I am going to need a winter project to keep me busy, so I am thinking about converting my rear brakes to disc. One company I contacted said their kit will not work with 14 inch wheels that my car is running. Has anyone done a rear conversion using 14 inch wheels, or if not, can someone recommend what particular 15 inch wheel should I be using if I have to go the 15 inch route? Going to 15 inch would mean buying all new rims and tires, as I would not want to haul around two spare tires in the trunk. Thanks in advance.
I am waiting for an Alburquerqe guy to call me back on pricing for alot of rear end mods. One of them is a disc brake conversion that he designed using a Gm style caliper. Available with and without parking brake, but our e-cables will require lengthening to work. The parking brake is within the caliper, and is not the mini-drum type. I asked to make sure there would be no fitment problems within my new 15" wheels, and he replied that he designed the setup to fit inside 14" rims.
I'd call and get some specifics....and buy them. You can be my guinea pig!!
Only down side(for me) is they are not bolt on, and the bracket has to be welded on after the rear end is in the car, so your welding has to be good enough to weld 1/4 plate to 5/16.
this is his craigslist ad that Sandiaman posted the link to:
http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/pts/5143567314.html
his name is Tom, 502 269 4474
Thanks Rich. I will give him a call one of these days. You sure find out ,and know a lot about these 57's. Your build is beautiful.
Just a note. One seller tells me that their product requires 15 inch steel wheels, but you can use a 14 inch aluminum mag wheel for disc brakes with their kit.
For anyone that needs this information, I am running front disc brakes with 14 inch wheels. The calipers are 90"s GM S-10 2 wheel drive truck, the rotors are 68 Mustang, and the hoses are from some sort of Cadillac. Can't remember which model, but I could look it up. The wheels are brand new 14x7 that fit the 1980 Ford Granada. My 205/75/14 tires fit the rims nicely.This set up works out real well. There is a spacer that has to be used on the spindle in order to use the Mustang rotors.
Rich, I called Tom concerning the rear disc brake conversion, and he said his brackets are only the weld on type for all applications. I declined his kit, and decided to buy the bolt on kit with the emergency brakes built into the calipers. Also ordered two new 15x7 wheels to change over. What size 15 inch tires are most running with the rear disc set up? A tire guy told me today that a close match to my 14's on the front would be the 205/70/15's. I am running 205/75/14's on the front with disc brakes. Thanks. Don
Which bolt on kit are you getting? Pricing?
I didn't mind so much the weld-on bracket, if they didn't have to be welded on with the rear end installed. I would have considered it should I end up having him do the rest of the work if he could have installed them.
Ordered on E-Bay from Tomsclassic. The kit is for the small bearing rear end. Large bearing rear takes a different kit. Parking brake cables included with the rest of the kit. Cost me $299.00 for the kit and another $50.00 for the shipping. His kit was the best price I found. Other kits had the same items and any where from $50.00-$100.00 more. I have my car all ready to install the kit, and I got an email this morning that the wheels will be here tomorrow via UPS from Summit That will give me plenty of time to paint them before the kit gets here next week. What size 15" tires are you running on the back Rich?
235-70/15's
Here's the link to a neat conversion thingy if you want to play with tire sizes:
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireMath.do
Thanks Rich. That tire conversion thingy is really neat.
I thought it was...it helped me figure out what the tire designations actually meant. Note also the speedometer reference if you want to change tire sizes.
Rear disc brake kit came today via Fedex. The new rear calipers come from 79-85 Caddie Eldorado and the rotors are from the 79-81 Trans Am. According to the instructions, it doesn't look too bad of a job to install. They say if your axle flange that your wheel bolts to is over 6 1/8" in diameter, it will have to be machined down to at least 6 1/8". Mine looks to be right at 6". I did notice one thing I feel they forgot, in that when the rotor is installed over the wheel studs, there is not enough length to get a full nut when tightening the wheel down. That's a simple fix by installing longer studs in the axle flange.
Let us know what you think about the kit when you get 'er done! I checked their ebay store and couldn't find the kit...closest thing was for a Bronco small bearing with a 5 @ 5 1/2 lug pattern. Got a part number?
Rich, login on to EBay and do a search at the top for Ford 8" or 9" small bearing rear disk brake conversion 350441305165. Select EBay motors at the right top where you would select the category. You should be able to get it with no problem.
I'll try it, thanks.
Finished up the driver's side of the brake conversion today.The kit is a real slick deal. Try to get a couple of pics. Haven't posted any in a long time. The passenger side bracket is showing up in one of the pics as well. Ordered all new wheel studs to replace the shorter ones.
This does look pretty slick. I wasn't going to bother with rear discs, but this makes it look super easy, and pretty much as affordable as buying all new drum brake parts as well. Let us know how the emergency brake cables line up. Thanks for posting this.
They only provide a short cable and cable housing assy for the parking brake. You have to remove the spring an the caliper parking brake lever assy, thread the cable through the spring and place it in the lever groove. The spring goes in and out fairly easy. Take note of the spring tang position when you take it off, or you will have to refer back to the other caliper for reference. What I did was take the parking brake cables out of my old backing plates, and then cut the ends of each cable and pull them out of the cable housing. You then have one good end with the ball thingy to connect to the new cable. They provide 2 connectors with the kit. I plan on running the cables up to the equalizer and then threading it through and then using small cable clamps to fasten the ends. You will have to determine on how long you want to double it back at the equalizer if you go that route. I really have no means to put a round thingy on the cable end. Any one that knows how to put a new end on a brake cable, you can teach me how. When you put the cable end into the caliper lever assy, the small silver clip is removed and then re-clipped on the spring side of the bracket. Also take note the calipers have the wind back type pistons. I had to wind the passenger side one back a half turn to get the caliper and pads to fit over the rotor.
somehow just saw your last few posts on this...looks good. Have you got it done?
When I did the emergency brake cables for my model A pickup, I had new ends put on them, as I had to shorten the new cables slightly to make them work. Took them to a heavy truck shop, where they make up that kind of stuff. The first go at it, the guy used a die and a hammer to swedge the ends on the cable.
I took them home, and installed them, activated the emergency brake, and promptly pulled both ends off the cables.
Went back, and they used their hydraulic press to do it. Hydraulic shops have the special hydraulic presses to put ends on hoses, and this particular shop had dies for that machine to press ends on the cables. He was just too lazy the first time to change out the dies, as it takes several minutes to do it.
Just my take on how to put the round thingy on the end of the cable.
Thanks for the tip on the cable ends jvo. For now I will leave my cables clamped. I have the conversion just about finished. I couldn't get all the air out the system when bleeding the calipers. After a couple of calls to other vendors that sell the same kit, it was explained that the rear caliper pins have to be removed, and that the caliper has to be moved in the straight up and down position in order to get the trapped air out. I also watched a video of the same procedure to get all the air out of that particular caliper. In all the years I have worked on car brakes, I have never seen any thing like that, and I did customer work for 30 years or better. Also the parking brakes have to be adjusted equally when doing the cables. The parking brake mechanism on the caliper has to be adjusted close to the rotor by removing the arm on the caliper and turning the shaft nut until it is tight. The instructions stated to do that by manually moving the arm, but another vendor said to do it properly , you have to remove the arm and turn the nut. If any one gets this kit , I will gladly give some help if needed.
Just to clarify one point on my previous post, you have to keep the caliper on the rotor in the vertical position. Later on, I will post another issue concerning what wheels that can be used with this conversion. I have to double check things first.
Great info...I'll probably be using it soon. Any idea how much the disc conversion adds to the overall length, if any?.....previous input from some members say it adds about 1/4" per side. Also, while it's fresh in your mind, I will probably need your source for the lug studs.
I'm trying to figure out if I really need my differential case narrowed, so what you find will help with that decision.
I purchased my new lug studs on EBay. Dorman# 610-080. They worked out to be a tad longer than I figured on, but they work. The stud shoulder is 0.3125 and the stud under head measurement to the end of threads is 1.9375. The shoulder sticks out about a 1/4 inch before the wheel is installed, and once the wheel is on, no shoulder is showing. I would recommend a tad shorter stud, as there is thread left after the nut is tightened. I bought 24 chrome lug nuts with what they call a buldge. They are about as short as the original nuts, but have a space between the thread and where the nut starts on the stud. That ensures a tight fit on my factory style Vintique steel wheels. The head is 3/4 instead of the original 13/16. As far as the width increase, I would estimate about the same as others have stated. Have nothing to compare to at this time. By the way I removed the nuts on the rear shocks and dropped the axle down, and there is plenty of room to get the rear wheels on and up in. I ordered a pair of 55 Ford shocks and they will be here Friday.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-09-20 11:51
Great info...I'll probably be using it soon. Any idea how much the disc conversion adds to the overall length, if any?.....previous input from some members say it adds about 1/4" per side. Also, while it's fresh in your mind, I will probably need your source for the lug studs.
I'm trying to figure out if I really need my differential case narrowed, so what you find will help with that decision.
Rich, I think it would have to increase the total length distance. The disc hats have to be thicker than the thickness of the drums at the axle flange. I would guess at least 1/8" "per side", you 1/4" sounds correct.
Here are Dorman wheel lug studs specs
www.dormanproducts.com/Pages/hardware/WheelLugStudAttributes.pdf
Got the chart saved, thanks.
Any followup on the install, Cluster?? I've got to make a decision on a kit pretty soon so I can tell the shop modifying my differential what I need.
Have the conversion all finished up and wanted to drive it more before I gave my comments. I only took it out once or twice since I finished it up and am pretty well pleased with the results. The only thing I find is you have to put a real hard push on the pedal to lock them up,as our new cars will stop on a dime. Normal brake is really good in my opinion. Rich, if you get this kit, plan on spending most of the time on the parking brake cables and the parking brake mechanisms on the calipers. I also could not get all the air out until I called another outfit that sells the same kit. You have to take the pins out of the calipers and have the caliper straight up and down but still on the rotor to get the air all out. Also, The instructions tell you to manually move the parking brake lever on the caliper to get it snug on the rotor. The video shows to pull the parking brake arm off the caliper and then turn the nut on the shaft until it is tight. The shaft and nut protrudes outward when if is being tightened. The video was right, as I could not get it snug doing it manually. Also, you can't just pull the parking brake on and expect it to stop or lock. Took me a bit to figure out that you have to first apply the service brake and then pull out on the hand brake. It really locks them up when it's done that way. I can't provide a link to the video, but I will let you know where to find in a following post.
The video on doing the parking brake adjustment and air bleed can be found by doing a search for " The Right Stuff Detailing". Click on the Tech Center and then click on Tech video's.
Sorry, I meant to post the phone number as well for Right Stuff in case anyone needs it. 1-800-405-2000.
Great info......funny, this was the first time you mentioned the "right Stuff" name. That was the kit I was going to order from Jegs, not realizing it was the same. I guess you found better pricing on Ebay, so I'll check with that source you mentioned earlier in the thread. Thanks again. It'll probably be at least a month or so before I can order it....deciding to go with the rear end mods is going to make $ tight for a while.
Yes Rich, I have found drastic price differences for the same exact parts quite a few times. I know as well that the bucks get really tight at times too. Glad I don't have much more to do. Probably will rebuild the front suspension this winter when the snow has the ground covered here in Pennsylvania. Also probably will put a pair of air shocks on the rear, as I found a set of new Monroe's that have just about the same extended and compressed length that the 55 Ford shocks have. By the way, I found out that a 14 inch steel wheel will not work with this kit and if you want to someday eliminate the calipers with the parking brake, I also found out that the 1982 Chevy Camero calipers will work.
Cluster...just to verify what I think I'm reading on the Right Stuff installation sheets I downloaded.....the axel retainer plate that replaces the stock retainer plate is attached after the axel is in the car and, because of it's open horseshoe design, is not assembled prior to the bearing being pressed on the the axel...correct?
If that is the case, why does the axel need to be removed?
Rich, Don't forget that the axle has to be removed in order to remove the backing plate. The spacer that comes with the kit I bought does not have the horseshoe design spacer that takes the place of the backing plate. It is a closed end deal and bolts on when you reinstall the axle. The kit also states that some machining might have to be done to cut down the circumference of some axle flanges. I lucked out as mine is around 6 inches give or take an eighth. I believe the kit fits more than one year Ford car, so that is probably where that comes into play. My brackets bolted right up with no issues. As I said before the parking brake deal takes the most time. Also,I bought new gaskets for where the spacer bolts to the axle housing.
Rich, as I re read your post, I think you were concerned with the the axle retainer and not the spacer. Guess I read it too fast. The stock axle retainer attached to the axle shaft does not get removed. I viewed the video that you watched and they removed the axle retainer. This kit allows for keeping your retainer. Just pull the axle, pull the backing plate, install the spacer plus new gasket and throw the axle back in.
I didn't watch the video, just read their printed instructions. First off, is the kit that Tom's classic's sells in fact a Right stuff kit? Tom's doesn't show a manufacturer's name or pn. I'll go back and find the video you posted a link to and watch it. I had fogotten about that.
What I'm trying to figure out at this point is if I need to order the kit before the shop that is going to modify my differential can finish it up. In other words, are there parts in the kit that have to be installed before the bearings for the axel are pressed on?
No Rich, there are no parts that have to be installed. As far as being a right Stuff kit, it is not. It looks identical except by what I see in the pictures, the housing spacer is open ended instead of closed like in my kit. They all use the same calipers according to the people at Right Stuff.The instructions are good except for the bleeding and parking brake adjustment, and the video info I posted takes care of that.
Rich, I assume you axle is the small bearing? The large bearing might be a different story.
It's small bearing now, but I'm having it changed to the big bearing. I was wondering if there was a difference in how the kits install. The instructios I downloaded talked about a spacer behind the 1st bracket, but they don't show it in their exploded components-included view. Tom's shows what I assume is the 1/8 spacer, but it's not u-shaped like the bracket, so I guess it would have to be put on before the bearing is installed on the axel. Once again..that's my main question at this point...if I need to have that kit on hand when the shop assembles the differential.
That I can't tell you. My kit has the 4 hole spacer that goes on the end of the housing and then the primary bracket also fits up against the spacer. Then the axle is slid in with putting the axle flange over the same 4 bolts. I believe the video I watched a couple weeks ago was a large bearing deal where the existing axle flange had to be cut off with using the kit. Wouldn't hurt to call Right Stuff at the number I posted and get their take on what you plan to do with changing to the large bearing. Good luck.
Quote from: clusterbuster on 2015-09-29 19:51
That I can't tell you. My kit has the 4 hole spacer that goes on the end of the housing and then the primary bracket also fits up against the spacer. Then the axle is slid in with putting the axle flange over the same 4 bolts. I believe the video I watched a couple weeks ago was a large bearing deal where the existing axle flange had to be cut off with using the kit. Wouldn't hurt to call Right Stuff at the number I posted and get their take on what you plan to do with changing to the large bearing. Good luck.
Clusterbuster.........can you please tell me, is the parking/emergency brake set up in this kit, the ratcheting G.M style ?
Thanks
John
I have not been able to find the video you are talking about. All I could find was a short one on bleeding and adjusting the e-cable.
Blue Oval, the calipers are from the 80's Eldorado, Riveria, and Toranado if that helps.
Rich, I am sorry but I can't remember where I got that video. It was before I bought my kit and I was hunting information. I will hunt for it, and if I find it, I will let you know.
Rich, I didn't find the video but I found an article with pictures and instructions where they are eliminating the axle retainer on the Ford 9" rear brake conversion. Do a search for the info below.
chevy classics 55-57 9" ford rear end disc brake conversion.
Thanks..if you find it let me know, I'd like to see it before I install...but that's a ways down the road. I did find another pic (Jegs) of the included parts that showed the spacer, and it is also horseshoe shaped, so I'm 99% sure at this time I can have the shop procced/finish up the mod to the differential, and nothing will have to be taken apart to add the disc brake kit. Now I just have to get it over to him.
Rich, I called Jeggs who supplies the Right Stuff ZDCDS05 Conversion kit on EBay. They in turn called the Right Stuff company and found that if you are replacing from a drum brake application to their kit, the bearing retainer has to be cut off and replaced with the supplied retainer. They said you don't have to remove the bearing to cut it off or install the new retainer. Hope this helps.
Yeah...thanks. Confirms what I thought. LOL...where to send the money....I was holding the check for my insurance until I found out whether or not I was going to have to get the disc brake kit quickly. I mailed the check to Grundy this afternoon. Must be nice to have deep pockets.
Updating the rear brake conversion. the jury had not come back with a unanimous decision. If I had it to do over again, I would never had purchased the kit with the parking brakes built into the calipers. Not only was the park brake not releasing at times, but you have to use it often to keep the rear brakes adjusted. I jerked the calipers off and put a set of GM non park brake calipers on, and got rid of all the cable crap. I will be installing an electric brake lock for the rear and moving my hydraulic brake light switch to operate on the front plumbing. Easier for me for what I have to contend with.
I read this a few days ago Cluster, and it's been on my mind since. Trying to figure out what I need to do, but I can't get into it until I get home. The computer here at the relative's is a major pain. Thanks a ton for alerting me/us to the problem.
I'd like to know what "electric e- brake" system you are looking at.
So, what's your best guess at this point....is the E-brake problem due to a poor quality caliper supplied with the kit (is it made in China as someone on the Hamb recently told me?), or would the problem exist even with a better quality caliper of the built-in e brake type?
I may have boxed myself into a corner.... I told the shop that is modifying my rear end to go with the old style big bearing as someone said the new style was hard to find seals for and more prone to leaking. Talking with the guys at Socal, their opinion was the opposite, and that far more disc brake kits will only fit the new style big brake.
Rich it is hard to say about the caliper quality. It very well could be. The routing of my E brake cables could have contributed some, as the dual exhaust pipes were in the way for a straight shot to the equalizer. I routed up over the top of the frame and when I would jack it up at the frame the cables would lock the calipers. They would work well and then sometimes not release all the way. I would recommend not buying with the E brake in the caliper as the parking brake has to be used frequently to adjust the calipers. It states that in the instructions. Also it only works when you apply the service brake first and then pull out on the hand brake. As far as the electric brake lock, there are several on Ebay and I will let you know which one I bought and one of them to stay away from. What you do is plumb the electric solenoid into either your rear or front brake lines under the hood near the master cylinder. If you have the in line brake light switch, you have to put the solenoid ahead of the brake light switch so it doesn't keep the brake lights activated when locking the brakes. As far as big bearing vs small bearing they sell many kits for either small or big bearing axles. One thing I found when I pulled the original backing plates is that my oil leak was coming between the backing plate and the end of the housing where they mate together. Before I put the spacer on the end of the housing, I installed new gaskets, and have driven probably 75 miles and no leaks. Even though some oil may get past the seal, the gasket is keeping it in check so far. I just remember ed the name of the solenoid company I purchased the first brake lock from. The name had Horsepower in it. The fittings incorporated in the solenoid were so small and crappy that I snapped one off trying to tighten. They were however nice enough to refund my money. It cost $49 + shippingof around $10. No switch with it though. The one I just ordered has the switch and all that is needed to install. Looks like a much better unit. Same price.
Line lock, brake lock roll control electric kit, Hill Holder
( 260806150230 )
This is the one I have coming from a company on EBay. I emailed them and they said they buy them and resell them cheap and can't give any details other than what is in the instructions. You will find it. They have sold over 2000 of them.
That kit looks exactly the Hurst Line Lock kit I just installed...except for the Hurst logo. Even the installation accessories are the same. A couple of cautions:
1) a line lock or roll control is designed for intermittent use. The instructions recommend less than 20-30 seconds or it will get hot and cause damage/failure.
2) a electronic or manual line lock works great initially. But not for a long term parking brake. A hydraulic lock works great at first. As the fluid, linings and other brake parts cool, the brakes will release and the vehicle rolls away. I had a mechanical line lock valve in the cab of a four wheel drive pickup. It locked all 4 wheels...worked great for winching and stuff. One day, I parked on a major hill and walked away. About 30 minutes later, the truck rolled away. Fortunately, someone caught it before it rolled off a cliff!!
Make the effort and build a mechanical parking/emergency brake.
I installed and used a manual hydraulic brake lock on one of my wreckers for years. Locked the brakes on many recovery jobs with never a bit of trouble. It don't make any sense to build an electronic lock that holds only 20 or thirty seconds. I will look into that though.
Isn't a line lock's intended use for dragracing? I remember asking 57Agin what the LineLoc was that he installed, and that was his explanation, although more detailed. In that usage, 20-30 seconds is probably all you need.
I'm not sure what to do about the disc brake kit. I'm thinking the cable not having a straight shot, but strung over the frame rail may a lot to do with the non-release issue.
Guess you are right Gasman. I didn't have a clue that that was the case with those things. I will return it if allowed and pipe in a manual lock which will work fine for what I need.
That's right Rich they are used for drag racing, installing on front wheels. I just did not know that the things are designed to hold for such a short period of time.
My 2015 Ford Fusion has an electronic brake lock which holds forever, so to speak, so that is what I assumed this unit I ordered did as well. Will send it back and put a manual hydraulic lock on. Didn't want to go though the trouble of piping inside the car, but I will.