Power Steering- hoses and TOO FAST STEERING UPDATE

[abe_lugo]

repsoting fromthe 57 board as I know some of the Ford guys here might help also.

Well, as one of the things to redo on my 57 was the steering hose.
I have a 351W with a standard 80's Ford PW pump going to the original PS ram.
It had always been fast (feeling) as I recall. So slowing down the steering tuning it was something to achieve. I did the raise the car n the air and burb the lines, all that.

From what I read, you cannot just put a restrictor valve on the back of the pump like the chevy ones. So the Hiedt's power steering valve was the next step.

I got the valve years ago, but never installed it, I'm finally installing. but I didnt buy the custom hose kit they sell, the dont list the combo I'm doing, just Chevy ones of course). I was going to try t o get the local Performance hose place to help me out. just make a couple hose right, sounded easy...

I went in and got Nope'd right out of there.
They said I would have to bring in the pump and the rack??? I think that custom hose route it looking mighty nice now.. so looking at fittings a a build your own PS hose it.

From the Performance shop....He said because it was going from 6an to 4an and then some other fitting lingo.
I've given this shop 3 strikes, I've always wanted to work with them (and spend some money there)and just get some custom hose done. But they never seem to be helpful. Same for the some of the Naps store I to.

He did mention my hose has a restrictor built into it. I may have to figure out what hose I actual used almost 20years ago, haha.
more to come.

UPDATE
I looked it up and it looks like I have the original style 57 hose going to the new 80's style pump. I did a search for a late 80's Ford PS pump and see there are different item numbers between Bronco vs Mustang, I wondered if there is a book that contains the the amount output pressure and it would be a matter getting the right pump???

I also would need to know the output pressure on the original 1957 Ford PS pump, anyone have any one this info?
This is the key info I need.

Anyhow any help or nice stories of how you solved this would be awesome.
Also Im mainly concerned with keeping what I have, maybe getting a new pump, but not going any other route at this time. Or just figuring out how to adapt that Heidt's valve.

[abe_lugo]

updated above instead.

[RICH MUISE]

Can't help much with your specific questions.........my setup is totally different. I did make all my own hoses  using Airquip braided ss hose and standard fittings where I could. For special adapters, such as metric to an6 that I needed, I used www.purechoicemotorsports.com. They are in Lake Havasau, Az. Any plumbing fittings you need for any of our systems, they will have. They are the best source particularly in the area of adapters. Great people to work with. Both son and dad are very knowledgeable and helpful.

[81TTA]

According to another member here, the 57 Eaton pumps have a relief pressure of 700psi : http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=8639.msg83904#msg83904  I've seen similar numbers quoted on 50's Eaton pumps from other sources as well.  Also from what I've read, the later pumps from the 70's/80's run between 1200 to 1400psi. 

All of these represent the maximum pressure the pump can supply.  But, unless there's a problem or you're running the steering to either end of the travel, you shouldn't see pressures that high.  I think the issue you describe of "fast" feeling is more related to the flow in the system.  Restrictors are used to reduce the flow so that things "slow down" a bit.  I don't know if the flow rates of various pumps has been documented anywhere.  And, you'd want to avoid putting a high restriction on an oversized pump that would just heat things up and likely not last long.  I don't know where to get the data to figure out the trade-off, though.

I feel your pain on getting power steering hoses made.  When I installed my system, I used hoses ordered from one of the online places.  Didn't take one year before they were blistering and leaking.  Tried to find a local place to have them made.  And this is in the Detroit area where you can't drive more that a few miles without passing some sort of automotive or industrial supply/repair place.  I thought the worst would be having to pay a premium for some titanium-lined hoses that cost 5x what the online hoses cost and would outlive the car.  Instead, like you, lots of "nopes".  Either the hoses were too small relative to what they normally made or they didn't make the hoses in-house but ordered them (probably from somewhere online!). 

Finally found an old-school Napa that still had the equipment to make hoses.  No problems with those years and many miles later.  If I had it to do again, I'd follow what Rich did and make my own.

[RICH MUISE]

I've got 5 of those airquip hoses on my steering pump > hydroboost > Rack. Gets expensive going the braided SS with SS fittings. 10-14 per fitting (x2) and about 10. per foot on the hose itself, but 5 years and 48k miles = no issues with any of them.

[gasman826]

I've never had a problem with my local NAPA store making PS hoses and I've combine some odd stuff.  It is easiest if I take in the old hoses or at least the hose ends.  If not the hose ends, then take the pump to them to confirm the fitting type.  I also have AN fittings and stainless braided wire over Teflon lined hoses.  Expensive...but they are repairable if they ever wear out.  I have bought a few online hoses and replaced them after a year...maybe two.  I have used '57 to '97 Ford PS pumps on original style '57 PS and on Cavalier style R&P conversions with no restrictor valve and no 'fast' steering issues...must be just lucky.  GM OEM pumps are typically higher pressure.  If one runs a typical, factory GM PS pump, there very well could be issues...thus the flow/pressure valves that are available for factory GM pumps.  If one uses a GM style Saginaw pump from an aftermarket supplied kit going on a Ford, the pressure/flow is customized by the manufacturer.

[abe_lugo]

Thanks guys.  I will report back.   I found the place called the Hose-man.  They specialize in making custom hydraulic hoses will see what they can offer. They also have AN fittings. I will bring my pump along just to not make multiple trips.
There is also MR Hose and Hose King.  Go figure they are all about 2hr round trip for me.  In La going to Montebello is a drag. Only about 24 miles.  But regular traffic is back and I have plan accordingly.

Great comments thought.  And test I will end up jumping on a Brogeson conversion eventually.  I just don't like the notion of the the shortened column and ragjoint in the footwell.  I guess I have to see more pics.

[abe_lugo]

@gasman826  for which application was your pump used in the swap?  Mustang or Crown Vic? I found this tidbit of info today

May help others
"It should also be noted that the power steering pumps also vary depending on what vehicle they were installed on. Trucks and Crown Vics with steering boxes use a similar pump, but they are a much lower pressure higher volume pump. Cars like the fox bodies with their rack and pinion steering use a high pressure lower volume pump. You should never swap them between vehicles."

I actually need to pull my pump and will also make sure I have a Mustang pump no the Crown Vic type,, its been so many years I cannot recall.

[gasman826]

1)  '57 Raunch Wagon had an Eaton pump ('62-'64 vintage) with '64 Galaxie PS components.
2)  '57 Raunch Wagon also ran a '97 E250 351W pump with '64 Galaxie PS components.
3)  '57 Custom with '76 Lincoln Saginaw pump with Saginaw hydraulic brake booster and Cavalier style rack & pinion.

[abe_lugo]

thanks for the info!!

[abe_lugo]

Just an update on this.  Though have not gotten to fully drive the car.  I loved it out to switch the cars around.
Before that ended trying cutting the spring trick. The Fox body Mustang guys do this as a mod for a "too fast,sensitive" steering when they do other mods and use and SVO rack. 
So you basically pull the piston out with a magnet and cut the spring to a fixed size and file it flat. 
I did this and refilled reservoir and bled the system while the car was running and wheels in the air. 

All I have to say when I moved the car out and steering worked well.  It was not noticeably fast as before.  Such that, it was normal feeling.  So.  I'll post the link for where I got the info in case anyone needs further reading. 


Here is the link https://forums.corral.net/threads/power-steering-pump-spring-mod-mfe.1112293/

[abe_lugo]

Hi guys.  Had a wierd hiccup doing about 65-70 on the freeway. 
The PS pump cover blew off and showered the inner fender and engine with PA fluid. White smoke everywhere.  It's was the best. 

Anyhow as pulled over and filled what I could on the pump. And made sure the cap was on well. 
After driving later it gave me a deal PS pump feeling.  So I pulled over on this one and check and the cover was on and the fluid level was good.

I think my pump is either starting to fail. Or back pressure buildup is too hogh for running the Ram. Even after slowing down the pressure.

I have a SBF 351w with a serpentine setup.  I think I want to either try to adapt the original yblock style pump.  Or find brackets and do 60's style pump like the borgeson one some posted recently.

I think the serpentine pull-ups will be a challenge.  I think I can swing it. 

Thoughts?

The engine and car drove like a champ.  But the pump kills it.

[gasman826]

I had a 351/408W in the Raunch Wagon with the serpentine belt and later model pump ('97).  My PS was off a '64 Galaxie.  No flow control was added.  This system drove great for several years of spirited driving and is still going in New Zealand.  Fords PS systems are considered by some as 'low pressure'.  The GM crowd may need flow/pressure control but I think the Ford systems may not need pressure/flow reduction.  If the cap fell off, oil would blow out.  New caps are available if your original is worn and not locking in place.

[abe_lugo]

The cap blew off or seemed to the first time.  The second time the pressure felt like it went away.  It might be the end of the pump. 
On the street the pump does fine no issues. 
Maybe it's getting hot at highway speeds? 
I think bought that other pump and have it stashed away. 

Another thought. It the pulley diameters.  Maybe my pulley is under sized so the speed is faster.  I have to check how much space I have. 

I'll check around for serpentine pulley sizes.

[KULTULZ]

I also would need to know the output pressure on the original 1957 Ford PS pump, anyone have any one this info?

This is the key info I need.

The SPEC will be given in the 1957 WSM.

If using a later pump, you would have to determine if THOMPSON, SAGINAW or possible CSII.

Those SPECS will be given in the correct year WSM. Usually, there is more than one spec pump for a model year and different rated springs are available as SERVICE PARTS to go where you want to go. Final pressure would need to be verified with a pressure test gauge.

If using a remote pressure control valve, you will want to use some type of cooler as the valve will heat the fluid. You can use a pulp thermometer in the bowl opening to check temp after driving. And consider using some type of filter.