I was just cleaning up after two years of shows and driving. I do have the reduced size photos of that.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob...I had exactly the same thing happen on my car. I don't think it had anything to do with heat, dissimilar metals, etc. Mine happened after assembly. (My fenders were painted for several years and were stored in a metal shed in North Texas' extreme heat and cold without any indications of cracking.) It happens when the fenders are assembled onto the car and the nose piece is bolted on...3 bolts each side...just below the bottom of the eyebrow. I believe that bolting distorts the headlight surround enough to seperate it from the eyebrow. Mine eventually cracked both sides for about an inch at the bottom.
You didn't say whether it was the lower outside edge, or the lower inside edge, but based on what I talked about I'd bet money it's on the inner sides. I'd also bet the eyebrow work was done with the fenders off the car.
After my accident when my driver's side eyebrow was hit pretty hard, I now know, except for that assembly distortion, if done correctly, the eyebrows can be done with no worry about cracking. Note in the picture below there is no cracking at the eyebrow seam, even after the hit.
For what it's worth, I used the same approach on the tailight bezels (lots of bonding surface) and the headlight eyebrows with next to nothing for bonding/mating surfaces. After roughing up all bonding surfaces, I used a epoxy adhesive putty with a one hour setting time to allow more working time, and squished that in with the mechanical fasteners/mounting studs. This allows enough time to get the pieces aligned. After the epoxy set, I forced in as much por-15 wherever I could by brushing. That stuff is an incredibly strong adhesive, and it's 4 hour dry time allows it to seep into cracks and creaveses. I'm convinced it's the por-15 that makes this work. After everything is cured, the por-15 has to be removed from any visible surfaces that have to have filler/paint applied, so it's best to minimize that apoeration by cleaning offany visible excess with laquer thinner.
Bob...what I described above is probably too late for your eyebrows since the fill has been done, but at any point, the por-15 can be done to the tailights by brushing in lots of the stuff between the tailight bezel and the body. Just load up a brush and use the bezel to scrape off the excess as you would on a paint can lip after dipping the brush. Get lots in there and hope you never have to remove it!!
Rich:
Mine was quite different. The fenders had not been attached back onto the car, they had been setting out in the sunlight allowing the black primer sealer to thoroughly gas (at least I believe that is why Pete likes to wait a bit before applying color over the primer sealer). The fenders have been sitting both outside and inside the garage area for about 3 weeks. The cracks appeared where the eyebrow end meets with the fender and no where else. The tail light bezels were done months ago and no cracks or trace of where the seam was are visible.
Bob
57 AGIN
I used panel adhesive to bond the fender extensions on both front and rear. It was a gamble and was not completely successful. The extensions were bonded on about five years ago. The paint is nearly 1-1/2 years old. After the bonding, I used AllMetal as filler which also works as a moisture seal. Then finished with standard plastic filler. The body has set in the sun a little...enough to get good and hot and exposed to below freezing temperatures...several of the typical Michigan temperature swings. There is no paint cracking but upon really close inspection, I can see where the two dissimilar metals have moved. Though very slight, I expect a crack or paint failure sometime in the future. I'll live with it until I can't stand it anymore and remove the OEM extensions and fad some sheet metal ones.
Seam doesn't show from 5' and even closer...at least for now. With thousands of dollars in paint work at risk, I will not do it again without fabbing out of sheet metal.
Bob...I'm curiousseems like I remember you having chromed eyebrows...were they stripped or replaced? I can't imagine Santini's guys would be trying to bond something to chrome.
he switched those at the last repaint/restore. Santini talked him out of the chrome eyebrows, tail light housings, etc...
Hi Guys,
Bob never had chrome eyebrows. He gave it some thought after I did my eyebrows but James is right, Santini said the car wouldn't look right with the then paint scheme. I chromed my eyebrows as it went well with my Atlantic Blue and the stainless side trim.
Rick.
Gasman & Rich:
Thanks for your observations and experiences with the dissimilar metals bonding problems. I can certainly see how the severe winter temperatures followed by some hot summer s could lead to shrinkage & swelling to a substantial degree. As a former geology major in college, I learned that solid granite mountains which when subjected to alternating heat & cold coupled with water getting into cracks & crevices & freezing & thawing can eventually cause catastrophic failure. I'm hoping that the relatively mild climate here in Southern Calif and storage of the 57 in my garage when not being driven will allow the bonding to outlive the time I've got left driving. (odd thing to speculate on, isn't it?)
Anyway, here are a few photos showing the area the cracks developed in and the subsequent repair efforts. Also, just as the eyebrow cracks were being repaired on the driver side fender a new set of cracks were discovered to the rear of and slightly below the eyebrow. I believe this was a result of the impact of the accident. This wasn't discovered until after the initial media blasting, followed by gray primer & 200 grit block sanding and the black primer sealing and 400 grit block sanding & sitting in the sunlight for a few weeks. Santini's body man Jeff strengthened this area with welding and I believe some additional sheet metal applied to the inner fender. It has now been treated to the normal body repair process and is once again ready for the black primer sealer and color application. And the beat goes on and on and etc.
Bob
57 AGIN
Finally, here are the rest of the photos of the crack repairs on the fenders & eyebrows.
Bob
57 AGIN
I really like the look of the smoothed seams. I will smooth the next set of fenders. The Michigan 100 degree temperature range has to be a sever stress on the joints of dissimilar metals. The next time, the extensions will likely be sheet metal. This doesn't mean that I will do anything with the current project. I'm still quite pleased. Santini will make it work.
Gasman:
I hope this works out. I talked to Pete today and his plan is to put the 57 into the paint booth and have it sit overnight Tuesday. Then if no new cracks develop overnight he's planning on painting the color coat on Wednesday morning. We'll see how it all turns out.
Bob
57 AGIN
It took a little longer, but 57 AGIN finally has some, not all, of its color on again. Here are some photos of the preliminaries and a portion of the final results. There is lots left to paint and a number of steps yet to come before it is ready for the road again, but I'm hopeful it will happen soon.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here 57 AGIN is in the paint booth and not just for primer.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here are a couple of more and this is where they will all stay over the weekend while a mild Spring storm passes through So Cal.
Bob
57 AGIN
Yahoooooo!!!!!!
Hi Bob,
It looks like things are coming along, now the hard stuff starts, putting it all back together without scratching that gerorous paint. I hope to catch up with you and Rick at the back end of our trip, and hopefully you have your car home so i can have a look. I still have your number so I will give you a call closer to the time and we will see if we can work something out.
cheers Kiwiragtop
kiwiragtop & Rich:
Yeah, Yahoooo and I'm looking forward to seeing you and your lovely wife again. It will be interesting getting the 57 put back together again. Much of which will probably be done by Santini & his crew. We'll have to schedule things pretty closely together, as I'd like the engine & transmission to go in before the radiator, fender wells and fenders are installed. I should be done with my temporary work assignment and be retired again, so finding time to be involved shouldn't be a problem. If nothing else I can be a parts runner when special fasteners are needed from HILLCO, just about two miles from Santini's. The last time it went back together, it was done mostly by Rick and me. It took a good deal of time, as every inch of the frame springs, axels, brakes, etc., had to be cleaned and painted with coats of red oxide and black Rustoleum. This time shouldn't take nearly as much time and effort (I hope).
Bob
57 AGIN
Any updates, Bob?
Rich:
The latest, today, from Pete is that the car is being taped and final preped for going into the paint booth tomorrow for application of the Blue. I'll believe it when I see it in the booth with new paint on it, as this was supposed to happen last Friday so he could get it into the paint booth on Tuesday. As for other progress on the repairs, I went over to Si Helling's on Tuesday and checked out the stainless and chroming. As far as I'm concerned it looks as good as any show quality chroming I've ever seen. Even the 1958 hood scoop piece which almost every one I've seen in the past has at least a few pits in Them, mine has no pits at all. To say I'm pleased is an understatement. While I was there I got to see my bumpers, they had just gotten back from having the second coat of copper applied. They weren't polished yet, but after Si's shop polishes them they will be sent out for the final chroming. I'm told that good chroming starts and ends with good preparation before attempting the plating, after seeing my other pieces I'm a believer. I'm still waiting for another partial payment from the Insurance Company, as the 1st $23,000 is gone and I'm now into my savings. But I think things are moving again. Time will tell.
Bob
57 AGIN
Gotta be frustrating...you gotta be getting to the point where you're trying to figure where the dividing line is between dragging their feet and taking the time to do it right. Same with the insurance company...why the payments?? Is it because of unkown/hidden damage expectations? But why so long? They gotta be making sure your not trying to take advantage and make improvements on the car at their expense.
Just as a point of reference, with Grundy, I had a check for my damage in 2 weeks with just a note saying it was for the damage found with the initial damage appraisal and to contact them if further damage was discovered. The building I damaged has also been repaired and cost covered by Grundy in short time. 1/2 the premium cost of others. You might say I'm happy.
How is your car coming along Rich? Haven't heard much about it.
X2 What clusterbuster said
I'll get my build thread updated soon.
Guys:
Re the Insurance Company, their delay at this point is due to the local property damage appraiser, who came out about 6 weeks ago and took photos of the progress. I showed him all of the receipts for parts I've bought for the repairs and for the work I've paid for out of the $23K they already sent me. He didn't take any photos of my receipts and some weeks later said he needed to have me scan them and send them to him. Since I was back at work during that time I just didn't have time to get that done. When my temporary job was over, it took me about 8.5 hours do get all the scanning done and get them sent off to him. I should be hearing from the Insurance Company pretty quick. As far as I can tell, the local appraiser has been the hold up on getting a progress installment from the Insurance Company. We'll see. As soon as I receive my pay check from my temporary job, I'll be picking up my stainless & chrome pieces. That should happen this week.
Bob
57 AGIN
Rich:
The 57 is finally back in the paint booth. It has been there for several days. They, Pete and one of his workers, are busy taping off the areas not to be turned Blue. The rest of the car has already been sprayed Pewter. I'll be picking up my stainless & chrome tomorrow. Pete needs the hockey stick and front fender stainless to determine exactly where the dividing lines are between the Blue and Pewter. It is nice to see something happening again. The photos I took on Monday are attached to this post.
Bob
57 AGIN
RichL
Here are the photos I took today. Needless to say I'll be there tomorrow, too.
Bob
57 AGIN
Well now it has finally happened, both blue and pewter paint is once again on 57 AGIN. The body is in better shape than when done in 2011, but there is still a long way to go before it's on the road again. I'm looking forward to putting the engine back together (just the oil pan, which has been repainted and getting the carb, carb enclosure, blower fittings back together and the distributor reinstalled). Those pieces were removed to provide access to re-polish the Air Gap intake manifold and blower enclosure and stainless tubing leading from the blower to the carb enclosure. I also had all the alternator brackets re-chromed as they were pretty scratched up during the accident. Anyway, I've attached photos of the repainting. Pete is still coming up with some ideas for the Fairlane type trim area, which will continue to be painted in some fashion, it should be a little more striking this go around. Definitely some new tires and probably some new rims as well.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here are a few more photos. The captions are self explanatory.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here are some more.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here are the last few.
Bob
57 AGIN
WOW, Can't wait to see what the side colors between the stainless is going to look like. So far the paint looks Bitchen!
57 Tudor.
:unitedstates:
Yep...what Rick said!!
Yeah...what Rich said Rick said!
Yep, looks absolutely fantastic, can't wait to see it back together.
Thanks Guys, me too.
Santini is getting ready to paint the side trim. The fenderwells are installed, but not yet painted and the driver side fender is the only part out of the paint booth not yet color sanded. His next step is to install the fenders temporarily and do the side trim painting. I think he will use a different approach this time so it won't be a continual color fade front to back as it was last time. I'm anxious to see what he comes up with this time. If I don't like it, he can always redo it like it was last time as it was an eye catcher and I liked it.
Bob
57 AGIN
The final painting chapter is about to begin. Today I helped Pete Santini temporarily install, tape off and mark where the side trim painting will take place. Hopefully very soon. The first photos are showing the car with the fenders temporarily mounted, the next couple are of Pete temporarily installing the hocky sticks prior to marking where they co and applying tape to positively show where the paint is to be applied.
Bob
57 AGIN
These next 4 photos show the side trim temporarily installed followed by a couple showing Pete busy marking how far the side trim extends. This helps him to determine exactly where he will eventually mask off the areas he will be painting.
Bob
57 AGIN
The final photos are of Pete marking the side trim and of him applying the painters guide tape to exactly where his painting will be done. The next step is the final masking and then back into the paint booth for the final paint appliction. Here is only a couple of more things requiring painting, fenderwells and other miscellaneous pieces. Reassembly should start soon.
Bob
57 AGIN
Went over to Santini's today and it is one step closer to having the trim stripe painted. Pete was in the process of applying paper and tape to ensure against over spray when he paints the stripe. Later this week (I hope)
Bob
57 AGIN
Here is the latest from out West on getting my 57 back on the road again. This last week has been spent with Pete figuring out what he's going to do in painting the trim area on my Custom 300, both he and I were looking for something a little different than a straight fade. He wasn't too happy with the almost turquoise at the front fading to a very deep blue to the rear of the 300's door. With the very limited vertical space the options are pretty limited. Both he and I were in agreement that what would be done would be pretty subtle. He decided on doing a fingerprint type design inside the stripe, of course, I didn't have a clue what that meant. So he surprised me. I'll let the photos kind of speak for themselves. So far only the driver side is done, let me know what you all think.
The first 4 photos show the stripe preparation. 1st a coating of medium sized metal flake was applied to the entire stripe, he followed this by wet sanding this to smooth out the flakes that weren't laying flat.
The next 3 photos show Pete applying painter's stripe tape to the previously sprayed and sanded metalflake. This was a very slow and labor intensive process. While he was doing this I watched, still wondering how this could possibly be made to look subtle.
Bob
57 AGIN
Wow, Bob. I can hardly wait until the next installment. Keep us in the loop.
The final 4 photos show Pete doing some samples for me to look at and choose a color treatment. My choices for this were a all blue fade from the front of the car to be behind the door, somewhat like before (but no turquoise). The next was a fade of blues on the outside fading to silver metalflake on the inside (I didn't select this one as up front it was just too narrow to see how it would work). Finally, just an all silver color with some charcoal fading from the stainless trim to the center on the trim piece (I didn't select this either for a similar reason and I just like blue better). I think when the tape and paper are removed and the color sanding buffed out the newly painted trim will look pretty darn good. Worse, comes to worse, the trim portion of the car can be redone for a relatively reasonable cost.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
Not a whole lot to report, other than the passenger side trim is now painted.Here are a couple of more photos of the side trim paint being applied. I can hardly wait until all the tape and masking comes off, the trim gets color sanded and the paint is finally buffed out. You just can't tell a whole lot about how the car will really look until it gets unwrapped and finished. Anyway, progress is being made and the end may be just a little closer.
Bob
57 AGIN
She is coming along slow but sure. Looking at the brake master cylinder, what kind of braking system do you have?
James:
Both Rick and I have the ABS Electric Hydraulic barking systems. These systems eliminate the need for vacuum powered brakes, which is a godsend for performance cars whose engines don't develop very much vacuum. I've attached a few photos of the master cylinder, the Line lock, and the electric hydraulic booster pump. Rick's electric hydraulic booster pump is frame mounted directly below his master cylinder, mine is mounted directly onto the frame under the driver's seat. Hope this helps.
Bob
57 AGIN
Thanks for the good pictures. Looks like a good set up. I assume you had that set up when you had the accident.
Guys:
Here are the latest photos from Santini's shop. On the driver side the masking paper and tape have been removed. The next photo is showing the passenger side, but the tape and masking paper have only been removed from the bottom. Pete has cleared both side trim panels and the trim areas are ready for color sanding and then the car will be ready for buffing. As I was hoping the design inside the trim area will end up very subtle. One of the main differences with what Pete did with the trim area this time aside from the fingerprint design is that he used medium size metal flake instead of the fine size he used last time and he didn't use the light turquoise at the very front. It will be interesting to see the overall effect with the car buffed out and all the stainless side trim back on the car.
Bob
57 AGIN
James:
Yes, this setup was on the car at the time of the accident. After thinking the whole accident through. If I would have had a quicker reaction time or better brakes (6 piston Brembo's, etc.) I still probably wouldn't have had time to avoid hitting the 370Z sporty car in front of me AND if I had avoided hitting the Z car, the Chevy that ran into me would have hit me much harder. This could have resulted with more severe injuries to me as well as the Chevy's driver and his wife and child. The lighter damage to the front end possibly could have been offset by more rear end damage and a possible gas tank rupture, which could have really spoiled everyones day.
Will I drive more defensively? Yes!!! Will I still take my car out on the California freeways? Yes!!! I guess I'm just too old to mend my ways and I like driving my cars too much to just have them sit in the garage in hopes they won't get hurt.
Bob
57 AGIN
Yes we are too old to mend our ways, as I am the same age as you. I absolutely love to drive and tinker with my 57 as well. Probably will never convert to the braking set up you have, but I do have a new CPP power brake booster, proportioning valve and master cylinder set up, with 4 wheel disc brakes. I look forward to seeing pictures of your ride when it is all done.
clusterbuster & James:
Sorry I got mixed up in my replies re clusterbuster's last comments re his & my brakes. I just noticed my error in addressees. It's probably another one of those age things. lol
Bob
57 AGIN
Well Guys:
Finally some more progress to report on. Today when I went to Santini's I found Pete busy taping off a damaged area on the firewall for some last minute touch up before the hopefully final color sanding and polishing. The fenderwells were also being readied for another coat of Pewter, before the blue will be applied.
I've been told (?) that when the old solvent based paints were used, the solvents gassed out very quickly, but now days using the water based paints a considerable time must elapse between the various stages of painting. Is that a wives tale or fact? If it is fact my cars paint job should last into the next century (lol). The first coat of color (Pewter) was applied to the body & fenders four months ago, the first blue was applied 3 months ago and the side trim was applied 3 weeks ago. By the time actual color sanding and polishing happens any paint gassing/drying, etc. should be well finished. Anyway, progress is progress, however slow.
Bob
57 AGIN
Well I finally have a couple of more photos and can report on some more progress being made on my 57.
This first set of photos deal with preparing the radiator side air deflector for paint. The remaining photos are of the fenderwells and steering column support in the paint booth getting a final coat of Pewter applied.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here are some photos I shot today. Pete gave the fenderwells the two tone treatment and painted some other miscellaneous pieces Blue. They were all sitting in the sun to dry out. Now, if he can just have his staff color sand the car and pieces and polished all of them it will be time for reassembly to begin.
Bob
57 AGIN
beyond words, Bob. That's gonna be an awesome engine bay.
Rich:
Actually, this color combination is the same as it was when I got it out of Santini's in 2012. I thought then and still do think that matching the exterior colors of the car in the engine compartment is a nice touch. I know it is no where near a stock look, but then again I wasn't looking for numbers matching in my restomod.
Here is a shot taken by Jim Smart for a photo shoot that never wound up in the magazine that went out of business.
Bob
57 AGIN
So much to look at, I never caught the fact the car previously had 2 toned inner fenders. Nice touch.
Pass Christian is in Ms, btw, not LA. LOL...I only knew that because I looked to see when I was double checking Lynn's location. Couldn't remember where James lived, I just knew it was around there somewhere
Hey Guys:
The end is getting a little closer, Pete has his worker starting to buff out the 57's body. Woo Who!!! His finishing process is as follows: First buffing process starts with standard 3M Rubbing Compound, then another pass using 3M Perfect-it Rubbing Compound, then he does machine glazing using 3M Perfect-it Machine Polish, next he uses 3M Perfect-it Ultra Fine Machine Polish, Lastly when the car is fully assembled he has his worker hand apply a final coat of polish. I never knew how many steps he used last time the car was painted. No wonder his paint retains its beauty for many years. Definitely not a quickie Earl Schieb job.
Bob
57 AGIN
LOL...I'm starting to see that operation in my sleep.....but for me it'll be 2 steps at the most. I use Maguires Diamond cut 2.0 Which gets it from the sanding to the pics I posted in my build thread. I may go back and do an overall polish if I can see a difference.
Rich:
I fully understand. If it weren't for the insurance company footing this bill and if I had to do it all by my lonesome, I'd be looking for a fewer stage process.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
Here is today's installment of the 57's saga at Santini's. The car was in the final stages of Machine Polishing with the 3M Perfect-it Ultrafine Machine Polish when I arrived this afternoon. These photos show it done and in progress.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
While I was at Santini's, I called Sihelling's to see how my bumpers were coming with the re-chroming processes. I was told they were delivered to Wheeler's today (Wheeler's was the shop doing the bumper modifications). I went over there and found them to be very nice. Not quite Grand National Roadster Show perfect, but really much nicer than a typical street driver's bumpers. I'm really getting excited at the progress. Santini tells me that he's planning on having his guys finish assemble the body of the car from the firewall to the trunk in the next couple of weeks. Then I'll have it towed about a mile to Westminster Transmission for the installation of the engine and transmission. That shop was the shop that pulled the engine and transmission out last year, so the engine could be checked out by the builder and the transmission could be checked out by the transmission shop (following the accident there was minor leakage coming from the transmission). Then the car will be towed either back to Santini's final body assembly or to the Upholstery shop for re-installation of the upholstery which ever shop has the greater availability at that time.
Bob
57 AGIN
Very nice.....I really like the exhaust clearance in the bumper and the smoothie look. Can't remember if they were smoothies previously or something new.
Rich:
The smoothie bumpers and exhaust tip radius are new thoughts. I really hope I like the look, I never minded the bumper bolts or bumper guards but I wanted to do something a little different. Same thing with the trim Fairlane type trim strip, that still may go back to Santini's for a re-paint if it doesn't compliment the overall look. Too soon to tell, without the stainless trim mounted.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
As it gets closer to reinstalling the engine & transmission and reassembling the rest of the car I've been taking care of some miscellaneous items. The thermostat housing was a chromed piece that was corroding badly and really wouldn't take a good Polish, so I saw a really nice polished stainless one at Wheelers installed on a small block Ford and ordered a replacement. Also, the alternator was beat up a little bit from the accident and was badly scratched, so it is out being rebuilt and chromed. Since I had to have this alternator rebuilt once before (due to diode failure on a road trip) and getting any of the new aftermarket alternators, which are mostly built out of the USA, wasn't an option I wanted to take a chance on. I'm having Wheelers rebuild this one with quality replacement bearings and electrical internals using the best parts available and having the case, pulley and front cover sent out for re-chroming.
Bob
57 AGIN
While I was over at Wheelers, I noticed that the rear of the re-chromed bumpers looked a lot better than when they had been sent out for chroming. So I decided to take a couple of photos of them. I believe Wheelers is still going to apply some kind of finish to the rear of the bumpers to complete their portion of the job. I see that the new studs mounted to the bumpers had to be covered to prevent the re-chroming process from messing up the threads.
Bob
57 AGIN
OUTSTANDING Bob!
Guys:
Well it is a new week and behold, more progress on putting the 57 back together. On Monday I went over to Santini's and found Jeff mocking up the side trim on my 57. Then later in the day I found Jeff working on the wiring harness in the trunk following his installation of the tail lights. I believe their next step is to have the glass guy they use to reinstall the glass, followed by their re-installing the stainless around the glass.
Bob
57
agin
Here is the rear end view with the tail lights installed and Jeff working on the rear wiring harness.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
Today's progress was slight, but it gave both Pete and I a good chance to see how the painted side trim looked with the stainless in place. Pete was correct when he had stated that the background fingerprint design will end up being very subtle the eyes are mostly drawn to the stainless. I can hardly wait until the engine is back in so the front fenders can be mounted to see the overall effect.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob,
Both my headlight buckets had to be replaced with new ones. My body guy did the same thing yours is doing. Don't know if he used bondo or welded it up to get rid of that seam, but, I will say I didn't like it. Looks nice, but I wanted the exterior and interior to be stock in appearance. Just me. No one, absolutely no one has ever pointed that out to me on my car. You've got to be a purist to know the difference anyway. Jim
Jim:
I fully understand your thoughts and many purists won't like what I've done, But I had my reasons based mostly on how I grew up. I guess I got my desire to modify an already good looking car to personalize it a bit more. I grew up reading Rod & Custom and a variety of other customizing magazines and always wanted to have mine a little different. I think I once mentioned that I thought Ford really blew it when they discontinued the Crown Victoria in 1956. I actually went to Wheelers and asked for a ballpark estimate on doing that to my custom 300. They said at least $25,000, which was way out of the question for me financially. It would certainly have looked "bitchen" and it would definitely been one of a kind. However, reason held me up and it probably would have turned my driver into a garage queen. I really liked the way Rick's tail light bezels looked and made my decision to do both the tail light bezels and the headlight eyebrows along with the other exposed seams. I can hardly wait to see how it all comes together.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob....Amazing how much time is involved in assembly. I think everything is coming together just great, and you've made great choices on everything. I like the subtle insert design. As far as the seams, I look at some mild customs and wonder why things like that were not done. To me, it just falls in with the "cleaning up". I'll bet if we were to find the original artist's/designers drawings of the '57, you wouldn't see the seams. Those are to facilitate production, not design imho.
With that said, Jim, nowadays it's almost impossible to replace headlight surrounds and have an oem look even if a factory look is what you wanted. The aftermarket surrounds are so badly shaped there is no way to attach them so there is a factory looking seam. I think I figured out how to alter those replacement surrounds so they do look factory, but I think it would add a few days labor to each panel at best for an expert metalworker. Of course, you could luck out and find some Ford oem replacement headlight surrounds, but what are the odds of that happening just when you find out you need them.
I am giving serious consideration to welding that seam and the one on the splash pans as it is really difficult to get them clean and sealed to prevent rust from starting. Kinda like the seam on the top of British produced (MG/Sprite/Triumph/Jaguar) cars. First place to show rust and impossible to stop......
One less edge to sand through during color sanding!!
Guys:
I forgot to mention that when Jeff was reinstalling the door handles he removed a piece of masking tape and sure enough some of the chrome peeled off with the tape. I can't remember when I purchased the door handles. It was either in 2004 when I first got the 57 on the road after doing the initial safety & cosmetic build, or in 2012 following the frame-on restoration done by Santini at that time. Of course they were probably re-pops and more than likely made in Taiwan or China. I took them both over to Sihelling's for to be rechromed using American technology. Sometimes you just don't get what you paid for. Dennis Carpenter or Concours Parts are in fact made by the lowest bidder. IMO
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob,
Fully understand where you're coming from. I spent months trying to find good Headlight Eyebrows and after they were painted the nuts holding them on were very carefully tightened. I'd hate to look for those parts again. The gold inlays on the fenders and doors are re-poped. The door handles as well as the fin stainless are re-poped. I guess I bought one of everything that EMS made and my body guy got them to make a couple things ( most rearward body mounts, and outside lower trunk pan) that they didn't make. The seams we were talking about still look great today after 8 years. So, the bondo's held up I guess.
I had my OEM handles plated six years ago. It was cheaper to buy the reproductions by $25-30 for the pair.
Guys:
It is getting closer to engine & transmission re-install. Here are a couple of photos of the preparations before it goes to another shop for the drive train re-install. They include: window & vent window re-install, gas tank re-install and a couple of shots on the hoist. Today they will re-install the door handles. Oh, and by the way the rear bumper was sent back to be re-done once more as Santini spotted a couple ob bubbles in the chrome that were very visible in direct sunlight. No one had spotted these under shop lighting. As they say one step forward & 1.5 steps back.
Bob
57 AGIN
Well, it has finally happened the 57;s engine & transmission were re-installed on Thursday. The car was delivered to Westminster Transmission where the engine had been removed nearly 2 years ago. It didn't go back together without a fight. The headers wouldn't go in past the steering box, so the engine was lifted sufficiently to drop the headers past the steering box. after that the rest went much easier and the car is now back at Santini's. It will be interesting to see it all going back together at last again.
Bob
57 AGIN
The engine after being jacked up for clearance allowed the headers to be easily re-installed. The transmission, drive shaft & gear shift are now back where they belong.
Bob
57 AGIN
There is a light at the end of the tunnel! :003:
Looking great! Been a long recovery but it certainly looks to be worth the effort.
Guys:
It has been over a month since there has been any real progress on my 57. I've re-attached the windshield wiper motor & the hood release mechanism and have spent many, many hours searching for the core support spring perch and shims. These became separated from the core support during the reinstallation of the engine & transmission and I wasn't able to locate them anywhere at Santini's, Westminster Transmission, in my Shelby or at my house. So I re-ordered the needed parts from Steve Pierce in in Twentynine Palms, CA and received them yesterday. This set the project back for about a month, but next week it should be back on track again. These few simple parts aren't re-popped and are pretty scarce around here. The bumpers are back from being re-chromed again due to waviness in the rear bumper and a flaw in the chrome on the front bumper. I haven't seen them yet, but I believe they will be satisfactory this time. It took Santini's eye for detail and good work to detect the problems with the bumper chroming and it didn't cost anything more to have the problems corrected. The fenders, bumpers, grill, etc., should be back on the car soon. Now that the car show is finished, some good friends I served with in the military over 40 years ago have come out West and gone home and as soon as I can get the Christmas decorations up and running I can get back to getting the 57 back on the road. Making sure the wiring and upholstery are up to snuff will be up to me.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob
57 AGIN
It's been a long haul for you Bob, but at least when you get it done (redone?) it's gonna be the best. I'll bet you had no clue it was going to take this long....I'm guessing a year and a half -two years since the accident?
Rich:
The accident happened on Valentines Day 2015. Almost 2 years ago, my Valentines Day Massacre.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
Here's a little update on my 57, not a lot to report on about 3 months after getting the drive train reinstalled. The car now has the core support and fender aprons back on. The driver side fender is on and taped along the door edges to facilitate mocking up the fitment without chipping the paint. I had to get another battery tray as the one I had originally got didn't fit a 57 Ford, it probably was out of a 59. Just delivered it to Santini today, after getting it sand blasted. Thank God for Steve Pierce out in Twentynine Palms. It has been so long since the disassembly that I've forgotten how lots of things fit and when to install them. Thanks to Rick Crawford, who not only has taken apart and put back together many 57 Fords, he's able to come by the shop occasionally to clue us in on some of the idiosyncrasies of the 57 Fords reassembly. But it is coming together, I may be overly optimistic but I think Santini finally wants to free up a space in his shop, so my 57 will move up in their priorities.
I've attached a couple of photos, including: Fender aprons & core support reinstalled, the driver side fender mocked up, door weather strip partially reinstalled, and the correct and incorrect battery trays (I think the painted one is from a 59 which has a wider front fender). Most of the wiring, the radio antennae and battery tray go onto the passenger side, that should happen next week. Rick pointed out a clearance issue with the oil pan and the front suspension so we may be trying to shift the engine/transmission around a bit.
Bob
57 AGIN
What did you use for the seal between the outer edge of the fender apron/inner fender and the outer fender? I had my inner fenders powder coated and the rubber seals just won't do to put back in service.
Terry
terry_208:
Quite frankly, I don't remember any seals between the fender aprons and the outer fender. There is on that attaches to the bottom of the fender apron that goes down to the frame, it attaches with staples. I'll see if there is anything in my trim book.
Bob
57 AGIN
There is...DC sells it, however, since mine was not a factory restoration, I went with a dome shaped rubber weatherstrip, I think made by Rodtiques? I remember it was made for 30's type cars as a door seal. Self adhesive...grips like crazy after a day or so. Pretty easily repositionable for a period of time.
I'm in Phoenix for a funeral, but I may have time to go to SoCal speed shop which is where I bought it...I'll some info on it.
Thanks, I was just curious as sometime I'll need to do something to seal the inner fender to the outer fender. Who knows, it may take years, hopefully not though!
Happy New Year:
Yes, the 57 is still in at Santini's, one step forward, then one sometimes two backward. The aprons and core support are back off the car to help with reinstalling the heater hoses, supercharger intake plumbing both to and from the blower housing, valve covers, etc. Rick has been coaching the body guy at Santini's on 57 body assembly specifics. We are to the point where we need the front sheet metal, aprons, fenders and core support installed. Santini's body guy has to do that. However, the door seals have to be fully attached so all the sheet metal will align properly. Then once the passenger side apron has been installed, Rick and I need to run the wiring harness forward, re-hookup the MSD wiring and move it out of the way so the body guy can install the fender & radio antennae. After that Rick & I can reinstall the radiator and wiring to the electric fans, thermostat, headlights, horns and turn signals. It is getting closer to completion, but we're not there yet. I'll post a few photos of what's been going on during the last month.
The 1st photos are of the driver side apron where the air intake for the supercharger is placed either side of that fender apron (Note: the K7N air filter is directly behind the left headlight). The next couple are of the engine as it is being reassembled in the car.
The final couple of photos are of the exhaust system 3/4 reinstalled and the rear end where the bumper bracket and exhaust tips will be mounted. The bumper bracket will have to be massaged a bit and the final exhaust pipe extension will have to be rerouted to the outside of the frame to align with the new exhaust tip location on the rear bumper.
That's it for now. Right now we are waiting for the body guy to do his thing so Rick and I can get back to doing our part to get the car running again.
Bob
57 AGIN
You have the patience of a saint, Bob. LOL....I looked at 193B quickly and wondered what all that crumpled sheetmetal was......til I realized it was a tarp.
Well Guys:
At Rick's suggestion we finally took the bull by the horns and we came over to Santini's shop and began reassembling everything we could. Starting late last week and the first 3 days this week the car is now ready to be transported to my garage, where Rick with me helping where I can will be getting the electrical system and engine ready to run. With a series of storms coming in over the next few days I'll be clearing out work space in the garage so we can have the car transported here next Monday or Tuesday. When the car is running again, I'll have the upholstery reinstalled (did I mention, I had Steve Stanford prepare a number of upholstery options to make subtle minor modifications to the existing upholstery) and then drive the car back to Santini's for final finishing. The car should be ready in time for the Annual Fabulous Fords Forever Show at Knott's Berry Farm on April 30, 2017. I still have to decide on tires and rims, but we're getting close to the conclusion of this latest segment of my 57's rehabilitation.
The next series of photos show some of the final steps in preparing the car for transport to my house. 1st photo is of Rick working on the passenger side door lock mechanism. The 2nd photo shows the final ground flush studs on the passenger side fender trim near the rear of the fender. The 3rd photo shows the driver side fender finally attached to the core support. The 4th photo shows Santini's body mechanic aligning the passenger fender and body mounting holes in the area where the major damage occurred in the accident.
The next series of photos begin with the passenger side fender installed. The 2nd photo shows Rick working on installing the supercharger air intake through the driver side fender apron. The 3rd photo shows the body mechanic adjusting the air intake bolt holes on the fender apron. The 4th photo shows the door seal finally completely installed on the driver side door.
The next series of photos starts with the front splash pan on the driver side needing to have the end reattached after body prep caused the factory spot welds to detach (Rick said the same thing happened when his 57 was being painted 17 years ago. The 2nd photo shows Rick and the body mechanic beginning the reinstallation of the deck lid seal. The 3rd photo shows the two man teamwork involved in doing a very clean gluing of the seal to the deck lid (I'm told a one man job can be pretty messy). The 4th photo shows the deck lid seal completely installed and drying before it being reattached to the car.
Bob
57 AGIN
Finally the last two photos. The 1st one shows Rick and the body mechanic aligning the closure of the deck lid. The 2nd photo just shows the 57 all covered up in anticipation of the incoming series of storms expected during the next 5 or 6 days. Hooray, the extreme drought here in the Southland may finally be easing.
The car will be transported to my garage as soon as the storms are done and lots of electrical and finish work can be done.
Bob
57 AGIN
I'm curious. How well did the trunk lid fit after installing that trunk lid seal. Mine is still tough to close after having been installed over a year ago. Seems like the rubber used today is harder than what Henry used back in the day.
Ecode70D
The rubber we had was very pliable. After we got the trunk lid back on and the alignment set where we wanted it, it opened and closed just fine. We are having some minor issues with the two door seals as the doors will close with some effort to the first catch. These door seals were very pliable except for the large area where the doors close into the windshield area. We will give it some time and then go to the fully closed position. When we get the car back to Bob?s house next week, I plan to use a strap and pull the doors together.
Rick,
57Tudor
:unitedstates:
The door seals: I did as you are doing and let the door stick out from the body for a while. Car shows caused me to increase the adjustment to get it back where it should be. I wish I'd taken more time with my seals. When the seals finally collapsed I think I went too far.
On the door seals, I had to trim the thick pieces that fit against the A posts at the windshield area. It was the only way to get the doors to close.
Jay....I have no issue with my trunk closing. Perhaps a vertical adjustment on your lower catch so the piece on the trunk lid grabs sooner? I did have to play around with mine to get it right. The only issue I have with my trunk seal is it wants to stick to the body. A coating of silicon helped alot, but only for 4 or 5 days. I'm looking for something else to make it not stick.
One thing I discovered when I was taking my car apart for repaint is what was making my doors hard to close was not the seals as I had suspected all along. It was my thick door panels against the new windlace. Once I took the door panels off, the doors closed super easy!
[quote author=RICH MUISE Perhaps a vertical adjustment on your lower catch so the piece on the trunk lid grabs sooner? I did have to play around with mine to get it right. The only issue I have with my trunk seal is it wants to stick to the body. A coating of silicon helped alot, but only for 4 or 5 days. I'm looking for something else to make it not stick.
[/quote]
I adjusted the lower latch first thing. Closing the trunk is starting to get easier.
As far as sticking to the body, it seems that I read somewhere that putting a little Vaseline on it keeps it from sticking and also helps it to close easier.
Guys:
Just waiting for another check from the Insurance Company so I can "bail" the car out from the body shop without tapping real deep into savings. The garage is cleaned out, misc. nuts & bolts are being cleaned & painted, the upholstery shop is awaiting the interior re-installation and Rick and I are ready to hook up the electrical systems, bleed the brakes and get the engine ready to start. After we finish all of the above the car will go back to Santini's for final detailing, buffing etc. and installing the refurbished bumpers. As of my last posts about the car and getting it home I wasn't aware that the final shop bills had to be taken care of before the car came home even temporarily for Rick and I to do our thing. I guess I understand that when thousands of dollars are involved, that more than prior business dealings a hand shake come into play. We'll keep you advised of future progress as it occurs.
Bob
57 AGIN
Well Guys:
2 years and 1 month later 57 AGIN is finally home again. The insurance Company, Infinity Select, sent the check I needed to bail the 57 out of the body shop and March 30Th the car was towed to my home, about 8 miles from Santini's. Right now the fit is a bit tight in my garage, as I had a roll up electric garage door installed while the 57 was in the body shop, consequently I lost about 6 - 8 inches of front to rear space. I now will have to rip out a bench & shelving in the back of the garage in order to fit the car straight in and clear the bumpers when they are back on the car. Meanwhile, Rick and I are doing final sheet metal, wiring & etc. to get the car back on the road. Attached are a few photos of what has been done. I'm taking my time, as a certified non-mechanic and under the guidance of Rick who really knows what he's doing, so I don't mess up even the simple things. I hope you don't get bored with my slow progress, but it is what it is.
The 1st series of photos show the car getting home and the rest show the various pieces going back onto the car.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
For some reason this post didn't post yesterday when I posted the first 3 photos. I'll try again. The 1st thing was to reinstall the new radiator, as the old one was really crunched during the accident. I still have to work on cutting to proper length some new stainless radiator hoses to replace the old ones. The next photo is of the reinstalled radiator overflow/catch tank, which fortunately didn't get banged up in the accident. Finally a photo of the reinstalled coil, before adding the supercharger it was mounted to the engine but now is in a spot with a lot less vibration (unless of course the fender gets banged again. NOT!!!). We almost have the replacement electric antennae installed. Rick is working on fabricating a brace to the firewall to prevent the antennae from wiggling around. The antennae and most all of the wiring leading to the front of the car will be hidden by a fabricated panel holding the MSD 6AL ignition box that bolts to the fender and firewall. There is still plenty to be done, but it is on the way.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob, I remember the car back when it was teal and white and a matching interior with a surfer attitude. I especially liked the photo's of it drag racing. Remember those days Bob. LOL Seriously, glad to see you get it back home. Hope you get it back on the road soon. Jim
Seems like I did this once before!! :old:
Looking good Bob!
Sooooo great to see this coming together again. Great work and patience, Rick and Bob.
Guys:
Lots of progress made today. The antennae is in, the horns, hood hinges and headlights are back on the car. I also glued (3M Black Adhesive stuff) the last 2 rubber weather seals onto the doors, the main weather strip had already been done by Santini (yes, the doors are very hard to close completely, but the rubber seals seem to be relaxing and it gets easier to close the doors, still not like factory, but getting better). Thank god for a guru like Rick when putting a 57 back together. Santini wanted to put the nose piece on before we brought the car home, but we'd have had to take it off to install the horns & hood hinges. Not knowing, or remembering what order things need to be reassembled could sure lengthen the process.
Tomorrow, I'll be running some parts errands and going over to Santini's and Wheelers to discuss some of the bumper remounting issues.. I want to get the radiator hoses hooked back up again, but am going to get some advice on this from Wheeler's. They have very smooth and good looking hose setups on their engines and I'm going to look into something other than the corrugated stainless ones I've been running. I'll let you know what I end up with.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
Here's the latest update and honestly Rick and I are both working on the car. I am helping, but picture taking is important, too. Isn't it?
Today we made considerable progress. The grill was assembled and LED amber parking lights and the required resistors were installed and tested. Boy, are they ever bright. The grill was installed, as was the gravel shield, lots of specific sized nuts & bolts (Rick has an amazing memory for what goes where and when it's best to assemble it). Then we reinstalled the sway bar using some tricks that he learned on this Forum to center the rubber and it's surrounding bracket (the Text & Illustrations Catalogs refer to these pieces as the insulator & retainer to stabilizer, I think Rick called the rubber and it's bracket a bushing) onto a straight part of the sway bar so that it doesn't bind on a bend on the sway bar. We finished the day up with installing the front bumper support brackets.
My next project is installing the radiator hoses and making sure the hoses are all water tight.
Bob
57 AGIN
Looking great Bob,..... ya gotta be Happy!
Jeff
everything looks extremely tidy, great progress!
Sorry, but I lost my Parts Manual and haven't replaced it yet so I don't know the part numbers.
I have a 57 Ford Country Sedan station wagon 79C and it has a third seat, ours faces towards the front (not towards the rear tailgate window, don't even know if this exists but thought I'd specify). When it is lifted into a seated position, there are two visible long elbow type brackets, one on each side behind the seat that unfolds and extends to hold the seat in place. When the seat is folded, the brackets go down into the floor board. I am looking for the brackets.
Also, I think there is a 2-3" round metal latch embedded into the rear floorboard near the tailgate; it is a flat spare-tire cover-door that allows us to lift up the door and access the spare tire. I also need this.
Is there any way to get hold of Steven out there in the desert? I'm pretty sure it's the same Steven I got a front fender from back in 1990? I'll drive there if I can get more info on his whereabouts?
Thank you.
Maggie
Welcome to the forum. I couldn't figure out why you were posting in Bob's thread until you asked about the salvage yard Bob talked about earlier in this post..you obviously have been reading alot!
contact info: go to our "57 Ford supplier and service links" a few boards down from this "general discussion" board and open up the salvage yard links. Their listed by state, including Steve's in 29 Palms.
Hallelujah:
57 AGIN's engine is alive and running. Unfortunately, it keeps running when the key is turned off, no not from timing or dieseling. Rick's thinking about this and going to trace the circuitry from the ignition switch back. But, it is alive and didn't sound too bad. No screeching or other unusual sounds. We did find that the CD player, which was on during the accident took a beating and needs replacement as do the pair of speakers mounted under the rear package tray. The radio works fine, too. I'm trying to locate a hi pitch horn as both of the horns that came with the replacement front clip did not work. I found a really ugly pair of horns in one of my spare parts boxes, the low-pitch one worked, but the hi-pitch one didn't. I've contacted Steve Pierce about a working one. It's really too bad, as the two non-working horns now mounted on the car were both cleaned and painted a looked great. Steve Pierce has never seen one of the half-round e-brake cable covers that mounts on the floor. Maybe that is just an Mid-West and East Coast thing. Still getting things sorted out, but getting closer to back on the road.
Bob
57 AGIN
My car suddenly had the issue of running after the key was turned off. Turned out to be the alternator. Replaced it, no problem since.
I just watched a video with Lucky Costa fixing that same issue on "the Draguar". He wired a diode in line one of the alternator connectors to fix the problem. I can find that video again if you are interested in what he did to fix it.
Found the video if anyone is interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW2AVJtIwp8
Hi Guys,
Went over to Bob's today and did some quick checks. The exciter lead for the alternator was in the wrong pin connecter. All systems function as they should now. As Edd China would say "Job Done" We received some tail light rings from Concours today and the chrome on one of them was junk. I cant believe they missed that when they were filling the order :deadhorse: , so that one will go back for replacement. Speakers, and a new CD player and my part is done. Then its off to upholstery and then tail pipes. The hood is last as we plan to drive over to Santini's where both hoods are. I think the 58 hood will go on first to see how it looks on the car with the color scheme. More to come.
Rick
57Tudor
:unitedstates:
Guys:
Rick was almost right, it seems like CD Changers have now gone the way of the 8-tracks & Cassette recorders. No one makes them any more. everything is now Bluetooth, etc. CustomAuto Sound no longer makes a 57 Ford replica radio with the original kind of face plate (they do still make Tri-five Brand X's though). I was really bummed, as I really liked traveling & listening to my favorite Duane Eddy albums & surf tunes. Seems like at the time of the accident I was listening to my Cd's and the 10 disc Kenwood CD changer got crunched. However, I was able to source through Classic Auto Stereos a nice 1957 Ford Town & Country radio with Bluetooth. So I guess I'll have to change to the new technology. Unfortunately, it will be 12 weeks to get the radio built, as the company doing them is small and they are on back order. At least my old radio wasn't trashed in the accident so I can listen to some tunes, just not my tunes.
When we fired the engine we also tested all the electrical hookups and everything worked except for the nicely painted horns, barely a croak out of either one. I did have one old decrepit one in a storage box and it works (Lo-tone), it has now been media blasted and painted and ready to be remounted, so as soon as I can get one of my Hi-tone horns working that minor aspect of the rehab will be complete. I looks like sometime around June 2017, 57 AGIN will be on the road again. At last!!!
Bob
57 AGIN
Excellent that you guys are down to the smaller things.
You're gonna love that bluetooth, I assume your Shelby has one and your daily drivers. We have na no cell phone law while driving in Amarillo, so the bluetooth is nice for that, and I am hard of hearing, so the bluetooth helps a ton to hear......much clearer and louder than the cell phone alone.
Just curious, do the Town & Country radio conversions come with a face plate?
hiball3985:
Everything I've read about this particular radio is that it is close enough to the original Town & Country radio in appearance that it will be a no points deduction for "Concours" judging. That may be sales hype, but as soon as I get the radio I will let you know. My old Kenwood 801 that I bought from Custom Autosound did have a factory style curved and lined face plate. I'll attach a photo of both my old one and the new one.
Bob
57 AGIN
Thanks Bob, I was just curious because the T & C radio uses a different face plate compared to the standard radio. I see from the PDF they provide their own face plate, thats good for guys that don't have one..
Guys:
Not too much left to do on the 57 until its back on the road. LOJACK was installed today and a visit to the upholstery shop showed some progress also. I'm having the upholstery mildly redone, as my wife said the other day it was kind of "Blah." While the car was in at Santini's being rehabilitated I had Steve Stanford (illustrator with lots and lots of serious experience in the Custom Car field) do some potential renderings for minor changes in the upholstery. The one I settled on uses a slightly darker shade of leather in shallow diamond tuft, highlighted with a touch of blue on the seat and side panels. The front seat should be ready to install by Friday and the car can then be driven to the upholster shop for the rest of the job. After that is done, it is off to Wheeler's to have the rear exhaust re-routed and both the rear and front bumpers installed. My hi-tone horn is being rebuilt (if it can be salvaged) and after it is installed the 58 or 57 hood can go on. The final pieces of the puzzle will be to check out the braking system and probably replace the tires do an alignment and adjust the headlights. It didn't get done in time for Knott's or the Edelbrock car shows as I was hoping, but it is close.
Bob
57 AGIN
The diamond pattern looks terrific ! looking forward to see the whole interior in the car.
djfordmanjack:
Thanks, I think it gives a little more character to the interior. I went by the upholstery shop today and found that they have almost completed the back seat base and the upper part of the back seat. Remember my back seat folds down to allow my 10' surfboard to be stuffed through the trunk over the back seat and onto the front seat and shut the trunk with everything inside the car. The front seat should be done this Monday and when attached to the floor I can drive the car over to the upholstery shop and let them finish with the upholstery upgrade.
Bob
57 AGIN
KYBlueOval:
In response to your question about exactly what are the rear view mirrors on my 57 from Project Builds Re: 1957 Ford Country Sedan mocha silver V8 4dr wagon (? Reply #368 on: May 03, 2017, 03:16:48), "Bob....your description of these mirrors sounds great........can you tell us exactly what mirrors you are using?
Thanks"
I looked through all my receipts (Yes, I 've tried to keep all the receipts on my 57 from the day I bought it back in 1998) and was unable to come up with any for my outside mirrors. I know I replaced them when the car was first painted by Santini sometime during 2011 and 2013. They were either from Dennis Carpenter or Concours and the following is a description from Carpenter's current On-line Catalog.
Rear View Mirror - 2 Hole
Outside - w/Script
1955 - 64
B5A-18402-A
Be the first to review this product
? Chrome Plated
? Round Head
? Fits Right or Left ? 2 Hole Mounting
? FoMoCo Script Base
? Include mounting gasket & Screws
The mirrors are not cheap as the current price is $74.95. The mirrors with the FoMoCo script cost more and may be built to a higher quality???
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob.......Thank you for taking the time to look into the mirror information. I'll check out the Carpenter catalog.
John
John, That is the mirror I have, without the logo. I am not satisfied with mine....
Thanks Lynn.
the folding seat back and board are extra cool! Is that a vintage board ?
djfordmanjack:
Not really. It is a Hap Jacobs 10' long surfboard I had Jacobs build me about 1995. It was hard to turn and I had much more maneuverable longboards from Stewart Surfboards, so after I got my 57 safely back on the road in 2004 I began using it as a display in my 57. I live about 6 miles from a nice gentle surf break in Seal Beach, CA adjascent to the South East entrance to Long Beach harbor. I also live about 10 miles from the more aggressive surf break at Huntington Beach, CA. I do have my original surfboard, bought used in 1959 and surfed until I bought my first modern longboard in 1985. That surfboard has been restored and hangs in a place of honor in the master bedroom.
Bob
57 AGIN
Cool stuff Bob!
I cruised my Del Rio between Long Beach and Huntington Beach when I was there in 2013. we were at Don the Beachcomber, the Dynotones were playing that night. you probably know these places as well :002: :003: now I'm hijacking your thread....haha
djfordmanjack:
Yes, I'm very familiar with all of those places. I've bought some wet suits from Coral Reef located on Beach Boulevard, which is located about 1 mile from Santini's where my car was repaired, probably when you were here. I've surfed, in my younger days, along the cliff's in Huntington Beach and by the Newport Beach Pier (not in one of your photos). You've traveled along Highway 101, better known as Pacific Coast Highway (or PCH) and although it is now full of many stop lights is still a very scenic and enjoyable drive. If you were to have driven PCH, North of Los Angeles Airport (LAX) it would have taken you through Venice and Santa Monica then up past Malibu and up to the Ventura area. If you stayed on 101 you could have then driven past the Hurst Castle, the red wood forest (Big Sur) and beyond San Francisco. Maybe someday when you and maybe Alan from New Zeeland are here in the States we could arrange some kind of Pacific Coast cruise.
Bob
57 AGIN
Well Guys:
Here is the next installment of the rehabilitation process on 57 AGIN. As I indicated last week the seats are in getting some minor changes, yet still using most of the existing leather, to keep the costs down. These shots are of Rene, owner of the upholstery shop and Rodrigo, his brother working on my front seat modifications.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here are the final 2 photos taken on Thursday. They show Rodrigo installing the leather over the foam backing protection using hog rings. Interesting process. Next week after installing the front seat back into the 57, I'll deliver the car to the upholstery shop for the carpet, side and trunk upholstery to be fitted in installed into the car.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
It has finally happened, the re-upholstered front seat is temporarily installed so the car can be driven over to the upholstery shop for the additional upgrade. First, Rick and I are going to give the car a test ride to ensure it is safe to drive then it will be at the upholstery shop for about a week (I hope it's only a week). Meanwhile at home I can tear out a work bench in the back of the garage to make room for the car when the bumpers are back on the car. We replaced the original wood garage door with a nice aluminum electric one while the car was at Santini's. In the process we lost about 6 to 8 inches of garage depth, due to the location of the door roller track. Needless to say an unanticipated consequence. LOL
Here are a few photos of the few front seat as well as a comparison photo. Both my wife and I like the look of the new upholstery better, the two tones of gray compliment the pewter paint and the touch of blue ties the internal and external colors together. IMO
Bob
57 AGIN
I really really liked the white, but honestly, this is a big improvement. Hard to believe. Nice decision, Bob.
Rich:
Actually, the color of the seats before and the lighter color of the seats now is the same. The great majority of the interior is using the existing light gray leather hides, the only changes are in the addition of the darker shade of gray leather and using a diamond pattern instead of the straight wide pleats and the addition of a bit of blue to the seat back about shoulder height. The entire carpet is being changed from a medium gray pile to a dark gray short loop (typical auto carpet). The pile showed dirt badly and was showing wear as well.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
Here is some more progress made on the 57's upholstery upgrade.
Bob
57 AGIN
Looks great Bob!
Marc:
Thanks, I'm sure hoping the slightly different look will make some of those Brand X people turn their heads.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
More progress on the Re-upholstery. Today I went to Glide Engineering (maker of the front seat) and obtained the new latch mechanism for folding the front seat forward & laying it back. During the accident an ice chest and suitcase were in the back seat and were catapulted forward into the back of the front seat and breaking the passenger side cable mechanism that controlled the leaning of the seat forward and laying the seat backward. The ends of the cable had a tendency to fail due to overuse (fatigue) or from shock damage. Back at the upholstery shop Rene's brother was working on the new Diamond pattern darker gray leather for the door panels. There are a few photos of the process used. So far I'm very pleased with the new look.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
I also worked on repairing the non-working Hi-Tone horn for the 57. First drilling out the rivets holding the horn mechanism together. When the internals of the horn were exposed, we found no debris in the operating mechanism of the horn, but there was plenty of rust coating the vibrating plate and inside of the cover plate. This rust was carefully removed in a bead blasting booth using walnut shells. The cover plate was no problem as it is thick steel. However, the vibrating plate is very thin metal and great care was taken not to overheat and warp that piece. A small problem with one of the contact points inside the horn operating mechanism was seen to be loose and was then soldered to ensure a good electrical connection. When the horn was reassembled, the tone adjusting screw was cleaned and adjusted until a nice Hi tone was reached and able to be maintained. That was a relatively easy fix that just worked out nicely (for a change).lol
Bob
57 AGIN
Thanks for posting that about rebuilding the horns. I had no idea they could be fixed that way, that is extremely cool!
That is good to know about the horns, one of mine quit after about 3 toots, i know its got some wasp nest pieces i couldnt get out.
Guys:
Here's the latest installment on the upgrade of Bob's 57 Agin's interior. I've attached a couple of options I have with the rear seat interior side panels on my 57. The first will show the rendering I got my ideas from (I think you've seen this before).
The first option is to do the rear panel exactly as it was drawn in the illustration. The second option is to have the dark gray insert on the rear side panel carry through with the diamond pattern. I'm going with option 2, as it looks more complete (it doesn't leave you hanging and wondering why the diamonds weren't continued. The last photo shows the front seat armrest location after it was moved upward as much as possible. In its original location the armrest struck the front seat base every time the door was shut, needless to say it required a lot of effort to shut the doors, this movement corrected that problem
Your thoughts?
Bob
57 AGIN
I'd say continue the pattern onto the rear panel. Otherwise it's exactly as you said, you're left wondering why it didn't continue through.
I agree
Like Yul Brenner once said to Charlton Heston, "So let it be written, so let it be done."
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
57 AGIN is back home once again. The upholstery is almost complete there's just one thing remaining, a hole cut in the trunk floor & a cover to allow access to the gas gauge sending unit. These photos have been taken before the car goes back to Santini's for the installation of the hood, final gap alignments and miscellaneous touch ups. The car is scheduled t go to Wheeler's Speed Shop the week of July 24th for finalizing the exhaust routing through the rear bumper and final bumper adjustments. I need the car back before Saturday July 29th, as that is the 50th Anniversary of my wife and I and I'm driving her to the party in the same model car we dated in over 50 years ago. My original 57 was only 7 years old when I bought it and Pam & I dated in it from 1964 until I traded it in on my first Mustang. My current 57 is a far better car than my original one, but I still miss it.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here are a couple of more photos, before it goes back out of my garage next Monday.
Bob
57 AGIN
Outstanding Bob. Very nice work. You hit a home run!
WOW Bob! Your car looks great. That interior is spectacular.
Jay
Thanks guys I appreciate the comments. I went to get some new tires & rims today and found that I'll have to wait about 60 days. I was going to get Cragar 390CStreet Pro rims with knock-offs and Nitto tires. However, I found out that Cragar is in the process of moving from California to Ohio (probably due to the CA Clean Air restrictions) and they won't be in production again for a couple of months. Guess I should have done this before the interior, bummer!!!
Bob
57 AGIN
Grand Slam!!
Good choice on the wheels, I am running them on my Ranchero I get a lot of compliments.
57chero:
Thanks, I'm not sure yet how much offset I can get with these rims. I currently have Cragar S/S 15", 7" wide front & 8" wide rear. However, this time I think I'll get 17" rims to give me more disc brake options. I've been assured that the Nitto Motivo 17" tires still have plenty of sidewall, because I really don't like the rubber band thin sidewall tires on classics or restomods. I've also been told that the Nitto Motivo tires have the same profile, width and diameter as the BFG's I currently run on my S/S rims. Any additional info out there would be much appreciated.
Bob
57 AGIN
Incredible Journey Bob., Incredible build and save.
Quote from: 57AGIN on 2017-07-08 15:32
57chero:
Thanks, I'm not sure yet how much offset I can get with these rims. I currently have Cragar S/S 15", 7" wide front & 8" wide rear. However, this time I think I'll get 17" rims to give me more disc brake options. I've been assured that the Nitto Motivo 17" tires still have plenty of sidewall, because I really don't like the rubber band thin sidewall tires on classics or restomods. I've also been told that the Nitto Motivo tires have the same profile, width and diameter as the BFG's I currently run on my S/S rims. Any additional info out there would be much appreciated.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob, just multiply the width of the tire (in millimeters) you plan to use by .000394. Take that number and multiply by the aspect ratio and that will give you the height of the side wall in inches.
For example 225/60R 17 inch tire .... 225 x .000394 x 60= 5.3"
Gell Guys:
57 AGIN is back at Santini's for final touch up work and installing the 58 hood. Almost all the touch ups are very minor buffing or real quick fixes, just 2 involve some real work (more about that as it is completed). It should be going into Wheeler's next week for the final exhaust re-routing and bumper adjusting. I have a deadline of July 28 to get the car back as I'm driving my wife of 50 years to the Anniversary party my son & daughters are throwing us. Who would have thought we'd date in a 57 Ford and 54 years later we'd drive to our 50th Wedding Anniversary in another one.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
I had to ask Rick to come over to Santini's today to help them sort out some hood adjustment & fitment issues. Rick came over a in relatively short order the alignment was nearly spot on, although the 58 hood has a bit of a problem on the driver side near the front. Seems like there may have been a minor upward bend in that area at some time in the past. Santini is going to try some hood bending/adjustment techniques tomorrow. I'm pretty happy with it as it is, because when I'm not driving the car it will be on display at a show with the hood up of course. However, we are still going to try to make it as close to perfect as possible.
Bob
57 AGIN
Welcome to the world of going nuts trying to get the front end pieces all aligned!! Quite a few of us have had similar issues. I spent more than a week trying to get things as close as posible on mine. I had almost identical issue as yours, but mine started with the doors not being as close as yours appear to be. My final attempt to eliminate what you have was done by leaving the nose piece, fender, and inner wheel well attached to one another, and shifting everything back (or forward, or up, etc) as an assembly. I remember using a small machinist' jack between the frame front crossmember and the core support to "jack" it back. You get to a point where it seems like it can't be done any better because if you move things to correct one area, it appears that it will throw something off (like the hood to cowl) in other areas. I'm sure Rick knows the hood has some unwanted up and down movement on the hinges as well as front to back. I'm talking about where the hood bolts on to the hinges. One issue I was having was resolved when DJ told me to check my hood hinge to make sure it was all the way against the hood (it wasn't).
In short, I would think your issues are probably not due to a previous accident with the components, but a matter of having to possibly lose some of the perfect alignment you have in other areas to get the misalignment evenly distributed all over to a point where it isn't all confined to one area. Hope that makes sense. Think in terms of a solid square peg (the hood) in a larger, adjustable, square hole (nose piece, fenders). If that "hole" is a trapazoid, the seams will never be even.
I hope they can get things aligned without having to remove the grille to get to the hinge cowl brackets.
edited a dozen times to clarify statements!!
Makes one appreciate all the work it takes to get perfect seams on these high $ trailer queens you see at the shows.
Rich:
So true. Today while I went over to install the 57 hood scoop chrome piece, Pete Santini was loosening the left side hood hinge springs to bring the front left hood down just a little. It made the front of the hood to the nose piece a little better. The hood alignment & gaps are nearly perfect, but they still haven't started working on the rest of the door & fender gaps. Those could very well through off the hood gaps. Pete took off the steering wheel and removed the ash tray to repair some damage overlooked earlier, they were being painted as I left for the day. It is getting pretty close to being finalized, tomorrow they will be doing some minor scratch buffing and fixing some very minor paint blemishes.
Bob
57 AGIN
Hey Bob,
Thanks for keeping everyone informed on all you did to resurrect your beautiful car. Nothing short of incredible. What else is cool that nobody else has mentioned is that your Golden Anniversary is fast approaching. Congratulations! Your wife must be a gem. I know mine is, putting up with my old car obsession for as long as she has. I'll bet most of us could say that our wives are amazing.
To think that you'll get the car done in time for the big event is awesome. Taking your wife to your anniversary party in the same type of car you dated in 53 years earlier is the coolest part of this whole thread, in my opinion. Enjoy the party. You're one lucky man!
Tom
Tom:
Thanks, having the wife not hassle me about doing things to the 57 is part of the give & take that has gone on throughout the years in our marriage. I still have to figure out how to do a Power Tour, because she just doesn't do car shows and it would be very boring for her.
Santini and Wheeler's shops are aware of my deadline and it is helping me get them to put the 57 up on their respective lists of To Be Done Before July 28, 2017. There will still be some other things they will need to do later, but getting it drivable & presentable before the 29th is the current goal. Pete was getting the 57's steering wheel set up for painting as I went their today.
Bob
57 AGIN
Sheetmetal fitting can be a bear. Always liked the '58 hood on the '57. The hood was the best looking part of the '58 Ford. I had one on my '57 Custom 300 back in 1967. Wish I still had that car.
Guys:
57 AGIN is home again, this time from Santini's where he took care of most of the minor touch ups. You can clearly see in the 2nd photo the adjustment required on the driver side of the hood near the front. Santini feels that using some wedges and applying some pressure on the raised section will be able to fix the "bulge" in the hood. The last photo really brings out the fingerprint design and metal flake in between the stainless trim pieces. There are 3 types of paint on 57 AGIN: House of Kolor pearlescent blue, Honda pewter metallic and House of Kolor blue medium metal flake. On Monday the car goes to Wheeler's to modify the exhaust system in the rear to route the tips through the modified rear bumper. He knows the deadline is Friday. Meanwhile, tomorrow I'll be detailing the engine compartment and tires & rims.
Bob
57 AGIN
57 AGIN's Back in the shop::
This time it's at Wheeler's getting the exhaust system mounted to the new rear bumper configuration. and some minor tweaking with the front bumper. Some months ago I osted the rear bumper with the mounting bolts removed and some exhaust cutouts in the bumper. However in order to run the exhaust system to the new location of the exhaust tips it is necessary to run the exhaust piping through the rear springs on the outside of the frame rails. I took a couple of photos of what is going on. The 3rd photo is of Wheeler's owner discussing things with his fabricator and a beautiful 39 (? something) in for some service parked directly behind my 57 which is up on the rack. Looking forward to getting the car back again.
Bob
57 AGIN
A tricky spot to get tailpipe clearance especially with bigger than OEM. Looks great!
gasman826:
Yes, I wasn't sure how they were going to accomplish the transition from inside the frame to outside the frame. I hope that when I'm driving, or possibly under higher than normal acceleration the springs don't make contact with the exhaust piping. (LOL)
Bob
57 AGIN
gasman826:
I checked today with Brian, owner of Wheeler's. He indicated that going through the springs shouldn't be any concern. Unless I planned on doing some jumps, like Starsky & Hutch used to do. I laughed and said I was only worried about dumping the clutch at 4,000 RPM and the car squatting enough to bang the spring onto the exhaust piping where it crossed through the springs.
Bob
57 AGIN
I'm sure they'll do a good job. OEM's have been snaking pipe through that area forever. Even with big tailpipes, there is more room than it looks.
guys:
Here are some photos of the final product on the exhaust and rear bumper on my 57. To me they really look awesome, but they will have to be dismounted in the future and taken in for powder coating to really finish off the system. I'll probably do that sometime this Winter.
Bob
57 AGIN
Here are a few more photos of the finished exhaust system. It looks like I'll also have to figure out a way to keep the emergency brake cables from ratteling against the exhaust system X-pipe. Any suggestions out there? I'm thinking maybe header wrap.
Bob
57 AGIN
Those exhausts look great!!!! Sure makes it easier doing it with the car up on a lift, I did mine with it on axle stands, that was NOT fun!
Maybe weld a 10" to 12" piece of small steel tubing to the X-Pipe at the point of cable interference. The inside diameter size would only be large enough for the swaged cable end to pass through. That would position the brake cable and also prevent it from slapping against the exhaust pipe causing the noise/rattle.
Quote from: Limey57 on 2017-07-29 06:20
Those exhausts look great!!!! Sure makes it easier doing it with the car up on a lift, I did mine with it on axle stands, that was NOT fun!
I agree, old bodies don't just "bounce up" off of a creeper, like we did fifty years ago.
Maybe a stand-off attached to your safety loop?
Guys:
Thank you for the suggestions. Rick and I will look into all of them.
Bob
57 AGIN