Strange windshield wiper problem

[RICH MUISE]

This probably falls into the original vs. custom discussion we were having regarding options, but here's my next challenge. I went to the 96 Mustang steering wheel/column to get as many controls as I could off the dash and console. I want to use the wiper controls that are now on the column, but to do so the guys at Ron Francis wiring tell me I can only do that if I am using the 96/97 Mustang wiper motor. I looked at one in a wrecking yard and I think it can be done. The motor will have to be located inside the cowl and I also want to replace the pully system with hard rods. I like the idea of both those changes. What I need to find out from a running Mustang is what the angle of sweep is as compared to the 57.If both cars are close enough in that sweep, I'll try to do it. I don't imagine the Mustang wiper motor has any way to control the angle of sweep. Does anyone have a 96 or 97 Mustang they can measure the sweep angle for me?

[Frankenstein57]

You also need to see if the wiper motor crank goes around and around, or back and forth. Mark

[RICH MUISE]

I WASN'T EVEN AWARE THAT SOME WENT TOTALLY AROUND, THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP. i ALSO NEED TO FIND OUT IF THE PARK POSITION OF THE BLADES IS LOWER THAN THE NORMAL WIPE.

[rmk57]

 I think they all rotate 360 degrees. It's only the early ones that swing back and forth, like a vacuum unit.
Boat wiper motors work the old way,plus you can change the sweep angle and the park position.

[RICH MUISE]

I'll have to get a really good look at in in a wrecking yard. The 360 thing actually shouldn't be a problem as I was figuring on using the complete setup, and if it is 360 I'm also thinking that would mean the park maybe is a mechanical stop. I'm also figuring on a little sheetmetal work in the cowl and wiper shaft areas and maybe some custom wiper arms if I can't change the larger mustang shafts to the 57 ford size.

[wildhog]

RICH, A GOOD FIX FOR YOUR PROBLEM, FIND A 58 FORD AND CUT THE MOUNTING AREA OUT OF THE COWL UNDER THE DASH, GRAFT THAT INTO YOUR 57 COWL, THE 58 MOUNTS UNDER THE DASH AND USE A ARM SYSTEM AND NOT CABLES. THEN YOU CAN BUY A ELECTRIC WIPER THAT WILL FIT. I USED A 61 FORD. THEN I MODIFIED MY DEFROSTER TUBES TO CLEAR THE WIPER MOTOR. THIS ALSO CLEANES UP UNDER THE HOOD AREA,BY REMOVING THE WIPER. I WILL TRY TO POST SOME PICTURES. TOM

[RICH MUISE]

Tom..Great info. I wasn't aware the 58 was different. I'll look for a 58. Sounds like one of those things one should grab as you find em as there aren't many 58's out there. My floor pan came from a 58 that was here locally in a junk yard for 20 years but after they cut the floorpan out fo me they crushed it. I almost felt guilty.However, the 58 doesn't solve the problem with my original reason for doing this, which was to be able to use the wiper control handle on the steering wheel/column I'm using, requiring the use (according to Ron Francis) of the mustang wiper ass'y. Any electrical geniuses out there that can confirm what they are telling me?

[Ford Blue blood]

Rick look at the wiper motor for the 96.  I believe there will 3 - 4 wires only.  One will be a ground or a common, one will be the park signal and two will be speed.  The thing you need to make the older motor run with the new switch is the control box the switch feeds.  This box does the intermittent function as well as speed/park functions by controlling a couple of relays.  Go to a friendly dealership and ask to look at their service manuals for the year and look at the wiring diagrams, they will help you figure out what wires will need to be hooked up to make the motor run.

Not all electric motors were roundy round, some were back and forth like the vacumn.  5, 6 and 7 Chevy is a good example.  Those motors do bolt on and use the stock 57 Ford wiper control switch.

A third option is to go with an aftermarket system that operats much like the systems used in British sports cars.  The motor drove a cable in a steel tube (much like brake lines) to a small gear box for each wiper (3 of them on MGBs) back and forth to give the sweep.  Orienting the gear boxs could give you left to right, right to left, out to in or in to out.  They are in various car mags and work really well.  I have used them in two cars I built for customers and they are still humming along.

[RICH MUISE]

Bill, if I understand you correctly, I can do the 58 arm setup with a 61 wiper motor, as Tom suggested, if the 61 motor uses the same number of wires the 96 does, and all I'll need is the control box that the switch (control lever on my mustang steering column) feeds? I guess I'm not sure which motor you meant when you said "the thing I need to make the old motor run", I assumed you were refering to tom's setup. If that's the case you couldn't ask for a better solution.

[Frankenstein57]

There have been a set of 58 arms and bezels on ebay for a couple of months, I thought he was a bit pricey at 50$ I found a guy parting out a 58, and got them for 25$ Then I bought an aftermarket electric motor, works and fits nice. The 58 defroster duct was made from stiff cardboard, we tuned it up with a little fiberglas repair, and seamsealer.  Mark

[smurfee]

  As stated the 57 chevy motor will bolt right up & operate from the original knob & just a a 1 wire hookup like on my 57 custom, DON

[RICH MUISE]

Tom, does the 58 setup in your car with the 61 motor go back and forth or 360? I'm still not sure what Bill was telling me in his post, if he doesn't see this I'll send him a p.m.

[Frankenstein57]

Rich, if you are trying to use stock57 or 58 arms and stock bezels, your motor needs to go back n/forth. If you are modifying the entire cowl, linkage and arm assembly then you can go round & round. I just went through this with my 58, and bought 58 stuff for my 57.  Mark

[Ford Blue blood]

Rich you are on the right track.  The control box will have outputs to the wiper motor.  The 61 will have (I've not looked at one so this is an educated guess) wires to give complete circuits for two speeds, park and of course the return.  You need to determine if the return is fed by 12V or goes to ground.  My guess is it is 12V and the two speed wires and the park go to ground in the stock 61 setup.  The late model control box outputs will need to be modified to comply with the wires from the motor. 

I know this may sound like mud but it is hard to explain without being able to draw pictures and get feedback from you and not knowing your depth of knowledge of control circuits and electronics.  I'll be happy to try a different approach if I confused you, just let me know.

[RICH MUISE]

Bill: My knowledge of circuits is zero at this point. I had planned on either doing a lot of reading or taking a course at the local college on automotive wiring before I installed my new wiring. So,yes, I'm totally confused  on your explanation, but that's ok at this point because of where I am on the build. I am trying to get all the bodywork on the car finished and painted by fall and I was thinking ahead to the cowl area and what modifications I would be doing, thus the wiper problem. At this point I just need to determine what can be wired to the mustang wiper control, so I don't do a lot of accomodating sheetmetal work only to figure out later it wouldn't work electrically. Your input has been a ton of help in getting me to that point. I'll try to get Tom to verify the wiring on the 61 motor. Thanks again