Does anyone with a 302 with stock springs tell me if they have a stack of shims to align properly. I'm adjusting mine and getting it close but I have had to install a lot of shims and it still needs more. I'm wondering if I need lighter duty springs for the lighter weight 302.
My fear is not having enough threads left if I keep adding shims.
All the parts are mass produced with +/- tolerances. Alignment could be required with any part change, sever off roading, ride height change, or major crash damage. Typically, I run out of shims before getting the my preferred setup. Without hands-on information, I'm guessing you are trying to get camber to '57 spec. Radial tires don't require one degree positive camber. Zero to 1/2 degree might be a better goal. Ride height could be another issue. The higher the ride height the more negative camber. So if your cars ride height sets 'nose high', more shims are required to obtain desired camber. 'Nose high' also kills positive caster. Recalibrate your equipment, measure the ride height, photos could help, and tell us more.
Thank you for the response Gasman. The car does have radials and is nose high. It looks pigeon toed and needs more shims so I'll play with it some more this weekend. I was curious to see if any 302 conversions changed out the front coil springs since it sits high in the front with the lighter engine, plus an aluminum intake and headers. I like it higher in the front but alignment will dictate the ride height at this point or at least threads on the bolts.
57 manual says max thickness of shim stack is 9/16" and max difference front to back (for caster) 1/8".
if you need more than that I'd think about longer bolts and wedge shaped washers, so that bolt head and nut are square to surface again.
Good to know about the 9/16 max. Thanks
Let's see...What did a 6 cyl. 223 weigh compared to a 302? I have a few sets of 6 cyl springs if you want to try that.
I think the 302 weighs around 400-450, not sure what the 223 weighs, maybe the way to go.
http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/engineweights2.html
Here's a link to engine weights. The Y block is around 650 lbs. the 302 is about 200 lbs lighter and maybe more with the aluminum intake. The 6 banger is listed at 385. I had no idea the y block was so heavy.
I didn't see the weight for a 223 listed, I think they only listed the later little model six at 385. I can guarantee you the 223 is much heavier, some where closer to 500 +
Kerby................as you may remember I went thru a long process trying to get my ride height and associated handling issues corrected. All issues apparently arising from the substantially lighter weight and positioning of my 4.6 drivetrain. My block is aluminum as well, not sure what your 302 is. Weight of the 4.6 dohc/4R70W for reference is 719 pounds. I was originaly told by Eaton that was within 60 lbs of the oem 6 cyl w/ 3 spd manual. I don't believe that anymore, I think it's several hundred lighter, but can't confirm. I think a major factor on the 4.6 is the weight sits back substantially further than the oem 6 as well, so it got a bit more involved than a straight weight issue.
You say your car is nose high. Is that where you are going to leave it? Just saying you should get the ride height changed if you're going to and don't drive too much without a good alignment before you do. I went thru a brand new set of tires in less than 1k miles testing heights/handling.
My lengthy posts about the issues are on my build thread, with final changes around page 30, but start back around page 25 if you're up for lots of reading. http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=5795.435
Thanks Rich, I do like the nose high look and plan to keep it if I can. I'm thinking about cutting a few inches off of the existing spring to see if that will get me closer to the shims needed without installing longer bolts. I had not considered 6 cylinder springs as Jack recommended but my fear with that is the 302 being too heavy for them. After looking at the weight Hiball thinks the 223 is I might be better off with a 6 cylinder spring of the 223 is that heavy. I will keep researching before I do anything. I've been driving it very little since the alignment is off, plus I'm still struggling with my AOD adjustments. Thanks for your information
I agree with Jim, the 6 cyl springs shouldn't be too weak for the 302. What I ended up with is 6 cyl (new) springs with about 1 1/4 cut off if I remember correctly. It's in my build thread. Don't forget whatever you cut off will be approximately doubled for actual drop. The 2" you mentioned will drop the car about 4".
Wirenut, If you go to members rides,third topic from top---"Finish Custom by Custom Shelby". His custom started out as a 235 6 with a3 speed stick ! Now it"s got a 302/C4-6 cyl springs(originals}with 68 torino spindles/disc brakes.Tires are 235x70x15's B F Goodrich Radial TA's on 15" wheels.In the rear he used the stock springs but added extras(total of 6).It too was nose high without drive train but once the 302/C4 was installed it lower the front but still a little high.Once running we drove it down a couple of bumpy-rutty roads for a week,everything sorted out and settled another 11/2" to the ride hight you see in the pictures. They say a picture is worth a 1000 words so there you are.might save you some work! KID
The Raunch Wagon spring let go last summer. I had another set for ranch wagon springs but from a 6 cylinder car. The ride height was about the same if not higher. Not very scientific, who knows the age or origin of either set of springs.
the info i have from ford says the 223 dry weight is 520 lbs
Thanks to each of you. I appreciate your input and sharing your knowledge.