3 speed overdrive gearbox

[fordkiwi27]

hi all. i have a 57 convertible with a 223 6 and 3 speed manual with electric overdrive. it has got some teeth missing in 1st gear for sure,and what i want to know is,is a standard 57 3 speed the same as a overdrive apart from the tailshaft unit and solenoid etc?or are they completely different?as a guy has one for sale in new zealand.thanks tim,wellington. new zealand

[custom300fe]

Yes the Trans. are the same just switch the overdrive unit onto the new one. A better idea would be to look for a toploader same box but you would get the first gear syncro. Makes for alot better deal being able to shift into first while you're still moving.

Gerry

[fordkiwi27]

cool.yep but then i would have to change diff gears and go floor shifter? i may as well chuck my cleveland and a c4 in it or find a yblock ?

[custom300fe]

fordkiwi27

You wouldn't have to change the rear gears or put a floor shift in it. The top loader is a bolt in 3 speed with NO modifications needed. The top loader refers to how the gears are put in or taken out of the case. The top loader has the access cover on top of the case as opposed to the side plate on the older trans. I did the swap on my 56 Meteor in under 45 minutes. If I can do it you can do it.

[JimNolan]

Fordkiwi57,
    It surprises me that you'd have to go to New Zeland to find parts. Since I started looking for parts to my T85 I found all the parts for a T86 you could ever want on E-bay. The price of a new cluster gear for a T86 is about $65, The price I paid for a cluster gear for my T85 was $255.
   You could buy everything you need and fix it yourself. I was scared to death to tear mine down, but after I did I couldn't believe it was so simple. All I'm doing is following the instructions on rebuild ( found on the net and in the 57 Ford Repair Manual ).
   If you did buy a transmission without the R10 or R11 overdrive, you'd still have to look at the Sun gear, and if it was bad, you'd be working on it anyway.
   I can understand you're delima when it comes to replacing the Overdrive transmission, I had to make the same choice you are. Replace a perfectly good differential or listen to the engine roar when cruising.
Good Luck
Jim

[fordkiwi27]

i now have a bigger problem,the overdrive is not working at all. have had the car at auto sparky,checked relay,governer,and i have now pulled out the solenoid. it has the ball bit on the end,it works when set up on a test bench,with the rod going in and out. the end of the rod is chipped and worn,how are these ment to look?im picking 2 flat sides and 2 semi round?so when you put the solenoid back in it turns and locks into place?jeez im half tempted to put a toploader in it now. grrrrrrrr. i would have to change linkages if i did  this and put some highway gears in the 9 inch?i did the test to see if it was a mechanical problem by puting in gear in overdrive while jacked up and it only turns one way. geez it has to be electrical?by the way guys i am in new zealand. maybe my local auto sparky deals with jap crap that just plugs into a computer

[RAWms]

Lets check a few electrical items first.   Do you hear a click around 25-30 miles per hour?  If not I would start  with the governor.  Have you taken the cover off the governor?   The governor is the unit with three screws holding the black cap on.  There is a single wire going to it.  Of course that means it is finding a ground through the transmission/engine and back to the battery.  Grounds are always to be checked.

In the governor cap you will find point contacts.  Take some 225 grit sand paper and wipe both sides of the points.  The governor with the centrifugal weights determines when the O-drive should engage.  The governor is a pretty simple and basic device that probably will only need a little clean up.  Also, I think there is a fuse on the firewall.  Is it ok?  (as an aside, I think I have a governor out in my spider ranch.  If it would be more comfortable I will go find it and take pictures before going forward.)

Been awhile since I fooled with and O-drive so right now going on memory.  Let us know what happens and I can dig out some manuals.   It sounds like your issue is an electrical issue though and not mechanical AND that is GOOD.

Good luck, r

P.S. I just re-read your post.  I think your solenoid is good.  You description of the tip other than the chip sound correct. 

[fordkiwi27]

cool. yes the auto sparkey said the governer is working and he had it apart. is there a way to test if it is working? should i jack it up drive it to reach overdrive and have someone under it and hear it click? as you can tell i dont know that much about the overdrives at all,wish i knew more.will get them to check the solenoid again and them maybe hook it up to the cars wiring but off the gearbox and see if the ram pushes in and out?could that be done?

[RAWms]

I found the OD wiring diagram.  Here is a re-post.

Below assumes the over drive electrical circuit uses a relay in the system to provide 12V to the solenoid.  In this case the governor provides a ground to the relay which in turn provides 12V to the solenoid.   If the system DOES NOT have a relay then the governor provides the 12V which may have started in 1965. 

Now to your issue.  Is the car driveable?  Are you driving the car in O-drive and instead of engaging the car only coasts?

The governor - You said Sparky checked the governor.  I'm assuming he took the black cap off and spun the governor gear.  He probably saw the weights swing out and pushed the plunger up.  The question I have did he look at the contacts?   Those contacts provide the ground for the relay then to the solenoid subsequently extending the solenoid pawl into the mechanical part of the o-drive.  Those contacts MUST be clean.  Pull the black cap and run 225 grit sand paper to clean them. 

The contacts will corrode after years of operation.  Think about how many times those contacts have closed over 50 years each time the car has reached 30 mph or the equivalent in kilometers.  Each time those contacts close a tiny spark occurs.  Every spark leaves a tiny bit of pitting/corrosion which is a dielectric and pretty soon the contacts are NOT capable of conducting enough current to energize the relay.  btw, on my last O-drive car I put a switch in the circuit to turn off this current flow when not using the O-drive.

The click you should hear is the solenoid engaging.

I would NOT have any body under the car running the engine up in gear!!!!!  TOO DANGEROUS!!  Drive
the car and listen.

Test 1  --  With the ignition switch on, is there 12V on both sides of the relay?  There should be.  If not check the fuse.  If the fuse is ok back track the wiring.

Test 2.  --  Check the kick down switch.  There should be zero Ohms across it with the ignition off.  Be sure not to confuse "zero" with infinity.

Test 3.  --  Governor test  --  Make a jumper (you will use this jumper for a couple of tests) with a switch you can control in the car and switch it on.  Unplug the governor wire.   Connect one end of the jumper to the governor.  The other end of the jumper to the Volt/Ohm meter probe.    The other meter probe to a good ground.  Put the meter on the Ohm scale and to the lowest reading.  The meter should show and "OPEN" circuit or infinity.   Drive the car.  At around 30 mph the meter should show ZERO Ohms.  That test in it self will only tell you the mechanical weights are working.   NOT whether the contacts can CARRY THE CURRENT (AMPERAGE) therefore back to the sand paper cleaning drill.  Re-connect the circuit.

Test 4.  --  Test the 12V source  --  Jumper a 12V source through switch to the solenoid 12V wire connection.  At 30 mph again switch the 12v on.  If the O-drive engages you will know the mechanical part of the O-drive works AND your o-drive issue is on the 12V source side.  Start checking fuses and back track the wiring to the ignition switch.

Sorry for the length hopefully will provide enough information to trouble shoot.  Obviously I still believe the governor is the problem area.  Good luck and lets us know how it goes.  r

[fordkiwi27]

wow! thanks for the awesome response! we lowered the gearbox a bit and took the solenoid out and the metal almost like "points" on top of the plunger is broken?i didnt even know it was broken till i went to clean the solenoid cap and there was apeice of metal stuck in it! does this earth the solenoid out or something to engage the plunger? i have a guy here in new zealand that is looking for a replacement jeez i hope he has one. as im heading to an american car weekend on thursday,this is the site if your interested in having a look at the new zealand car scene.   www.americarna.com

[RAWms]

The solenoid achieves it's ground/Earth through the solenoid case/housing to the transmission.  The two wires coming off the solenoid are: 1 - the normal energizer and the second is part of the kick down circuit.

Sounds like you found the problem.  You might take the solenoid to an electrical repair shop to fix it.  Finding another may be tough to find.

Good luck and thanks for the NZ site.  I will check it out.   r

[fordkiwi27]

it was a great weekend at americarna! sadly i had to take my 63,as i could not get the od to work. got another solenoid,everythings working. even got under it and tryed to manually push the old plunger in when running but no luck,it just pushes it straight back out again.there must be some sort of mechanical fault in the overdrive,the pawl or something. am removing gearbox this week,grrrr. oh well at least im learning a bit about them!