Still got brake problem

[JimNolan]

Guys,
    I installed new flex hoses on the front brakes, I honed the wheel cylinders and installed new innards. I bleed the brakes three times and it still wants to pull to the left. When I got the car it had new brakes and wheel cylinders, but it had been sitting for almost 16 years. I don't know how old the brakes are even if they do look new. The drums are fine.
   Today I backed the left shoes off more than the right and it still wanted to initally pull to the left. Sooooo
1. Has anyone had brake shoes that got hard or had problems with the shoes on only one side of the car.
2. Does anyone know a good exorsist.
3. Should I throw more money at it and get new brake shoes.
4. After shoes, what's left.
    The master cylinder has only one line coming from it and it's been rebuilt.
     I forgot, Thanks to the guy ( can't remember who ) that suggested the 20 lb brake light switch. Works great with very little pressure on the brake pedal. My wife followed me one day and said the brake lights seldom came on until I was almost to a compete stop. Now I don't have that to worry about.
Thanks,
Jim

[wolfpupsdad]

sorry to keep bringing this up , but still sounds like if everything else checks out ok , i'd have the brake drums micked for oversize and have the shoes rearched. make sure the shoes are installed in the right order , primary and secondary shoe placement. primary shoe ( short lining) goes towards the front. secondary ( long lining ) goes on the back. hope this helps.

[RAWms]

If it is to the left then I'm suspicious something is wrong on the right side.  If you replace the shoes, I would also replace ALL of the return springs and hardware.   As someone mentioned above, are the shoes properly installed?  Will they have free movement?  Something is hanging up on the right side OR there is a pressure differential.  Do you have access to a pressure gauge to insert into the lines? 

How about a dirt road test.  Take it out a low speed and climb on the binders.  Lock the wheels for 5'.  Look at all 4 wheels and determine which locked first and any sequence if apparent and lets explore that piece of data.  Which ever has the longest I would look to the opposite side.  Don't let the rear wheels off just yet has they can create left/right issues also.

A little story: I once could not get the front brakes of a project car to engage.  There was no pressure on the front lines.  It turned out my paranoia in treating break lines like an infection can get in there got me.  When I built the chassis and plumbed the brake lines I sealed (plugged) the front lines and then sealed the end in a plastic bag.    When it came time to plumb the front lines I forgot the plug I inserted.  I wound up fabricating a gauge and started at the wheels, which had no pressure, and started opening the lines and inserting the gauge and finally found my plug. 

Also as an aside, I sand paper my shoes and drums followed by alcohol before assembly.  Make sure they are all clean. 

Lets us know what is happening, r

[JimNolan]

wolfpupsdad,
    You may have something. I replaced the hub on the left side about two months ago and I remember taking the linings off and cleaning the backing plate. I didn't realize that the shoes are different sizes. I'll pull the wheels and take another look. Thanks, Jim

[Hoosier Hurricane]

Jim:

A long shot, but how are the upper A arm bushings, and are the bolts holding them to the frame tight?  I once lost the shims on my Ranchero, and the arm on the left side could shift.  When I hit the brakes, the arm shifted and caused the caster to change and made the car pull.  My automatic reaction to that was to correct with the steering wheel, and then it didn't seem to be pulling.  Also, does the car go straight with your hands off the steering wheel on a smooth level surface?  An alignment problem could be magnified when the brakes are applied.  One more thing.  My T-Bird brakes were flaky, and I took of the "Zone" shoes and put on NAPA.  Fixed the problem.

John

[RAWms]

Over night another thought came to me besides I need to get a life.  How about swapping the front drums from side to side.  Is it possible one has been machined over the years to a point it distorts differently than the other.

I once had a dial indicator setup inside a drum; a '57 btw.  By squeezing against my stomach I could get readings on the indicator.

r

[wolfpupsdad]

WELL I GOTTA AGREE WITH JOHN , IF IT AINT A BRAKE SHOE OR DRUM PROBLEM ONLY THING LEFT IS A-ARMS OR A SUSPENSION PROBLEM. TIE ROD END ETC.

[JimNolan]

Guys,
   Guess what. The brake shoes were on correctly. I readjusted the torque on the wheel bearings and adjusted the brakes again. Still pulls to the left unpon inital braking. Cleaned the drums and took a paint remover disc to the shoes also. The A arm bushings were all replaced along with the ball joints when I started restoring the car 18 months ago. I'll go back and check everything again though. Sounds like that could do it. The car tracks great. Had a real good guy align the front end about 18 months ago. The Tie rods weren't replaced because they were good. The power steering piston and control valve is new.
    I'll fool with it a little bit this weekend but then I'm going to have to take it to the ( God forgive me for saying it ) Ford service dept. here in town. The Chevy and the GMC dealerships have already screwed the hell out of me for the last 20 years. I might as well let the Ford dealership do the same.
Thanks everyone
Jim

[Ford Blue blood]

OK, all the obvious stuff has been looked at so thinking way out there.......Did you install new brake lines (hard)?  Both of my 57s have all the splitting done at the master cylinder including the switch.  Given drum brakes require more flow if the splitter for the fronts is down stream and the feed line is not on the leg of the tee there might be a slight flow restriction to the side the leg is feeding??

[RAWms]

Went back and re-read the opening thread.  "Honed" wheel cylinders I have avoided only because, maybe old school, but concerned about short life and leaking.  I'm wondering about one of those guys sticking.

On a scale of 1-10, 1 being a minimally annoying pull to 10 which is the car changes lanes when applying brakes, where are we?

r

[wolfpupsdad]

 jim , i hate to sound like a broken record but, have you had those brake drums mic'd one drum can not be bigger then .010 from the other without strting to causing the problem your discribing and a brake drum can not excess .030 oversize. if these drums haven't been turned then a shoe might be rubbing on the wear lip caused by wear on the soutside portion of the drum , is there a lip there or on the inside of the drum. you haven't made mention if those drums where turned or not. if they have i'd take em to a automotive machine shop and have em mic'd again. other then that i'm stumped, but then it's gotta be something simple we're overlooking

[JimNolan]

Everybody that has offered advice,
      I found it. Or I found 95% of it.
   Just for giggles, I jacked up the back end and checked the brake adjustment on the back. The right rear shoes were a long way from the drum. The left rear shoes were set almost perfect.
   I adjusted all the brakes, jumped in the car, got it up to 45 mph and slammed on the brakes without holding on to the steering wheel. It stopped in almost a straight line. It still favors the left but nothing like it was doing. I wouldn't mind panic stopping now. Well, I would mind but the car wouldn't go out of control if that happened.
   I've finally thrown enough money at my car that if I sold it today for what it was worth, I'd just be loosing 20,000 dollars.
Thanks to everyone helping
Jim
Wolfpupsdad, It does have the ridge. After this ordeal I'll wait until winter to install new brakes and have the drums turned.

[wolfpupsdad]

 well i'm glad you got it fixed, myself now that you mentioned it , the rears being out of adjust would do it to, i t just never crossed my mind.