Hello again, We have the car on the road again (sort of) I would like to improve the stopping power! I have read through the pages and would like to hear todays thinking on which way to go? Last year the front and rear drum brakes were done no problems. The front spindles are in good shape and I like the way the 57 sits. My ultimate goal is front disc brakes with 15" Cragar S/S wheels. Then on to the rear. Thanks for any and all help!
i did the granada spindle swap because i want to use 14 inch wheels.there are a few kits that use the 57 spindle but all the ones i looked at needed 15 inch wheels.i used 68 ltd rear brakes to get the common 11x2 1/4 shoes and self adjusters
I REALLY like the Wilwood kit. The 4 piston calipers are fixed and they weigh almost nothing! A bit pricey, but worth it. I had '70s Torino spindles and disc brakes (single piston) on mine but they were incredibly heavy. I also perceived that I had geometry issues so I went back to stock spindles.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILWOOD-DISC-BRAKE-KIT-FRONT-58-68-FORD-MERCURY-EDSEL-11-ROTORS-BLACK-CALIPERS-/291280155037?fits=Year%3A1957%7CMake%3AFord&hash=item43d1a6719d:g:VnQAAOSwF1dUT8NS&vxp=mtr
Summit Racing has the kit p/n 140-13653 for $574.99, free shipping. That's where I got my kit last year. My car stops great. Make sure you get the hose kit p/n 220-8307 $59.95 if you chose to go with Wilwood.
Rick,
57 Tudor
:unitedstates:
Hello again, I like the looks of what Wilwood has to offer. Stopping is important to me and my passengers! You get what you pay for is what I hear! gasman826 you out there? I'm sorry I missed you in Michigan, I will be back in mid august. I hope to help with the front brakes. After looking at the car what do you think about the disc project? I would like to make the best decision so I can get Woody the parts 1st of august. I want to thank all who share their thinking and experience!
I already talked with Woody. Search this site for several good solutions. This subject has been beat several times.
Hello again, lots of information here about brake conversions, at this moment I am looking at the Scarebird set-up. They recommend using a master cylinder from a 68 galaxie with disc in front and drums in the rear. Has someone used the m/c. Thanks, so much to learn!
I am using one. It works well.
Hello again, Lots of information in the previous post! Sounds like the Wilwood and Scarebird set-up both use the 68-69 mustang rotor with a shim behind the inner bearing. Does this change the wheel location from stock? Will this effect my wheel choice in using a 15" Cragar S/S? Thanks for listening and sharing!!
I used 69 Torino spindles, rotors, calipers, everything. Had to ream the bottom of the spindle to accept the larger 57 ball joint. The car sits about 3/4 " lower and that's about it. I'm running 15" stock steel wheels in front. Car seems to steer and handle the same as it always did. The master cylinder I'm using is a non power disc brake unit from a Granada with a Wilwood adjustable brake bias valve. Nice part about it is its all Ford stuff and available anywhere.
Torino, Mustang, Cougar, and probably more use the same spindle up to 69 then changed slightly in 1970. I'd try and steer away from the 72 and up Torino, Montego, etc as the calipers and hardware got quite a bit bulkier.
Quote from: glenmichael on 2016-07-08 08:18
Hello again, Lots of information in the previous post! Sounds like the Wilwood and Scarebird set-up both use the 68-69 mustang rotor with a shim behind the inner bearing. Does this change the wheel location from stock? Will this effect my wheel choice in using a 15" Cragar S/S? Thanks for listening and sharing!!
I don't remember shims for the bearings and I am not sure about the centerline to centerline of the wheels compared to stock (looks the same as far as I can tell). The Cragar wheels will work fine.
Hello again, After all the reading I talked to Woody and we decided to go with Scarebird! I ordered the brackets last night, When they arrive, I'll pick up the other parts. My plan was to use the 68 galaxie m/c. Knowing that the rear brakes will be next, they are small stock drums, if the option we chose is disc, should I be thinking about a different master cylinder-boster now?
Hello again, I know will he ever stop? I started looking at the ford svo rear disc brake kit( staying with the ford 9"). Could this also help my rear wheel and tire options? On-Off-Size???
There's always the issue of buying expandable parts. For proper front to rear (disc/drum) pressure, the system needs a disc/drum master and bias/proportioning valve. Disc/Disc will need a disc/disc master cylinder and less dependent on a proportioning valve. A adjustable bias valve will work on either system and not be a waste.
The last I knew, the SVO/Explorer does not bolt to the small bearing 9" rear end without modifications. The original '57 Custom rear end is small bearing (if it is still original). The '96-01 Lincoln, Grand Marquis, Ford rear disc brake swap is a better fit. I have both if you want to borrow a set to test fit.
The rear disc brake swap will unfortunately reduce tire clearance. The rotor is thicker than a brake drum. This 1/8"-3/16" will reduce tire clearance between the outer sidewall and the fender well lip. The swap may also require a 1/4" bearing spacer which also moves the tire another 1/4" closer to the fender lip.
Plan A is to bring Scarebird brackets and misc. parts up to Adrain mid august and help woody with the install.. I can install the galaxie m/c for now, we can adjust and play!! I would like to meet and talk about the rear brakes then if that would be possible. Your knowledge and experience would be greatly appreciated.
Hello again, The Scarebird brackets arrived and they look fantastic!! Today I picked up the remaining pcs. in town, same parts store since 1961, man I like going there! I'll post progress and pic's if there is interest..
Quote from: glenmichael on 2016-07-18 10:08
I'll post progress and pic's if there is interest..
Please do.....:<)
Yes, please do.
A folow up to what Gary said about the disc brakes reducing tire clearance.... I think the disc brakes even though move the wheels closer to the fender, are actually easier for tire removal since the rotor is much less mass to clear the inner wheel surface as opposed to the drums.
Hello, My goody bag is packed,, Scarebird brackets- 68,69 mustang rotors- wheel seals- inner+outer bearings- spindle nut kit- dust cap- 68 galaxie master cylinder- 83,92 S-10 calipers with soft pads-hoses-banjo bolts-grease-brake fluid-cleaner-rags-$515.86 and counting!! Heading north aug.1 , back in florida sept 1 , will post results and pics then, it should be a stopping good time!!
Hello again, after reading my last post I'd like to Apologize for those calipers (ouch)!! I plan on using my 'Well. That's Hot Rodin' card!! Hope I'm forgiven...
Hello again, Our 57 front drum to disc brakes conversion was a complete success!! BIG stopping difference..
The master cylinder was the easy swap, change the rod length for pedal position and bleed the brake lines, good to stop..The best part the Cragars fit with full turn, no rubs!! 15x7 rims with 15x60x225 tires..
Glad to hear it all worked out well for you. I am considering the Scarebird disc brake setup for my 59 2 door sedan. What master cylinder did you use, & do you know the bore size? Did the disc brake setup make the front track any wider, or still the same? And what is the brake pedal effort like? I am assuming that you have manual brakes, and I plan to keep my car manual as well. Any idea on how much heavier the disc brakes are than the drum setup? Did you run an adjustable proportioning valve, a factory proportioning valve, or just direct from the master to the calipers? Are you still using the factory 57 rear drum brakes? Thanks.
The master cylinder we used was ordered for a 1968 ford galaxie with front disc and rear drum. It directly bolted up to the 57 firewall and we adjusted the stock rod to set the pedal location. Scarebird supplied a 1/4" spacer that rest between the spindle and rotor inner bearing. We never compared the location of the rotor face to the brake drum! The tire we used is 225/60/R15 on 15x7 fits, works, looks great! The car stops with far less pedal pressure than before, no proportioning valve, now direct front and rear. Weight? Now stock rear brakes next project along with the 9".. That being said where do we discuss the options for the 9" rebuild, I'd like to leave two black strips!! I had experienced help and enjoyed the disc swap, on to the rear end. Time to learn our options..
Hello again, My 57 is back in storage for the winter. Which gives me time to plan to rebuild the 9 inch rear end. The stock 57 rear brakes are in great condition, and with the 15 x 8 cragars and 15x60xR255 tires, trimmed wheel wells we cannot afford to move the tires out. My hope is with the new front disc brakes and some adjusting the rear brakes will be fine. I would like to rebuild the 9 inch rear and add a posi type center. Do you guys have any ideas or suggestions on that? Thanks for your input.
I went the full route on mine....New 3.50 gears, 31 spline axles, Yukon trac loc, narrowed 3/4 per side, changed to old style big bearings (to suit the disc brakes kit I wanted to use), and added a taller yoke to compensate for a driveshaft that was 1" too short. The big thing for me was finding an experienced shop mainly because of the case being narrowed. My total cost was right at 2 grand. That doesn't include new shocks, 6 leaf springs, isolators, u-bolts and bushings.
What part of the country are you in?
I retired to Florida. I left the 57 with Mike ( brother in law ) best thing my sister did! in Michigan.. In the past year in part thanks to this site we have installed the 460, C-6, front disc and when we finish the rear I plan a trip to Florida!! There we will tackle the interior, and so on.. I need to pull the 9" out to finish the rear wheel wells next spring, I hope to have a plan and parts by then.. We were thinking a 3.50 gear not sure about 70mph on 75 south??
I have a 3.89 rear gear and my car seems to "scream" at 70 mph. around 3500 rpm. I have a 462 FE and a 4 speed. My plan is to go to a 3.25 (at least) that will drop the revs to about 2925 . With a 460 and a C6 on 255/60 15 tires you will run 3045 rpm at 70 mph. With a 3.10 gear you are looking at 2700 rpm or so.
Years ago I saved a 76 Ranchero from the crusher. Pulled the dead 400M and tranny, put in a 460/C-6, ran the stock 2.73 gears and got near 20 @ 70 MPH with an out of the box Holley 600 CFM. Big ol thing still pulled hard and was a ball to drive. Torque is the thing.....
That is my thought exactly. My 462 dyno'd at a max 550 ft lbs of torque with an incredibly flat torque curve from 2500 to 5500 rpm. If you punch it at 3500 rpm in 3rd gear it will smoke the tires. Too much gear.....
...or not enough tire!!!!!!
Lol! Yeah, but tires are my safety valve!!!
I've said it before, All I want for Christmas is a 4.10 gear!! Looking at your numbers if I drive it south the 3.10 makes more sense..I have a stock 28 spline rear, now I to start looking.
just wondering could I rebuild the stock one wheeler for the road trip and have another center section for regular fun?
One of the best features of a 9"...a spare setting in the garage with a go fast gear!!!!
If I was going to go cross country, I'd go 3.00 or even 2.75 with the slippage of the torque converter in your automatic. For cross country, I've run a 3.00 with a 5 speed Tremec. I have a 3.00 gear in the Raunch Wagon with FordOMatic running about 3000RPM at 70MPH. Nice around town but a little high RPM for highway. I have centers in buckets ready to pop in setup with 4.11, 3.89, 3.50, 3.00 gears, Detroit Lockers, Daytona pinion supports and shimmed pinion gears all 31 spline. I think there is a loose 2.75 gear and a 3.50 Traction Lok with 28 spline. I have several used open centers with more road worthy gears. If it is just a get it to 'Florida and save the engine' gear, you're welcome to try one of those. I'm still of the opinion that the 28 spline axles will stand up to street abuse with street tires. Tires under a stock '57 will not likely break 28 spline axles. If you are narrowing the housing and buying new axles, I would consider making the change to 31 spline axles. 12" sticky tires and high stall convertor might stress 28 spline a bit.
That sounds wonderful, a highway gear ( easy on the motor and better fuel mileage ) and a go fast gear!!! I'll talk to Mike, hear his thoughts.. I love the idea and think Woody and I need to plan another visit.. Please save the 28 spline stuff and again Thanks for your help and friendship to Woody and I through out this build!! Thanks Gary..
After conferring with my better half,, and talking with Woody,, together we have decided to finish the drive-line with a fun gear and ship the 57 to Florida!! Woody thinks the 28 spline-3.50 Traction Lock would be perfect for us.. Is that something you would sell us? If yes I'll send Woody some cash..
Hello again, Just an update, I received a call from Woody, a 57 wagon sporting new front disc brakes pulls down the driveway, come to find out it is gasman826 bearing a package.. The 3.50 posi center section!! Back to plan A, finish the rear end, dial in the brakes, find a carrier and send the 57 south. Thanks again for all the input you guys have a lot of knowledge out there! I sent woody some money for your next visit, Thanks Gary...