In spring I want to replace the oil pump in my Country Sedans' 292 Y block. I observerd that there are different designs, one obviously a geared and the other a rotary design. The pump in my 57 is of the rotary design with the flat cover ( not pictured). I have both styles here as donor units and could rebuild either one. Obviously the spring is broken on the relief plunger on the rotary one. What do you guys favor? Is one better than the other ? what about the number '42' on the geared one's tag? does that mean a 42psi relief valve ? I would like to rebuild one of these, as I feel they will be good enough for my moderate cruising needs. with modern replacement pumps we never know what junk we get unfortunately...
is there a reliable source for a quality relief spring ? which psi rating ?
(http://up.picr.de/31586354kp.jpg)
(http://up.picr.de/31586355oz.jpg)
(http://up.picr.de/31586356pi.jpg)
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I believe the Y Block geared oil pumps were used from 1954 thru 56, and the rotor style from 57 on. All the Ford FE, small block, 351W&C, 429-460s also used the rotor style oil pump, so Ford obviously felt that was a better design. (Not to mention several aftermarket oil pumps offer the rotor design for Chevys, which normally use the gear style pump). Years ago, when I worked at a high volume (mostly stock stuff) engine shop, most engines we rebuilt , we would rebuilt the OE oil pump with kits from Melling. The kit came with new rotors & a new bypass spring, you re used the original bypass valve, housing & cover. I have no idea if these oil pump kits are still available. That said, the vast majority of the old oil pumps had considerable grooves and scratches in the housing and cover plate surfaces, so on my own stuff, I always prefer to just buy a brand new Melling oil pump, although Precision Oil pumps offers a line of `Blueprinted`oil pumps for most Ford engines, possibly Y Blocks as well. Also, as far as I know, all the Ford rotor pumps had aluminum housings, it looks like your pump is cast iron, if so, you already have an aftermarket pump. Since Y Block engines have the oil pump mounted outside of the oil pump, it can be hard to prime a new oil pump. I always packed some vasoline or white grease between the rotors to help with priming. I always like to manually prime a new engine or oil pump, to ensure there are no issues. With the external oil pump, a Y Block can suck air from the seal where the oil pump tube goes into the oil pump housing.
Wow, lots of great firsthand information, thank you!
After your mentioning the repair kits I searched the net and following this Gentleman's lead
https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/OilPumpRbld.php (https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/OilPumpRbld.php)
I quickly found the kit still available from Melling. #K56
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melling-K56-Oil-Pump-Repair-Kit/132358987589?epid=230215601&hash=item1ed135df45:g:Kc0AAOSwbYZXZsDW (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melling-K56-Oil-Pump-Repair-Kit/132358987589?epid=230215601&hash=item1ed135df45:g:Kc0AAOSwbYZXZsDW)
Has anyone got experience with those new kits? are they proper quality, or made in Whoknowswheresville?
I wonder if the pump pressure could be fine tune with a different relief spring and if they are available ?! The rotor of my donor pump still looks nice.
Yes I believe the pump in the Country sedan has an aluminium case. The second pump I want to rebuild came off a 1962 Truck 292.
the geared type pump came off another 1961 truck 292, but it was in a 1955 F100, so could very well be of that origin and YOM.
After replacing the oil pump, I would want to save and rebuild the original aluminum pump of my og 1957 292 and put back in later on.
Precision oil pumps has a Y block pump, but it is the geared type.
http://stores.precisionoilpumps.com/blueprinted-melling-ford-292-312-oil-pump/
(http://stores.precisionoilpumps.com/blueprinted-melling-ford-292-312-oil-pump/)
they also have the HD distr/pump drive shaft.
http://stores.precisionoilpumps.com/ford-292-312-billet-hd-oil-pump-driveshaft/ (http://stores.precisionoilpumps.com/ford-292-312-billet-hd-oil-pump-driveshaft/)
it seems the '42' stamped on my geared type pump is just the Mellings replacement #.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melling-Oil-Pump-M-42-Ford-Y-Block-292-312-Standard-Volume-Standard-Pressure-/390972876324?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c1 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melling-Oil-Pump-M-42-Ford-Y-Block-292-312-Standard-Volume-Standard-Pressure-/390972876324?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c1)
I might as well check/blueprint my geared type and use as is. it could have been a later and low mile replacement in that F100.
Guenter
It's nice to see that you can still get those rebuild kits.
Click on the first one that you posted and you will see a person named Baumgartner
has something to do with it. Looks like our friend Baumi is involved in all kinds of business .
Now on a serious note, I wonder if anyone has had any problems with that big O ring and if it is good rubber. DON'T THROW OUT YOUR OLD O RING.. You know how so called rubber parts are junk these days. Jay
If I had known about the precisionoilpumps geared type pump I would have bought one. The geared pumps are preferred by the high performance Y block engine builders. Even the old originals are hard to find and highly sort after. Design changes weren't always to make things better, it was done for cost savings..
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2018-01-21 04:28
Wow, lots of great firsthand information, thank you!
After your mentioning the repair kits I searched the net and following this Gentleman's lead
https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/OilPumpRbld.php (https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/OilPumpRbld.php)
I quickly found the kit still available from Melling. #K56
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melling-K56-Oil-Pump-Repair-Kit/132358987589?epid=230215601&hash=item1ed135df45:g:Kc0AAOSwbYZXZsDW (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melling-K56-Oil-Pump-Repair-Kit/132358987589?epid=230215601&hash=item1ed135df45:g:Kc0AAOSwbYZXZsDW)
Has anyone got experience with those new kits? are they proper quality, or made in Whoknowswheresville?
I wonder if the pump pressure could be fine tune with a different relief spring and if they are available ?! The rotor of my donor pump still looks nice.
Yes I believe the pump in the Country sedan has an aluminium case. The second pump I want to rebuild came off a 1962 Truck 292.
the geared type pump came off another 1961 truck 292, but it was in a 1955 F100, so could very well be of that origin and YOM.
After replacing the oil pump, I would want to save and rebuild the original aluminum pump of my og 1957 292 and put back in later on.
Melling is the "industry standard" in my opinion. My FE has a Melling pump at the recommendation of one of the leading FE builders.
I run Melling pumps in all my engines. I'm using the HV model with an ARP drive in my Y. But I'd rather have a gear pump.
Good to hear that I can trust their products. I will most probably buy a rebuild kit for the rotor pump, if only for the relief spring and I can use the full kit later on rebuilding the og aluminium 57 pump. Will check my geared type pump and might use it as is with new seals for now, if it looks ok inside.
Melling, Moroso,Canton and probably others sell relief spring kits or singles if you just need to replace your broken one.
Quote from: rmk57 on 2018-01-21 18:59
Melling, Moroso,Canton and probably others sell relief spring kits or singles if you just need to replace your broken one.
I wouldn't doubt that! It's very possible.
I wonder why you are considering rebuilding your pump. Is it because of low oil pressure? If so, remember that low pressure can also be caused by things other than the pump. Regarding pressure fine tuning, the cap that encloses the spring can be drilled and tapped and an adjustment screw and lock nut installed to make the pressure adjustable. John
John, yes I am aware that low oil pressure could also be caused by worn cam/main/rod bearings. I have good oil pressure all around when cold and at 1500 rpms+ when warm but it drops at idle when hot. My engine is old and well used. another reason for servicing is that the pump is leaking some.
I could have simply pulled and inspected the og pump, but don't want to render the wagon inoperable, if there should be something wrong with the pump. It will take me 10 -14 days to order spareparts overseas and so I'd rather have a refurbished spare pump in stock to immediately replace the old one. The engine has lots of sludge build up, so it could very well also be a sticky relief plunger or broken/ worn relief spring or a worn aluminium housing. Worst case the engine might need a major overhaul anyways, but that is a different project. replacing the pump is kind of easy troubleshooting for now.
I really like your idea with the adjusting screw. very cheap and easy mod.
It's really great having all you knowledgable guys sharing your experience !
Disassembled the donor geared pump. some sludge buildup but case and cover look nice with only very slight wear marks. gears look nice too and no excessive play with shafts. the relief plunger was sticky in this one. after cleaning the sludge out it moves freely. I think this pump would turn out ok with new seals.
(http://up.picr.de/31608778pl.jpg)
(http://up.picr.de/31608779kl.jpg)
(http://up.picr.de/31608780hp.jpg)
Quote from: Hoosier Hurricane on 2018-01-22 07:02
I wonder why you are considering rebuilding your pump. Is it because of low oil pressure? If so, remember that low pressure can also be caused by things other than the pump. Regarding pressure fine tuning, the cap that encloses the spring can be drilled and tapped and an adjustment screw and lock nut installed to make the pressure adjustable. John
John
I have to admit that is a good idea. You have your thinking cap on.
OK guys, before all of you with low pressure at idle run out and put adjusting screws in your spring caps to increase pressure, remember this. The adjustment will only affect the maximum pressure at probably 2500 rpm and up. It will not affect idle pressure. Can't expect miracles from this mod.
I wish I could take credit for this tip, but Jerry Christenson from MN came up with the idea, mentioned it in Y-Block Magazine. John
Back in the days when life and cars were simpler we use to use small washers to shim the spring..
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2018-01-23 07:08
Back in the days when life and cars were simpler we use to use small washers to shim the spring..
Or run 15-40, 20-50 oil.
Quote from: Hoosier Hurricane on 2018-01-23 07:02
I wish I could take credit for this tip, but Jerry Christenson from MN came up with the idea, mentioned it in Y-Block Magazine. John
Well John....I'm going to give you credit for it anyways. You're the person that told us about it. Jay
Quote from: Hoosier Hurricane on 2018-01-23 07:02
adjustment will only affect the maximum pressure at probably 2500 rpm
I like that. 2.5k is approximately what the engine does when cruising at 65+mph for extended time. It might be really nice to have a few psi more with hot oil on the highway.
@ Jim...LOL....I could show you the stack of SS shims that I already prepared, just in case....haha.
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2018-01-23 14:07
@ Jim...LOL....I could show you the stack of SS shims that I already prepared, just in case....haha.
See how smart we are :003:
While we're talking about re-building oil pumps, i have these parts in my fel-pro full gasket kit. For the rotory style pump, is this barrel with the metal parts supposed to take the place of the input? That would put the retaining screw directly against the metal ring on the barrel. The current input is a one piece very hard rubber part, no metal.
I assume that the original rubber seal has just hardened over time. I have some here NOS and they are soft.
It seems the thick metal washer included in your kit goes on top of the seal and keeps the rubber from getting frayed by the retainer nut. possibly the metal parts in the seal help with sealing as they leave a smaller quench are for the rubber sealing to the intake tube.
Still off topic, ...but i got the rubber barrel with the metal rings in it. I'll let you know if it sprays oil down the side of the engine.
Eugene, that seal will not spray oil down the side of the engine. It is on the inlet side of the pump, therefore it sees a vacuum when the engine runs. It will allow air to enter the pump if the seal is insufficient, and may drip when the engine is not running, but will not spray.
By the way, I got your letter yesterday. Thank you. John
Good to know on both accounts. Much appreciated.