Hi Guys,
Not sure if I should ask this in this section or in the wanted section, anyway here goes. Does any one know of a company that makes the tubular control arms for our 57 Fords? The company that I had bookmarked is gone or has a new name. My search has shed me no light from the inner Webb. During my off show season starting in November, I'm going to put my original spindles back on with the Wilwood kit. My upper control arms are impacting my fenderwell headers and I want to replace them with the tubular upper arms to clear the headers while I got things apart. I will also be adding power steering to the car at the same time. I will be taking pic's during the project and will share the project with everyone when completed.
Many Thanks for any info you can pass along.
Rick
57Tudor
:unitedstates:
Hey Rick....first place I'd check is Fatman's
Rich,
Thanks for the tip. I contacted them and they do have them for our Fords. Althow, they wanted to know if my upper control arms were 9" or 9.5" measuring from the center of the cross bar to the center of the ball joint. After all these years of working on these cars, I have never heard or read that the upper control arms were different by a half inch! Has any one heard or know of this? Fatman Fabrication gets $899.00 for the set of 4 and $500.00 for the uppers. All include ball joints and bushings.
Rick
57Tudor
:unitedstates:
If it helps 57-64 Ford, small Edsels and 61-64 Mercs are the same arms.
Ron.
with no responses, it sounds like Fatman is the only one aware of differences in centerlines...strange. What did your's measure out? Did you order the parts?
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the info in regards to the control arms. I measured my upper control arms and mine are 9.5" I just ordered my Wilwood front brake kit, hose kit, and ARP wheel studs. Next month I will be ordering the tubular control arms from Fatman's and will ask them how they arrived at two different measurements. I'm also curious if the stock OEM sway-bar attaches to their lower control arm in the same manor as it attaches to the OEM arm.
Rick
57 Tudor
:unitedstates:
Hey 57tudoor, did you fabricate your headers our find them on line. What engine?
Jimburnaugh,
I had the headers made back in the 70's by a company called Marrcoo Headers. There are long gone now. I had a Fairlane 500, gutted, full roll cage, Fe 390, top loader 4 speed that I raced at OC International Raceway. I kept the headers for my car when I sold the fairlane. My car has a 68 FE 427 sideoiler block with the aluminum MR SK heads and tunnel wedge intake. I get asked that question a lot about my fenderwell headers. Would be nice if someone did make them.
Rick,
57Tudor
:unitedstates:
Rick, did you ever find out from Fatman's how they arrived at the two different control arm dimensions? Any progress on the conversion?
Rich,
No not yet. My plate has been full most of the month with my girls physical therapy, car show planning, show meetings and getting my car ready for last weekends Cruisin for a Cure show. plan to place the order next week after the bills get paid. I will let you know what I learn when I talk to them.
Rick,
57Tudor
:unitedstates:
Hi Guys,
I goy my control arms ordered from Fatman's yesterday. Will take about 2 weeks before they arrive. I asked the man I talked to "Phillip Snyder" very nice guy, about the difference in the upper control arm measurements. He said that some of the 57 Fords had a 9" distance from the center of the cross bar to the center of the ball joint and didn't know what model car it was, wagon, ranchero, retractable. My car has the original control arms and mine are 9.5" and he said I shouldn't have any alignment issues as long as they are original to the car. At some of the car shows that I attended this year, if I saw a 57 was at the show, I would ask the owner if I could measure his upper arm and why I wanted the measurement. Everyone I measured were at 9.5". When you guys that have been following this thread get a minute, measure your upper control arm and post your measurement here. Hopefully we can find out which model 57 has the shorter 9" upper control arm. When my order arrives I will take some pictures and post them for you to see.
Rick
57 Tudor
:unitedstates:
Quote from: 57tudor on 2015-11-06 19:44
Hi Guys,
I goy my control arms ordered from Fatman's yesterday. Will take about 2 weeks before they arrive. I asked the man I talked to "Phillip Snyder" very nice guy, about the difference in the upper control arm measurements. He said that some of the 57 Fords had a 9" distance from the center of the cross bar to the center of the ball joint and didn't know what model car it was, wagon, ranchero, retractable. My car has the original control arms and mine are 9.5" and he said I shouldn't have any alignment issues as long as they are original to the car. At some of the car shows that I attended this year, if I saw a 57 was at the show, I would ask the owner if I could measure his upper arm and why I wanted the measurement. Everyone I measured were at 9.5". When you guys that have been following this thread get a minute, measure your upper control arm and post your measurement here. Hopefully we can find out which model 57 has the shorter 9" upper control arm. When my order arrives I will take some pictures and post them for you to see.
Rick
57 Tudor
:unitedstates:
I just measured mine. '57 Ranchero 9 1/2 inches center to center
Mine are 9.5 also. I can't think of any 57 that would use a 9. If you move the top ball joint in .5 it will cause alignment problems in my opinion.
Parts book appears to support '57-'59 upper control arms are the same part #. '58s offered an optional air ride front suspension but used the same upper control arm. The '57 upper control arm part # was superseded to '63 (C3AZ-3082/3-A). The car and Thunderbird upper control arms are different. Maybe this has to do with the difference rumor.
I've interchanged '57-'59 upper and lower control arms (respectively) many times with no issues. Newer upper control arms may require compatible upper control arm bushings and shafts.
I bought a pair of '59 uppers and the stampings are different. The mounting shafts are different as well. '57s shafts are center drilled and tapped on the ends and the '59s shafts have sort of an acme thread on the outside of the shaft and they are not center drilled. The '59s have metal on metal bushings the '57s have the rubber type like the lowers. I would like to be able to dial in more negative camber and a 9" center to center would allow for that. I think that the '59 setup allows for more positive caster adjustment, but I am not sure of that yet.
Lynn, I'm always interested in alignment options. How much camber are you trying to achieve and why? I'm running mine at -2 camber and +2 caster.
Up to 2 degrees negative is what I am thinking. I don't think I can get there, my car has noticable positive camber now (maybe it is the Torino spindles on my car). Negative camber helps keep the the outside wheel/tire more upright in a hard turn improving cornering traction. Positive caster does that also, so I will try to get as much of that as I can.
OK, maybe it is the Torino spindles. I have also found with radial tires I'm using more toe in 1/8 to 5/16, maybe the side wall flex being different compared to a bias tire?
Hi Guys,
I also have the same issues with the Torino spindles, 72 Grand Torino Sport. So I'm going back with my original spindles, Wilwood brake kit, and tubular control arms. I can't wait to see how the alignment turns out when the time comes. As a note, I'm installing Borgeson Power Steering and they recommend the caster be set between 3.5 to 4 degrees positive to increase stability and road feel. We shall see when that time comes also.
Rick,
57Tudor.
:unitedstates:
I'm sure 3-4 degrees will be fine with power steering. I keep mine at 2, just a manual 58 box.
Mine seems stable and tracks great up to 90 MPH, I haven't had an opportunity to push it higher.
Hi Guys,
My order from Fatman's came in yesterday and as promised I have posted some pic's of the kit. Looks great. First thing is to clean them and get them painted. The lower arms have a mounting bracket on them for the 60-64 style sway bar and that this sway bar attaches to the under side of the chassis. I like this idea a lot better then the aftermarket kits that stick out like a sore thumb and the only way to kinda hide them is to paint them black. As I begin this phase of my upgrades during my off season form the shows, I will post pic's of my progress.
Happy Holidays
Rick,
:unitedstates:
Rick, look at my latest post in "Aftermarket sway bars"... I have been trying to get the kind you are talking about to fit, no luck. Perhaps your control arms ( they are awesome BTW) will help.I might be able to help you out with that issue.
lalessi1,
Funny thing, right after I posted my update I ran across your thread and read completely through it. I plan to do my home work before pulling the trigger on the sway bar. I need to know what the measurement is from end to end measuring from the center of each round hole at the end of the bar. I will be measuring my mounts after I get the lower arms in and see what the difference is. I plan to contact Farman Fabrications as well
Thanks,
Rick.
:unitedstates:
When you get to that point, let me know and I will measure what I have. I may play with what I have a little more since I have a "bare" frame now. There are other pics available, I have a bunch, some are on the forum in another thread, some not.
I looked a little closer at my Quickor swaybar, I put it back on the car and moved it forward 1 1/4". It clears the frame but it hits on the control arm a little. Your control arms offer a HUGE amount of clearance where the interference is....
Lynn,
Hope you received my email with pic's sent to you the other day. Just got a note from Fatman's, they do not offer a sway bar kit, they only offer generic instructions on how to install the thing on a mustang II. Summit Racing has a sway bar kit to fit the 60-64 Fords, 1" diameter with all the parts. I believe it was the Quickor web site that I was on the other day and they show two different part numbers for these sway bars, one for the Galaxies and one for the Fairlane. I'm wondering if there is any difference in the two cars!
Rick,
:unitedstates:
Hi Guys,
For those following this project on mine, here are some pic's of its progress.
Rick,
:unitedstates:
Rick,
I didn't see the email, I may have accidentally deleted it. Glen at Quickor told me the 59 frame is narrower than the later frames. I am almost positive the Quickor bar I have will work with the Fatman lower spindles. The Summit bars are probably made by a company called ADDCO. They make a bar for '57s that fits like the original bar. They don't make a bar for a '59. I have other pictures I can send you on the Quickor bar. If you want to try to use it we can work something out.
Lynn,
I resent the mail. I forgot to mention, I measured the sway bar mounts on the control arms with everything in the unloaded position. Center to center of the holes is 45"
Rick,
:unitedstates:
Quote from: 57tudor on 2015-12-07 19:54
Lynn,
I resent the mail. I forgot to mention, I measured the sway bar mounts on the control arms with everything in the unloaded position. Center to center of the holes is 45"
Rick,
:unitedstates:
Rick,
I still didnt get an email or a PM. I measured the stock '59 and the Quickor bar. They are both 45 1/2" ish. Check my profile my email is correctly listed.
Lynn.
I resent the email through the club. I was unable to attach the pics to the message sent. The pics are the same as posted above.
Rick.
Hi Guys,
Just wanted to update you on my project. At this point I have finished the power steering pump bracket, made my shims, assembled the pump and installed the pulley. Night before last I got that assembly on the engine. I'm moving the radiator and shroud forward for some additional clearance. I remember the thread here about slotting the core support and moving the radiator forward, couldn't fine the thread but I went ahead and made the modification and it works well. I have one more idler pulley to install and the belt as soon as they arrive from Summit racing so I will post a pic when that is completed. Can't wait to get the rest of the system installed but Christmas is closing fast and I have til April to complete. I'm doing my homework in regard to the sway-bar so that is yet to come.
Marry Christmas to all
Rick.
:unitedstates:
I just added another Pic with the pump installation completed, radiator and fan shroud back in.
Over the top, as usual, Rick. Thanks for the updates, and keep them coming!! PS...ask Bob to update us on his...it's been a while. How is it you have until April, btw...don't you SoCal guys show year round?
Edited to eliminate the hijack..got the info, thanks Rick.
Just curious, did you check the weight savings between the factory control arms vs the tubular arms?
Hi Guys,
Rich, I was with Bob Lee the other day and mentioned that the forum members were wondering how the car was coming along and I see that he did the update. Its getting close but there is still a lot to do before he has it back on the road.
Our off season is from November to April as both Bob and I do a ton of shows and need the brake, although having said that, Bob will hit a Christmas show or two and in February, Hillco Fasteners has a super bowl Sunday car show that we go to.
57meteor, I didn't weigh the old control arms or the new ones, but I can tell you that I was surprised how light the new arms were compared to the old ones. Now you got me wondering with the weight difference is....Hummmm.
Rick,
:unitedstates:
Hi Guys,
The project is done. Here is the steering column build. After shortening the column tube and obtained the bearing for the cut end, I put the bearing in the freezer over night, heated the cut end over my stove and dropped the bearing in the tube. After all had cooled and the bearing was checked and lubed, then came the paint. After I got the Borgson P/S unit mounted on the chassis, I was able to make the final cut to the 58 shaft I got from Steve Pearce. Welded and pined the adapter to the shaft, made and installed a sleeve on the shaft to support the column, and completed the assembly and installation of the column. The rubber floor seal was replaced while I had things apart, and I made my own boot from the same interior fabric to cover the end of the column. All I need to do yet is to install my horn button to the steering wheel. I have attached the steering column detentions for this project.
Page 1 for the pic,s
Rick
57 Tudor
:unitedstates:
Page 2 for the pic's
Column installed with my new column to dash clamp..
Here is the Power Steering Cooler installed.
The next 2 pic's are of the Borgson steering unit. The pitman arm is my original arm and no longer comes in their kit. You can see the shaft adapter installed as well. I made all my pressure and return lines as this is a one off project and the hose kit offered by Borgson was not doable.
Hi Guys,
Last night I finished up the sway bar installation. I went with the Coucours front kit. I made some changes with my installation. The parts kit comes with 2 half inch tall spacers that separate the bushings where the arm and lower control arm come together. In my case, having the tubular control arms, the mounting bracket on my lower control arm is thicker then the hole used in the stock control arms. So I swapped them out for a pair if 1/4" spacers that I had and that worked well. Next I raised the two brackets that mount to the frame 5/8" and installed them between the two brackets that hold the bumper in place. What this did by doing this is it moved the large bushings inward 1/4" as I found both bushings we right at the turning point of the sway bar and was distorting the edge of the bushings when the L brackets as they call them were installed to the outside of the bumper brackets as noted in the instructions. This worked well as the brackets at the bumper are slotted for adjustment. The last thing I did was to swap out all the nuts and bolts to all stainless. I hate rust and was well worth the $18.00 bucks spent.
Rick
57 Tudor
:unitedstates:
Pg.1 for the pic's
Pg.2 for the pic's
As usual, Rick...better than well done. Thanks for taking the time to post the info. Interesting you got the sway bar brackets in between the bumper brackets.
Hi Guys,
Got the horn button together the other day. I had rewired the horn relay lead that at one time went through the center of the steering shaft. I ran it up to the point where the turn signal harness ends at the bullet connectors under the dash and install a bullet connector at that point, then ran it through the turn signal harness and then around where the switch is housed and out where the shifter pivot hole is. I install a button on the steering wheel and installed some curly wire from the steering wheel to the back of the switch housing and all is done and works bitchen. The second to last this I did yesterday was get the alignment done. I had the caster and camber spot on and they only had to set the toe. Needless to say it drives bitchen. All thow, I find myself wanting to drive it like I did when it had manual steering with the small wheel and must retrain myself to get used to the new power steering. Last thing to do is put the hood back on. Had a guy get out of his car at a stop light when I was coming home from the alignment shop and looked at the engine. Gave me the thumbs up.
Rick.
57 Tudor
:unitedstates: