Looking for measurements from Borgeson or ABS steering box owners

[JetDoc]

Before wasting $1000 on a new borgeson or ABS steering box that may or may not fit. I was hoping some of you folks that have a newer style power steering gearbox installed could share some measurements about how far box protrudes into engine bay at it's widest point, granted height has something to do with it too. My stock PS gearbox protrudes about 7 1/4 into engine bay at widest point measured from inner wheelwell flatspot directly across from gearbox. As you can see whomever dropped 460 in had to grind off gearbox corner and bolt head to clear exhaust manifold.

[Lgcustom]

That distance measures 6 3/4" on mine with an ABS box. Clearance to the exhaust is good, but I'm using Crites headers.

[JetDoc]

Thank you Lgcustom for your measurements.  Are you running a FBB or FE ? I have no problems running headers if I have to. I'll probably be forced to ditch Z-bar and run hydraulic clutch anyway. Not much room with 460 and Z-bar down there.

Thanks again.

[lalessi1]

I am installing the Borgeson now. It has EXCELLENT clearance, I can almost put my hand between it and the FPA shorty headers on my FE. As soon as I find my tape, I will measure for you.

[lalessi1]

Found the tape, looks to be about 6 3/8". My have misspoke a little on my previous comment, my engine is jacked up for motor mount change out.

[JetDoc]

Thank you also lalessi1 it looks like it may fit! Guess I know what my winter mods will be. Thank you both again !

[Tom S]

lalessi1, did you set your FE back down on the mounts yet?  With the power steering & power brake diaphragm & lines in the way near as I can tell I get 6" from the fender well. And the top rear inside bolt head on the Borgeson box is roughly 4" from the top of the frame. The top inside edge hit the stock 390 FE exhaust manifold.  See my other comments on that in this thread.
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=7579.msg64913#msg64913
I don't know what model of Borgeson box I have & keep forgetting to check the turns lock to lock.
In fact the only reason that I think it's a Borgeson box is that I've never found any pix of other power boxes that look like this one except for the Borgeson.
The 1st pic is what the dealer in Portland sent after I ask for it.
They had no clue about what it was.
In the 2nd pic note that the manifold is loose when I was trying to get it out of there & it's before I did any grinding to gain at least a minimum of clearance. The back edge of the manifold  is still tight against the head.
   

[lalessi1]

I now have my power steering operating and the engine is where it is supposed to be (I think). I have a ton of clearance between the FPA headers and the Borgeson box. My headers did hit the pitman arm on the drivers side and the frame on the passenger side. It was the two bolt flanges on the ball and socket connector in both cases so I moved the connector to underneath the car and had the headers ceramic coated again. I must confess that when I bought my car a previous owner cut and modified the mounts on the cross member. I bought another crossmember, cut off the mounts and put them on my car. I am not positive that they are in the exact original location although I tried very hard to get them correct. I had a '58 box in my car with the stock FE manifolds with no clearance issues and the Borgeson box seems to clear better than the '58 box did.

The issue I have now  (that I am addressing now) is that in using a rag joint I tried to get away without a shaft support at the base of the column. I bought a roller bearing from Unisteer that fits inside the column and supports the shaft, it comes tomorrow. The steering wants to bind at full lock now...no good.


I will be glad to measure, take pics, or whatever I can do to help. The lock to lock I found is actually less than 3 but only after everything is connected. The box itself has more than that.

[lalessi1]

Tom S, Your box looks exactly like mine as far as I can tell. Here is a pic of the clearance I have. I can get my "pointer" knuckle between the header and the box.

[Tom S]

Lynn, thanks for the info & especially those pix.  Looks like your headers make a pretty sharp downturn right out of the port.  That must make a big difference on the clearance. I'm surprised to hear that the Borgeson box clears better than the 58 box did.  We know that Ford put FEs into 58s & I did take the same measurement on a 58 that was ask for here a while back.  Lost it now but I was thinking my Borgeson box took up more space. 
Your box looks to be in the same fore & aft location as mine.  And, yeah, they look the same except I'm missing the sticker. 
With the head side face of my manifold flat on the bench I used this adjustable square to measure how thick the manifold was. With the end of the ruler square on the bench it was right at two inches.  J Potter mentioned some Hooker headers for FE's into 67-68 Mustangs that fit "like they were made for the car". I know a guy that has a loose pair of those so I'm gonna measure those & see if they will fit.
The box is now touching only at it's highest point, the top rear inside bolt that is 2 inches behind the cylinder 7 upper manifold bolt.
A ball and socket connector on your headers?  Like on OEM exhaust manifolds that use that doughnut type thing as a gasket?  I don't really know what FPA 57 headers look like.

[lalessi1]

Here is a pic of the headers. With the Hooker headers you will need to modify the crossmember. I had a set of FPA tri-wyes for a Fairlane and they fit well except they dumped into the cross member too. I sold those through the forum.


http://www.fordpowertrain.com/54-64FERP.htm


Have you considered moving the engine over? I put a 1/2" spacer between the block and the motor mount on the passenger side and bolted the drivers side motor mount up 1/2" from the bottom of the slotted holes. This moved my engine up and over 1/4". I got the header to frame clearance I was looking for, but decided to modify the headers as a better fix. I think the FPA shorties were designed for the Wurthit rack and pinion set up originally.

[Tom S]

Lynn, I sure thought about moving the engine over but didn't see a good way to do it without raising the engine or some other weird stuff.  For different reasons it didn't seem like a good idea to raise it any.
I think If I'd done the FE swap & planning to keep the stock exhaust manifolds I'd have put a recessed channel into the frame to mount the Borg box into, minimum of 1/2 inch deep.  Use a CV joint between the box & the steering shaft. I don't think it would cause a problem with steering.  I'm guessing that at the most you would lose a bit of right turn steering lock. However, as you say the box itself has more than 3 turn lock to lock that may not be a problem either.
Yes, from Jpotter's post I knew the trans crossmember had to be modified.
Here's that post:  http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=6563.0
You posted in that thread too.
With any luck those Hookers will give me some space even if they need some massaging. At least, unlike the crappy restrictive stock 390 manifold, there is open space where the box is touching now.
Just measured that 58 box again.  Inner wheel well flat spot to right inside of the the box is 6 & 3/8 inches.  Measured with a thin pocket tape so pretty accurate.
Borg box measures 6 or maybe 6 & 1/8 to top rear corner of  gearbox. Hard to get in or see in there with all the stuff in the way. Haven't been able to tell yet but maybe the Borg box sits higher than 58 boxes.
Borg box. Ha!  You guys know about The Borg? 'You will be assimilated, resistance is futile.'
Yikes!

[lalessi1]

I think the Borg (lol) is assimilating people through cell phones!

[Tom S]

I think the Borg (lol) is assimilating people through cell phones!

You may be right. I don't even have a cell phone but ex-Borg '7 of 9' can assimilate me any time she wants!  (Fat chance of that ever happening) : ( 
She's the only reason I ever watched that show.