OK, so, I'm still kicking around the rear brakes thing while my rear is out for mods/rebuilding/narrowing. I've been looking at various disc brake kits with e-brakes...Caddy style calipers like Clusterbuster had trouble with, Explorer style new kits ala Currie and Wildwood(too pricy for me), and the actual Explorer units I can pick up at my local u-pull it for less than 100. If I go with the salvage yard stuff, I'll actually use not a whole lot more than the backing plate/caliper mounts. I'll use new calipers and new rotors, hoses, e-brake pads and parts, ect...so the final tally on that won't be all that much cheaper than a new kit.
I've mentioned before, one of the main reasons for the disc conversions was the added clearance for tire changes, but a few things going on with my car got me to considering another route. First, I had a bit over 1/2" fender clearance with the chosen new wheel/tire, and I had no difficulty installing/removing the tire over the old drum brakes. Secondly, my dif. case is being narrowed 3/4 per side, and the new 6 leaf springs I bought for it will give me an extra 1" drop down over the oem 4 leaf springs. So....it's all adding up to the disc conversion probably isn't going to make any significant improvements to tire changes.
Add to that, a discusion with Dave at Drop n stop pointed out that a number of recent articles on disc/disc vs disc/drums by a number of the performance magazines actually resulted in superior stopping on the disc/drum cars. So maybe not much gained, if anything, changing to rear discs vs. a performance drum system....and that's what I'm looking at now. Since my differential case is being changed to big bearings (old style), and (I assume) my old case was small bearing (I never checked), I can't just rebuild my old brakes. I'm probably going to be looking into a bolt-on drum system. Any suggestions??
Rich as you well know I have long held that disc/drum systems work well when properly maintained. This is true on a street car that will see limited hipo use. Normal driving stopping is/will be limited by conditions you have no control over - road/weather/idiots.
Look for 57, 58, 59 Retractable/Wagon/Ranchero backing plates, check with Currie or others for the big bearing plates. Later model wagons up through 66 - 67 have larger brakes and big bearing 9"ers, hipo stuff through 70 had big brakes and bearing 9"ers and were all self adjusting after 58. My 60 Ranchwagon has 3" brakes all around and I am in a serious crisis over even switching to front disc with it. Every piece of that system is still supported at NAPA, but I digress, Ford ran the same "parts" in many models over many years.
BTW, I raced SCCA B sedan with my Boss 302 with manual disc/drum brakes upgraded to full metalic pads and shoes with no issues and was consitant top of the class finisher in every event. Might have continued with that had it not been for the Navy!
Sounds like I need to watch Ebay. Thanks for all that info, Bill. You say "still supported"... drums readily available as well? What about f series truck systems?
Currie, Moser and others have drum brake kits (and Torino style disc kits) for 9" Ford rear axles. I am looking at changing to a 31 spline big bearing axle right now. I have an early big bearing axle housing from an Edsel and my gear guy has a nodular carrier. Thinking Detroit Locker.... early thinking stages though. Rich, I googled 9" Ford Rear ends accessories...
on my wagon i found that the rear brakes from a 68 ford ltd bolted right on[big bearing]
I may give Owens Salvage a call tommorrow to see what he's got.
Yes drums. You shouldn't really need to buy new drums. They are pretty tough and can be turned many times before needing replacement. If you look at the edge of the drum from behind you should notice a small tapper from the back edge going down to the shoe surface. If that taper is there the drum is good providing there is no other damage and it can be turned. If the tapper is gone, new drum time.
I seem to recall having drums turned in the past that .060 was the max. There was one old parts store that allowed me to turn them a little more but he also told me it was illegal. I don't know if that is a Calif or national law..
Probably under the same jurisdiction as the matress tag removal law.
:003: wouldn't surprise me a bit :005:
Anybody know if the f series truck rear brakes/differential housing ends were essentially the same as passenger cars? Owens salvage is going to check in the morning but he told me if he had anything it would be off a truck. ???
Most machine/brake shops will not turn drums past .090 oversize or if the drum is cast with a maximum oversize they will not go over the max oversize because of liability/safety issues. A drum that is machined beyond the max oversize can cause a pulsating pedal and will not dissipate heat very well. The same is true for brake rotors.
Yes but they are 5.5 lug pattern.
Rich, Are putting the larger bearing ends on your axle housing?
Lynn, yes, the old style big bearing ends.
Bill, well I sure could'nt use the drums then, but if otherwise the same, I guess I could use the backing plate. This is all predicated on the fact that I could find oem backing plates cheap enough to save enough $ to make it worthwhile. Currie backing plates with the complete mechanisms are 200. per side. Ford Racing is a little cheaper at 350 both sides. Neither has drums included. Jegs or Summit has a "PEM brand" at 300 including drums. One would have to wonder about the quality I would think.
So many questions when you get into an area not previously explored, lol.....are the backing plates on systems that have wider brake shoes the same? What changes, just the shoes/drums/or is the height of the brake cylinder and hardware different also?
Can the Torino style bolt pattern backing plate be drilled out/slotted to be used on the old style big bearing bolt pattern
At one time I was wondering how similar the Ranchero large bearing rear ends were compared to my similar year F100 as far as backing plates, brakes, drums and axle retainer. I know the axles them selves are different. I never got around to doing the comparison.
I have some loose F100 axles that I was going to measure the bearing OD and bolt pattern on the retainer to compare but I got in a hurry to get the Ranchero back on the road and didn't do that either.
With all the different backing plates, shoes, drums and bearing retainers that Ford used in different years and models I hope someone has the info for you. It's baffling to me and requires more research then I have time.
Early Big Bearing and Late Big Bearing have the same OD on the bearing. The retaining plate bolt pattern is different. Elongating the holes a little and they will fit. Some of the earlier F100s had a mix of 28 and 31 spline axles. By the time the F150 came out and the F100 was retired, most if not all had 31 spline.
Rich,
I have a set of 57 wagon big bearing backing plates you can have if you want them . just pay for the shipping. let me know.
Awesome...I've been flip flopping back and forth between disc drum, old rebuilt or new, it's time to make a decision, and you just pushed me in a direction..thank you!!
PM sent
So...rear brakes...wagons & Rancheros big brakes vs. standard brakes. what's the difference exactly?
is the drum dia. the same?
what is the difference in shoe widths?
Is the brake cyl. a bigger bore on the wagons?
big bearing axel housing aside, is the backing plate for the big brakes different than the std brakes? If so, is it the area where the brake cylinder mounts to keep the cylinder's push rods centered on the width of the shoes?
Does anybody have pn's for the big brake components, and is any of this stuff available thru NAPA....I see prices like 150. per drum from classic auto parts?!
Basically everything is different,
Shoes and drums are wider, 2" vs 1 3/4" on passenger cars. Drums are 11" same as car.
Backing plates have a larger center hole for the big bearing and different hole pattern for for the bearing retainer. I asked this question before and was told the backing plate sits further inboard to allow the wider shoes and drums.
Wheel cylinders are 15/16" vs 7/8".
This is to the best of my knowledge which isn't always 100% accurate :003:
The brake shoes/drums are wider, (1/2" if I remember right). The extra width is on the inside, the backing plates and the drums are different. Drum diameter is the same. The brake cylinders are 15/16" vs. 7/8". Looking at the parts book it seems the big brakes require big bearings. I have the original PN#s if you need them.