57fordsforever.com

This is was my project at 53 weeks into it.

I am learning to post pictures and hopefully will get this correct.

Another.  I'm trying to reduce size to get more than one picture to post at a time.  Sorry for the mess ups!

This was taken about 1/2 second before the rear friction "hold" on the upright dropped the car.  Can you say heart attack?  When I realized I was fine, I became worried about the quarter panel hitting the ground or the leg of my rotisserie.  All was good as the upright bottomed out before the body contacting either.

Looks like you're off to a good start! What are your drivetrain plans? I wish I had the space to do an off frame on mine. I am looking forward to following your build.

That has got to be great having a rotisserie. That's going to be a nice ride!

Drivetrain plans are for a 312, 3 spd/od.  This vehicle originally had a 6 cyl w/od and a 389/1 rear gear, which I plan to use.  I can't rotate the body in my garage, it's too full.  Almost 1/2 of the 2 car garage is filled with parts from the teardown.

My rotisserie is homemade.  I'm an extremely slow worker anymore.  I spent about 6 weeks designing and building it. I didn't realize how nice the rotisserie would make working on the underside.  I'm able to see and fix things that I'm certain would've been overlooked while laying on my back under the car. 

This photo was taken the morning I returned with the car which I believe was about 90-95% complete.  I "thought" a quick motor change, front seat would put this on the road while I completed the small things I could see wrong.  Was I ever in for a surprise!

Nice start...brings back memories.
Your pic size is fine for posting 4 pictures in one post. As long as the total isn't over 4k, you can post up to 4. Under where you are clicking the brouse button, you'll see a (more attachments) in blue, click on that up to the 4 and it'll open additional lines with the brouse button for each.

I can post the heck out of photos one at a time.  I keep getting a notice that my file is too large to post and that 4K is the largest I can post.

Here is another single picture the day after I purchased my car.  As you can see all of the day after purchase is with the sedan on the trailer. 

I waited for a year to begin this post because I know how slowly these things can go, even slower the way I work.

Terry
     I like your choice of engine and transmission.

ECode,

I also like the idea of a y block with the o/d.  I'm not too sure on the 389 rear end.  It may be too low for my comfort but can be changed later if it is indeed too low.

The car hasn't been licensed and driven since 66.  I had to remove 3 winter coats and a pair of nylon bibs from the interior.   So as to not handle the items by hand, I was using my garden rake to remove them.  Much to my surprise when I bumped the original rubber mat, I punched a hole completely through the floor. 

When I purchased it, there was only one small hole where the gas pedal bolts to it.  Now after the 8 hour return trip, I found that the entire floors needed to be replaced.  Not a big deal, more work than I thought, but still not too big of a deal or so I thought. 

A couple shots of the floors.

 

Looks like a good project. Remember, there's no prize for getting it done quickly. 

Awesome project and great car!

Thanks for all the comments and the words of encouragement. 

The other day my wife asked me if I would have purchased this particular car if I had known about all the rust problems.  I honestly didn't want to do a frame off.  Although I like having a project, this is a lot of work.  Like the saying, "How do you eat an elephant?  One bite at a time."  That's the same way I'm attempting to tackle this. 

As I was under the car to pull the motor, I saw lots of surface rust on the frame, the frame horn support on one side was missing and the other one was ripped loose and torn.  The front cross member was mangled and the welds had been broken. 

At the rear, tree remains were between the right quarter and the bumper and of course, more frame rust. 

This is how I became involved in a frame off.

A couple more photos.

After a couple hours work and 3 family members help, the front clip was freed from the rest of the car.  This would allowed me to  straighten the bent and twisted front cross member.  I know things didn't happen unless there are pictures, but I still failed to take pictures of the cross member.

After the decision to do the body off things went quickly!

Here's a couple photos of the frame after it's liberation from under the body!  Visible in the last pic you may be able to see the frame horn supports or lack there of.  Not a good picture of the front cross member but part of the damage is barely visible.

Terry, what you have is only normal in 57 Fords. They are beautiful, quick and the thing we all fell in love with here, but they do rust and they do get twisted. That's a fact. (ask me how I know that...) One bite at a time sounds like you have the right attitude! That's a quite a chunk of car and lots of parts you are handling. Don't give up, its all worth it! Cool body style and great engine choice. It will be quick with a 3.89 !

At least the frame horn's function is to hold the bumper and possible an aftermarket sway bar.  As long as the bumper hangs level, you're good to go.  The frame specs are in the factory manual so you can take a few measurements to confirm a true frame to start with.

The fame horns were straight.  The reason the supports were ripped and twisted is that someone put a chain hook into the access hole for the a-arm bushing pin.  I have seen it before.  It's a very convenient place to hook onto.  One good jerk and the support is toast/gone.

Let me try again!  If I'm on the right track this time, those braces are very flimsy (1st picture).  I removed them completely on one of my frames for radiator clearance (2nd picture).

Quote from: gasman826 on 2017-06-24 08:14
Let me try again!  If I'm on the right track this time, those braces are very flimsy (1st picture).  I removed them completely on one of my frames for radiator clearance (2nd picture).

I understand and agree.  I wanted the appearance of supports so I found a '59 in an old local wrecking yard and installed them onto the '57 frame. Of course the supports are different than the 57 supports but very few will even know they aren't original. 

Does anyone know how far back the Rear floor pan from EMS extends rearward?  Does it stop short of the 4 floor support brace?  I ask because I have the brace removed and want to replace it as soon as I can, without waiting for the new floor pan.

Terry
     I sent a message to James.  Jay

I got the answer to how far the rear floor pan extends rearward.  The EMS panel stops just short, 1/2" to 1" INFRONT of the forth floor brace. 

The EMS panels are a great match.  No hammer forming or trimming of the floor pans and inner/outer rocker panels.   I am having a little trouble with the toe boards but I suspect that is trouble I caused.  I have no problem in recommending the panels to the members. 

Terry
     I'm happy to see that you are back with us.
Jay

I'm glad to be back.  I can't change my temp password as the headings and notes are in Albanian, I believe.  That will be taken care of in good time.

Terry
    Get in touch with James again and have him fix that.   I had to change mine and the same thing happened.   He fixed it real quick.
Jay

I purchased the hood mentioned in post:  http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=7312.msg62728#msg62728.  I actually got a different hood than I mentioned in the post. There were a couple small dents slightly more than rock chips and the inner support panel had surface rust.  I selected this one as it was cleaner. I have a friend, a retired body man, who offered to take care of it for me.  That is, remove the dents and put it in epoxy primer.  I really need to update this post and show my progress which is extremely slow.

edit:  This hood also has a couple small dents from the inside.  Perhaps something was left on the air cleaner when the hood was closed.

Lesson learned!  The selection of the hood was not good.  As it was being unloaded I saw a small crack in the very edge of the hood.  Not really a bad deal, yet.  I removed the broken hood ornament to find 3 dents caused by an impact of something with the ornament.  Will find out in a few days if it was a bad deal.   

As long as the hood is not tweaked, the repairs you mentioned seem minor. Good it's just going to be in primer so you can fit check it before paint day.

A very brief update.  I've been working on this project but very slowly.  I'll have to again study how to post pictures as I've forgotten how to post more than one.  I am reluctant to resize them as I can't, and it's me, save them in original size after resizing them. 

As stated previously, I installed the 59 frame horn supports.  I hope I put them on the correct side and not backwards.

Terry..after you resize, don't click "save"............ click "save as" from the file menu or the pop up when you right click.and input whatever you chose to name it...I usually just add "resized" after the original tag. The "save as" will save your resized pic without changing the original file. After you do that, then click "do not save" on the original file/pic you downsized. The resized pic should show up next to the full size in the folder if you just added something after the original tag as I mentioned..

Rich is right.
With saving a resized pic I just add an 's' to the og pic name, so I know every pic that I resized and posted.

I enjoyed the pictures of your frame off. Mine was a 3-speed (no OD) car with 3.89 gears. I put in a OD tranny and went with 3.70 gears. With the new OD tranny, I'm thinking I would have been happy if I'd stayed with the 3.89s. The 3.70s work very well though.

Quote from: fdlrc on 2019-11-30 12:10
I enjoyed the pictures of your frame off. Mine was a 3-speed (no OD) car with 3.89 gears. I put in a OD tranny and went with 3.70 gears. With the new OD, I'm thinking I would have been happy if I'd stayed with the 3.89s. The 3.70s work very well though.

I have more pictures to post once I get it figured out again. 

Back in the day, I pulled parts out of a wagon for my sedan.  One thing was the rear axel,  Luckily it had a 3.70 gear.  It ran quite well with a Mercury 312 with an afb carb, backed by an  od trans.  For the life of me I cannot remember what gas mileage I was getting.

I will try again to post a pic and give an update on my build.

The first photo shows what I found after pulling the brake drum.  The 30 minute brake job on the rear axle required 4 hours.  I can't believe how slow I've become!

The second photo shows the headliner or more concisely the lack there of.

I had the backing plates powder coated, cleaned everything then installed new wheel cylinders and shoes. I also had the drum turned before installation.

After removing the headliner bows, I cleaned the inside of the top and sprayed it with a product called ZeroRust.  This product, they say, is not only a sealer but also a rust converter.  I'll try to edit and post a picture later.

well, I was able to post one pic.  Just ignore the stuff behind the curtain.  I used it as a drop cloth and left it there to help with dust/dirt.

As stated previously, reply #18, the front crossmember was damaged.  The welds between the top cap, the flat portion welded over the top of the U shaped portion, had been ripped loose.  The top cap was raised about 2" off it's manufactured position.  I used my bfh to return the top cap to it's proper position.  I then clamped it tight and stitch welded it.  I don't know how the Veterans Day flag got on here and I can't remove it to post the pic of the repair.

Just posting a few pics of Terrys progress on his 70A. looks great and very tidy imho!

(https://up.picr.de/41854926pi.jpg)

(https://up.picr.de/41854928bz.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/41854929mu.jpg)

he says:

Quote from: TerryThe first pic shows the dash installed.  The second and third show the side panels off the rear seat bottom.  It's easy to see why I replaced them.

Quote
The first pic is of the emergency brake assembly.  I'm still trying to figure out the last piece on the right.  I know it goes on the end of the assembly but can't figure it out.  I probably messed it up.  The second and third pics show the panels I fabricated and installed on the seat springs.

QuoteI found this tag attached to the right side of springs of the rear seat.  I never took the time to de-code it.

Terry, this pic of my 57CS floors shows where the clip/bracket goes to hold the actual emergency brake cable fitting to the front floors.

(http://up.picr.de/28905271tf.jpg)


concerning the seat tag. Like we talked before. pretty sure the 2-57 means it was made in February 57.
If I recall correctly our cars are just a few days apart and both assembled in March 57. My car also has lots of February and Marhc date matching stamps all over, so most probably this is the original seat base to your car.

I am trying to figure the best or at least how others have routed the trunk releases.  I have an electric release and also want to install a manual as a backup.  I plan to run cables through the ribs/supports in the trunk lid. 

How have others solved the problem?  Does anyone have pictures to go with the descriptions?   

Thanks for the assistance.

Terry

I'll try to get some pics later today.

Thanks. what I'm really looking for is the routing of the wires and where they enter the trunk.  I plan to mount the solenoid remotely and run cables through the inner support, unless there is a better way.

Where the wires enter the trunk will be somewhat determined by where you locate the activation button. BTW, for the button, I used a starter button, and I located it on the side panel in front of the rear seat, drivers side of course. I also had mounted a power distribution box in the trunk when I did the original wiring, and that's where the trunk release gets it's power from. Other than that, just run those wires along with the tailight wires, just stop them where the activation button is going to be. I did get some pics while I was fixing my gas sending unit this morning....just got to get them downloaded.

Some pics of a not too pretty trunk anymore.

Thanks, Rich.  I will post a picture when I finally get things installed.

Looking at that first pic, you can't see it, but I installed a small pulley to get the cable pulling in the correct direction. I think I remember using a nylon screen door roller for it, held in place with one of the hex screws.

I was thinking of running two cables. one for the manual release and one for the power release.  The manual release will terminate under the driver's side front seat.  The solenoid for electric release will be located under the package tray and both cables run through the trunk lid inner support panel.

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2021-08-20 19:17
Some pics of a not too pretty trunk anymore.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What do you expect? It's driven! That makes it a better ride!  :006:

Terry, this is my 53 Lincoln trunklid, but the 57 should be very much the same really.
I reworked the latch a little so that the activator lever and cable end actually sit hidden INSIDE the inner trunklid structure. I routed the cable inside the structure so it is invisible. on this picture you can see the cable sheath next to the structure, because it was easier routing it under one X brace and another and finally sneaking it inside the inner structure. it exits through a (inner structure) drain hole, quite close to the left hinge and is tied to the hinge with some zip ties ( leave enough play so the cable can move back and forth and extend when opening or closing trunk). from there you can route it wherever you want, under rear seat, next to rear armrest, under carpet and under front seat....

Thanks gentlemen!  My idea was to run between the inner and outer panel near the hinge, down the 45 degree support to the middle of the trunk and then rearward to the latch mechanism.  I found it extremely difficult to make the turns and stopped to get an idea of how others had accomplished the same results.  This shows there are many ways to open the trunk!  I am still contemplating my options. There can be no really wrong way to route the cables as long as the latch is released reliabiy.

let us know if you're successful! I honestly don't think it would work unless you could make a straight shot.....I would think trying to go around corners, the cable is going to get hung up on the structure...................unless, (the light just came on), you are routing a sheathed cable.

Rich, on my Lincoln I am running a fully sheathed cable, something like a bicycle shift cable. it operates nicely even though it is an old worn unit (for experimenting). Already bought a new one for like $15 or so, and it has a very slippery lining inside the sheath and I believe ss wire. it will easily go around the bends INSIDE the trunklid inner structure.
As I mentioned before, the pic above is halfway through installation. I later on shoved the sheath INSIDE the inner structure so it is totally invisible. though I had to modify the rear latch mechanism somewhat (weld on a lever and a cable sheath rest), which may be out of question for some.

I have the dash installed but now find out I have to take it back out so the windlace can be installed.  I have changed the og wire harness for another one I had on hand.  Now with having to removing the dash, again, I'm contemplating going with an aftermarket wire harness.    I want the one most easily plug and play.  Any suggestions on the harness?

I am going to install a '74 302, with PS.  Later, I may install AC.  Any suggestions on what alternator I should plan to use?  I ask this bc this will need to be answered when ordering a wire harness.

Thanks in advance!

To me, there is only one choice. Ron Francis. Top quality wire and components, made for Fords, not Chevy universal. Expensive, but I for one don't want Chinese wire in my car. Instructions are top notch........if you can read, you can wire your car. Their Express kit is made for YOUR car, no universal crap here. It'll have a serial number on it that for future reference thay can tell exactly how the harness was built (for what engine, components, tec) They use sxl or gxl wire...double-jacket cross-linked
www.ronfrancis.com

2X what he said!  None better then Ron Francis!

I began installing the wire harness yesterday.  Bc I'm still color blind, I had help with the color of the wires coming from the 62 Ford column.  I had spent an hour trying to identify wire colors w/o success so enlisted my grandson's help, 10 minutes later the wires were labeled.

The small amount that I have accomplished went very well.  One thing I have been disappointed with is that I had to tell them what column I was using, the make of the car and yet the column interface was for an aftermarket column and the dimmer switch interface was for a gm switch.  These are minor things but with the info provided, I really expected to have Ford terminals, where terminals were provided.

The kit includes a very nice modern style light switch.  It has a stainless knob that looks great but will require modification of the dash insert to use.  How have others addressed this situation with the light switch?  I really want to keep the appearance/illusion of the og switch. Perhaps keep the og switch in the dash and the new one under the dash.  Any thoughts? 

I'm really surprised about your issues with the GM connectors. My Express kit is totally Ford, Ford coloring, Ford everything. That's one reason I've been pushing Ron Francis' stuff so much. I would have been upset if they HADN"T asked what column I was using. I had to look at all my column connectors, and, in some cases, go to their FORD connector page and tell them which connectors matched up. Both my ignition switch (with 20 or so wires), and my multi-function switch were all pre-wired Ford connectors. hmmmm.??
I'm also confused as to why you had to label the wires....they should have all been numbered and printed with where they went and where they came from. The color coding is a back-up precaution. Just wondering.......is your kit actually an Express kit? Maybe a lower model that doesn't offer what the express kit does?

I am using their headlight switch, but it is a much closer match to my modified everything dash and other knobs than the OEM would have been.
I'm vaguely remembering the switch controls the opposite polarity from what I needed, but don't remember details, and I am using a later model dome light.

I labeled the wires from the column so I could match them to the RF Express kit's provided male/female connector.  I had to change the ends on the RF wires as the terminals were factory attached and fit into an included connector that match to a couple prewired aftermarket columns.  The wires provided in my RF kit are color coded and printed as to where they supply power.  All the wires on the column had male bullet connectors that plugged in individually.  I am happy to change to the "plug and play" multi connectors for the turn signals.   

The issues I am having are minor and just require a little extra effort and in my case much thought. 
 
I noticed it was a very slow day on the website so thought a comment was in order.

Yeah, our age makes otherwise enjoyable challenges a real chore sometimes, lol. I hate it when my wife has to carry the heavy stuff in from grocery shopping.
You've probably already noticed the difference in the RF quality wires..........doesn't strip as easy as the made in China stuff.
Keep us updated.
Where did you decide to put the fuse panel?

I answered all the RF questions.  RF offered a steering column connection for the column I was using.  The column plugged in and worked great.  But the GM compatible reared it's ugly head.  The furnished headlight switch is GM or GM compatible.  It was NOT even close to a FOMOCO switch.  No problem, just unpin the socket and plug the RF terminals into my FOMOCO socket and plug into my switch.  NO, NO, NO...the RF terminals are GM style and will not plug into my FOMOCO socket.  So I just took the wire cutters to the RF headlight circuit and snipped it right off.  With my handy dandy FOMOCO compatible terminal kit, I changed all the terminals to FOMOCO compatible terminals, repinned the FOMOCO headlight socket and plugged it in.  It worked fine EXCEPT the dome light feature.  The RF dome light feature off the headlight switch is again wired GM compatible.  The courtesy/dome lights work fine off the door jam switches but I couldn't get them to work through the RF headlight circuit.

I'm planning to put the fuse panel against the left air duct sheet metal swinging down for access as the Contour's did.  That'll be just left of center.  I say planning bc the dash is out of the car to facilitate the process. 

Sometime back, I spoke with a RF tech and he warned me that most of the problems they see, the customer had spliced the og harness into the RF unit.  I am planning to splice parts of my og harness into the RF unit.  It'll take some figuring to keep things Straight.  I will have more questions, ie idiot lights vs guages and Dura Spark vs coil.

Quote from: gasman826 on 2022-05-18 18:42So I just took the wire cutters to the RF headlight circuit and snipped it right off.  With my handy dandy FOMOCO compatible terminal kit, I changed all the terminals to FOMOCO compatible terminals, repinned the FOMOCO headlight socket and plugged it in.  It worked fine EXCEPT the dome light feature.  The RF dome light feature off the headlight switch is again wired GM compatible.  The courtesy/dome lights work fine off the door jam switches but I couldn't get them to work through the RF headlight circuit.

The way I read the RF info sheet the dome light runs a wire, continuously hot and another for the ground.  When the GM switch is turned on the ground is completed, turning on the light.  I thought simply running a hot wire from the panel to a toggle switch would work.  I did run two wires, a red and a white, to the dome light, just in case a second wire was needed.

And now the questions begin.

The top portion of the picture is of the og Ford light switch.  I labeled the terminals as they are on the switch so they are more visible. 

The bottom shows the diagram for GM connecter plug provided on the RF harness.  Can anyone tell which connectors to connect which wires to which terminal on the light switch so everything works?

Here is what I've determined:  "B" is the "hot" or feed; "D" is hot all the time; "R" is hot with park lights  or
headlights on (could this be for the park and tail lights?); "H" and "I" are both hot in the headlight position (one must be Headlights but which one and what's the other?).  You can see I don't know much about wiring!

Here's another one.  This time the dimmer switch.  On the left is the RF provided plug for the dimmer.  On the right is a new dimmer switch and pigtail.  on the RF connecter, the blue wire is printed Dimmer, the other two the red and the green(?) are each marked headlight. All three of the wires run directly to the fuse panel. 

Now about the Ford part:  the right wire seems to provide the power to both of the other terminals.  I believe, perhaps wrongly, the terminal on the left with two wires is for the high beam.  and the one in the middle for dimmed headlights.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

The stock Ford switch has two terminals for the "park" lights.  The terminal for "park" is for the front parking lights.  They turn on when in the park position and turn off when the headlights are turned on.  The second terminal is for the rear tail/park lights.  They are on when ever the switch is any position other then off.

B = + 12V in.
P = Front park
R = Rear tail/park
H = Headlight feed
I = dash dim and dome feed when turned all the way CW
The fuse on the rear of the switch is for the dome light feed through the door jam switches.  This fuse feeds the rheostat that dims the dash lights.

I'll proceed with that info.  Thanks for the info.  Now that you've put the info out there, I can see the references.

This attachment is a replication of the GM terminal provided with the Ron Francis kit.

Here's what I found out from the RF tech:

Beginning with the gray terminal and going counterclockwise.

Gray:   is the dome or courtesy light ground.  GM uses a fulltime hot to the light and is grounded through the
           switch
Red:    this is the hot wire for the lights and is attached to the "B" post on the Ford light switch
Blue:   goes to the dimmer switch.  The tech said to run a "jumper" to the dimmer
Tan:    parking light feed - connect to the "P" terminal on the Ford switch
Red:    this is used on the GM switch to power the taillights - Not necessary on the Ford switch
Tan:    taillight feed - connect to the "R" terminal on the Ford switch
White:  Dash lights - I don't know where it connects. It needs to run through a rheostat to dim the lights.
       
The one thing I noticed with the RF express kit is that there are no included light sockets.  20220523_200246.jpg