Evening-
I recently purchased a one owner 57' ford Custom 300 two door. I have always loved hot rods. This car will be no different. The weekend after buying the car I spent 4 hours on hotsy pressure washer blasting away 59 years of grime. I gutted the original carpet/rubber mat and scrubbed the mouse smell out the best I could. Going through the glove box I found that my car was originally sold from Corbett motors, a ford dealership that closed in my town around 1974. My original plans for the car were to build an "old school" hot rod with a built 312 and a 4 speed top loader. I purchased the motor and trans. In the long run I didn't think
I would be happy with the y block performance so I purchased a 428 CJ from a friend. It should roll the car until the real motor is built. The finished version of this care in my head is a raven black paint job, all trim and bumpers redone, 15" cragars, as much tire as I can get in the back and skinnys up front, 427 FE with a toploader, 4:10 out back.
Excellent helper you got there! My Custom is set up as a '60s era "sleeper"...stock appearance, 462 FE, toploader, 3.89 rear gear, disc brakes, black and white... so I like your vision! I wish I knew more about my cars history, good score.
I have purchased most of my 57' parts from a close friend that own almost every model of 57' that ford offered. He told me that he always disliked the factory trans crossmember when doing this swap. Does anyone know of issues that come up with this crossmember? I plan on running headers and duel exhaust of coarse. Are there exhaust pipe clearance issues? Trans mount issues?
C6 transmissions have pan clearance issues and most headers point right into the cross member. OEM cross member does not have humps for large duel exhaust systems.
I am running a completely stock frame and mounts for both the engine and the 4 speed. I have FPA headers and a 2 1/2" exhaust with zero clearance issues. Since FE's were offered in '58's using the same frame things can work out nicely with the right stuff. The rear cross member could stand to be modified for exhaust reasons and it needs to be modified to run the C-6 automatic. (The stock cross member can also be a pain to reinstall as it wedges between the fram rails.) I did have to convert to a hydraulically actuated clutch to clear the headers though. I had a basically stock z-bar set up with stock manifolds.
Great build... and a great helper.
My 427 fell into mine with y block mounts mounted in standard Y configuration. I used the original crossmember ends mated to the middle portion of a Crown Vic (90s-00s cop car) crossmember for the dual humps to clear my headers. It bolts in like the original. My headers are from a 67-68 Mustang, Hooker Super Comp 6114, and fit like they were made for the car. Honestly, these are the best fitting headers I have ever put on anything, including a set of cusgtom built headers on my last 57. These required no dents, no banging, no cutting anywhere. Highly recommended. Rear gear is currently 4.56, will change out to 3.25 with limited slip for longer trips. For around town, the 4.56 will stay.
If that rubber mat is at all salvageable, save it, no one makes reproductions, and they are big dolar expensive when you find NOS ones. Im talking you could buy 4 new carpets for what the rear section alone cost NOS. Save everything you can, because a lot of stuff for 57s is super pricey, not at all like 57 Chev which you can basically build out of a catalog.
Are you going to be staying with the blue and white? Classy color combo for sure. Plus looks good as a period correct street racer, a lot of thsoe roamed around in the 60s with FE power. My dads was two tone green with a 390.
As for tires, a lot of folks will tell you 245 60 is about it. DOnt listen to them. It's kind of a pain to get them on and off, but I have 275 60 15 on mine, and lots of clearance. it does get a little tight with 15x8 wheels. I am running 15x7 Ford steel wheels, like 69-70 Boss 302 non-Magnums. These fit the 57 Ford dog dish caps and just look right on the car. With the 275 60s, they don't balloon out like I was afraid of, and look perfect on the car. A nice fat tire without looking too big on it. I wish it were just a bit taller, but a 27.5 inches tall, it is ok. I also tried on some 255 70 tires, and they really looked good, a 29.1 inch tall tire. Just hard to find any more that do not look like mud tires. I have 205 70 15s on the front of my car with a 15x5 inch steel wheel. Those are pretty hard to find, but if you look they are out there. 1956 and back Fords used them, though these are off a 1970 LTD (galaxie).
If you use a toploader, be sure to get one from either a Fairlane or Galaxie. Mustang shifter is mounted at the rear of the tailshaft, and will not clear the bench seat. I used one from a 67 Fairlane, and it works fine.
Like you, I started out with a 312. I spent a bunch of money tracking down parts to make mine into an F-code clone. I bought the supercharger, all the brackets and pulleys, idlers, etc, heads. Then had all the machine work done, all that was left was to assemble it. I told my dad that I just couldnt see having that much money tied up in it, and get walked at a stoplight by a smallblock. If I could find an FE for what I could get out of the Y I would buy it. SO that day when I picked up my 312 at the machine shop, I listed it all on ebay. I ended up getting 2900 for the 312, and 1500 for the Paxton setup. As luck would have it, a friend of mine had two complete 427s. I called him and asked about one. He didnt know what they were worth, but I told him I had priced a bare block at 2k. He sold me a complete, low mile 427, all standard, for 3500. When I pulled it apart to check it out, it was as clean as a brand new engine inside, cross hatches still in the standard 4.23 bores, std rod and main bearings, with the FoMoCo logo still on them. I did a quick bottle brush hone, put new rings and bearings in, bolted on a set of MR heads that I bought from a friend, and started collecting the pretty stuff. I got a Tunnel Wedge intake from another buddy, then scored a set of my holy grail valve covers, the aluminum pent roofs with 427 Cobra lettering. My final bit of jewelry was the oval breather. On 2x4 apps on 57 Fords, the hood latch is right where the oval breather wants to be. I had to buy a blank bottom from Branda, and cut my carb holes further back to move the whole assembly forward a couple inches. The only other alternative is to cut off the rear two inches of air cleaner housing and I didnt want to do that. It just looks bad to me. I hope to have a couple pictures up on my build thread of the completed air cleaner in a couple days. I have to fabricate some offset breather studs first, then permanantly attach my 427 eagle to the front of the housing. More on that later.
Cant wait to see another twin to my car coming together, I love these old Customs and Custom 300s with FE power, built in the old school way.
The build moves forward, slowly. My buddy came through with a used 428 CJ flywheel and clutch. I dropped the flywheel and clutch off at six states for grinding and rebuilding. They should be done next week. I have tried to get a new stock brake master cylinder from my local Napa and Carquest twice but eveytime it gets here the bolt pattern is incorrect (too wide, I am guessing for F100). They have both told me that they have no other options. Does anyone have a manufacture or kit that they recommend to do the dual bowl master cylinder. I want to stick with manual brakes and the ones I have seen are all power brake cylinders.
Gibson68..... you mentioned you want to retain your drum drum brakes..I used a stock 67 Mustang drum drum master.It's a bolt on.Look in the "Brake "Section here on the board.. lots of different masters can be used.I may be incorrect but one of the members will guide you.
Here is the thread I followed a while a go...
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=2303.msg12820#msg12820
In the end I would like disc brakes front and rear so a master cylinder that would work on my car now with drums and later with disc would be the best. It sounds like the best bet for manual breaks is to use the smaller diameter cylinder. I think my best bet is to run new stainless pre bent lines while I am at it. The rear drum brakes look like they were redone shortly before the car was parked. I installed new wheel cylinders and cleaned up what was there. They should work until I do the disc brake change out. I haven't inspected front brakes but I do have new cylinders on hand.
I went through the same scenario. When I first got the Raunch Wagon, I wanted to drive it. New brake hoses, new wheel cylinders, and new master cylinder. I also knew eventually I would upgrade to disc brakes. Since I needed a new master cylinder, I upgraded to a dual MC. I chose a '76 Maverick MC (not much different than a Mustang or several others). The drum brakes require a 7/8" bore MC. Brakes have worked as OEM drum brakes should for several years. Recently, I upgraded to disc brakes and I tried to cheap-out and use the existing MC. NO GO or better NO STOP!! The disc brakes require a larger volume of fluid than the 7/8" bore MC could pump. Since I had to upgrade the MC, I went all the way and ordered a 7" dual diaphragm booster with MC for disc brakes for a '57. It was a bolt on!!!. If I had spent a bunch of time and money on pre-bent, stainless lines, I would have been really put out. The pre-bent lines would require modifications to fit the Maverick dual master cylinder. Then, the lines would need to be modified again for the upgrade to the disc brake booster/MC combo. I also changed out the front brake lines to 1/4". I've seen it both ways, 3/16" and 1/4" with no issues for either size. Most OEM applications went with the larger size. I installed Granada style spindles with OEM calipers. Again, the lines need to be modified to relocate the to the disc brake flex line attachment point. Then there's the proportioning valve or bias valve depending which or if you are going to use one. So...my opinion is to patch the lines until you do the disc upgrade. For either system (drum or disc) to work correctly, each system requires a unique part list. Sorry, straddling the fence just doesn't work in this case. If you're going with more power, go with more stop. Do the disc brakes first to save some money and have the confidence you can stop that big block!
My toploader is from a Mustang and the shifter mounts where it would on a Galaxie transmission. It does clear the bench seat nicely. You do need the correct shifter mounting plate though.
What is the best way to figure out where and how large of a hole to drill into the trans hump for my top loader shifter? I am running a 67' fairlane trans with a hurst competition plus shifter and I am keeping the factory bench seat. I looked around on the forum but I didn't see any measurements.
best bet is to put in the motor and trans, without shifter, measure back from rear of block to shifter position, then measure back that far inside car. Drill a hole to start, then use heavy tin snips or a cutoff wheel (easiest) to finish the hole. Make it just big enough for the shifter. My shifter is a high mount racing style. Though not an inline shifter, it still requires a pretty big hole that I will have to close back in before I lay floor covering down.
I did pretty much the same thing, but I left the crossmember off and mounted the shifter (less handle). Then I jacked up the tranny cutting the hole as I got it in the right place. I was able to use the smaller Hurst shift boot.
It sounds like my best bet is to buy the 67' mustang drum/drum master cylinder for now and when I do the switch to discs just get a different master cylinder. I have a couple of mustangs waiting for me when I get the 57' done so it's not a total loss. I read somewhere that the one of the best brake mods you can do on your car is upgrade to braided flex lines instead of standard flex lines. Is anyone here running braided or seen them available for 57'?
I have stainless braided hoses on my car and I have used them before, well worth the little added cost. I personally would NOT use stock brakes under any circumstances. Brand new from the factory a single hard stop from 70 mph, they fade to nothing and require several minutes to recover before the car can stop again. I have had personal experiences going back to "the day" that scared the crap out of me. I have Wilwood 4 piston caliper front brakes, stock rears, braided hoses, a 67 Galaxie disc/drum non-power master cylinder. The results... a rock hard pedal that will STOP the car.
That said, this guy does custom stainless brake hoses for any vintage car, I have used him twice and he is reaonably priced, quick and does excellent work.
Brake Hoses Unlimited
616-836-7885
NIck Christman
goodbrakes@brakehoses.biz
I got a call from the machine shop yesterday and it looks like a new 12" clutch with new pilot/throw out is considerable cheaper than rebuilding my original 11-1/2". They are still waiting for the new ring gear to arrive for the flywheel. They should be ready early next week. I have a 67'fairlane wide ratio big block top loader that came with my 67' mustang convertible that I plan to use in this car due to it being incorrect for the mustang. The previous owner said he didn't recall having any issues with it. I plan on changing the input and output seal and changing the gear oil before installing it, any other things I should check out before install?
Back in the old days, we flipped the ring gear...good for another 100k miles
I just put a pair of GOODBRAKE hoses on the Raunch Wagon disc brake upgrade. Super fast delivery, fit great, fair price, custom applications, very pleased.
I picked up the freshly ground flywheel, new clutch, clutch alignment tool and two sets of used flywheel bolts last night after work. He was unsure which bolt length was correct for the flywheel. It's been awhile since I've ran a manual trans. Are there supposed to be washers on the flywheel bolts? What length of bolt would be correct for a 428?
No washer, use Locktight. For the manual I think they are 1 1/2" long....been a while. Just try the long bolts, they should show a couple of threads out of the flange. I do know the automatic bolts are shorter then the manual.
Well now that I have the 428 motor ready to go I have had a change of plans for this car. The 312 Y block on the stand has been haunting my dreams! The more I dig into the Y block info from Mummert, Tim McMaster and Eaton balancing the more I like them. Moving forward, I pulled the pan on 312 to give it a thorough inspection. After pulling the rod cap on piston #1 it's for sure, time for some machine work. This motor was defenitly rebuilt a long time ago. It had FOMOCO 40 over pistons, 10/10 crank, 5750-471 heads. I have done a bunch of research today looking for the max bore size for 312 blocks but there is not much out there. It looks like 292 blocks will go 60 over pretty easily but no info on 312. Mummert offers 60 over pistons for the block so some of them must make it. Looks like I am headed for a sonic test at the machine shop.
That's a great change of plans! The 1957 Ford mechanics handbook states 0.060 over max for 312 also.
I called my engine builder this morning. He has an awesome idea for a 351 stroker Y block that uses Buick pistons, sbc rods, topped off with mummerts heads and intake. As long as my 312 doesn't have too much core shift it should be fine at 60 over. I have been trying to get a hold of Mummert for a month now by voice mail, no luck yet. He must be a busy guy.
I was able to speak with John Mummert today. I am so impressed with the mountains of Y block knowledge that he has. We talked about how his heads as cast and his full race heads on this 351 build. With his full race heads, dished pistons to get the compression to pump gas friendly 10.5-11.0, 292 cam, topped off with his port matched intake we should be able to break 400hp pretty easily. I am excited to see what internals it takes to make a 351 Y block.
I am a big FE fan, more "bang for the buck". Same mods will give you over 500 HP on the 428. That said, there is a soft spot in my heart for Y blocks. I would feel in conflict too. I opted for the 428...
Me too. I had a 57 312 that had just come from the machine shop. It was complete with VR57(58) supercharger setup, and was preparing to build it and get it ready to go in. I found out about my current 427 from my dad, so I put it on ebay before I even had it unloaded from my truck. It sold that evening for my buy it now price. I later sold the supercharger setup to a forum member. I contacted the man about the 427, he agreed to sell it to me for a little less than I had gotten for the 312. I bought it, put a new set of rings and bearigns in it, which it did not need. It had less than 200 hours n it since new. The hone marks were still in the cylinder bores. This thing is super-cherry. The only other mods, were a piston swap, a set of MR heads, tunnel wedge intake, 2x4 carbs from Carls, and Comp 294 solid cam. Later on, I plan to change over to solid roller cam, and maybe add a little arm to the crank. For now, I just want to drive it and enjoy it. It hasnt moved under its own power since 1968. It was run as a c or d gasser in the late 60s with 390 and 4 speed. Like Lynn says, the FE is the bang for the buck, however, not much else sounds as sweet as a nicely built y block, I love the sound. The only reason I switched from the Y was because of the 427. I wouldnt have done it for a 390 or 428. The only other FE I would have run instead of the Y would have been a 406 3x2v. Whichever you choose, it will be great. Mummert is THE Y block man, and Ted Eaton is right there with him. He is the one responsible for the 604 hp Y block at this years engine masters competition.
What year 427? The winter of '71-72, I stumbled onto a 427. It had a OEM 2x4 intake with the one piece Cobra air cleaner, a Mallory dual point, M/T valve covers, deep oil pan, and Hooker headers. There was some porting work on the heads and Jahns 13:1 pistons. I had no cam card and no numbers on the cam but an etched C7xxxxxxxx OEM style part number. Around Detroit, stuff had a tendency to surface with no history. I also installed a pair of new Holley 660s. This engine was radical...NASCAR stuff. I put it in a Mustang. It turned my mom and dad's hair gray. I visit a shut-in friend a couple times a month. This guy is mister 427. He has an original, unrestored '64 Galaxie light weight. He drives it a little every summer except this year. He still has pieces and parts of 427s and a few SOHC pieces. It's been years but I remember a fully assembled SOHC motor on a stand in his garage. His major conversation piece is a fully assembled 427 stroker in his man cave.
mine is a 66 spec, though the block is actually 70. It came from a Chris Craft cruiser, fresh water, closed system. The hour meter on the boat showed around 220 hours, so this was a very low use engine, as evidenced by the zero wear in the bores, bearings, etc. I got rid of al the cast iron boat stuff, put in 66-67 427 MR spec parts including pistons, so this one is ready to rock. I really want an oil pan like the one in your photo, that's the C8AX pan, factory muscle parts pan. It would work way better in my 57 than the Canton T pan I have..its pretty close...
Stay with the 'T' pan. That old pan hung down way too low.
After speaking with the engine builder and reading a bunch of threads on the 292 vs 312 block I have decided to go with the 292 block for better strength. Here is the layout for the 351 stroker rotating assembly. Forged 283 SBC pistons (3.875), eagle 6.125 rods with SBC pin size and Honda 1.889 rod journals, grind the 312 mains to std 292 mains, grind the rod journals to 1.889, offset grind the crank stroke to 3.727. There are a few concerns I have that will have to be address. The bore size of 3.875 would be 125 over 292. The cast crank ground to the smaller Honda journal and spinning over 5500 may be a recipe for disaster.
I would be most concerned about the .125 overbore. A simple sonic test of the cylinder wall thickness would let you know before you get started whether you will have enough wall thickness left... I think .100" is minimum. Is there a forged steel crank available? If you are not racing it I am thinking it is a plan. Sounds pricey especially if the engine goes south though.
.125 is no big deal on a 292 block, as Ted Eaton does it a lot. The 1.88 rod journals would be spooky though, that is small. It has been done though, I believe Pat Fleischman's 57 Custom has a 351 or 354 y block, which started life as a 292. Aside from the stroker combo, it also has a heavily worked Paxton VR57 supercharger that puts out a good bit more than the OEM 6 lbs of boost. It lives fine, but the key is prep and quality rotating assembly and parts. Honestly though, you would be way better off buying custom lightweight pistons instead of going the cheaper route with forged 283 pistons. All of those that are available are heavy, and that coupled with the smaller rod journals, is inviting trouble. Get a good set of Diamond or Mahle pistons, they can custom make them in whatever bore size and pin height, valve configuration you specify. And, the price is not as bad as you think. Just my .02.
I priced the Diamond pistons in a special .060 over size for a 428. Price wasn't bad at all, I was surprised. would up using Mahle as part of a Scat stroker kit (.030 over), the pistons were very nice!
After a few phones with Ted Eaton he has advised I go with a 330" build instead of the 351 build due to the rod journal size of 1.889. He said a few guys have tried this with a factory crank and it didn't end well, basically complete crankshaft failure. Instead of running a common four barrel on this motor I am looking into running an edelbrock 573 3x2 manifold with Stromberg "big"97 carbs. I emailed Strindberg technical this afternoon to see if they offered a linkage and fuel line kit for the edelbrock carb spacing. I will sacrifice some HP with this set up but I think it will be an awesome old school set up.