Update on Business Coupe Rear Glass Conversion

[Ford_Crazy]

Some of you may know that I converted the rear glass in my 70A to a business coupe configuration (70D).  Forum members need to know that this conversion in the biggest pain in the a.. you could imagine.  John's conversion kit is perfect.  The problem is with the Dennis Carpenter repop gaskets.  They are not molded like the originals and the gap for the glass is way too thick.  I went through three sets of gaskets at $50 a set and two sets of glass.  I finally had to go to special made thicker glass.  I also had to epoxy the gasket to the back side of the glass.  The rear quarter windows are in now and look great. Don't try this unless you have access to a good therapist...   

[JimNolan]

Crazy,
   I went to the Under Construction photos and looked at your car. I just thought I'd let you know how nice I thought it was. You'll have fun in that car. Well, I'm off to breakfast and looking forward to the last NASCAR race today. I understand the problems you've had installing the rear quarter windows and I think you'll find that the biggest problems you have in restoring will end up being the greatest points of pride when you're done. Good luck, Jim

[Ford_Crazy]

Thanks for the nice comments.  My car is coming out better than I had hoped.  I'm about $3,000 away from finishing it (don't know long that will be considering the economy).   The bumpers will be back by the end of December.  The headliner and glass should be in by then also. I have duct tape on the original front seat covers and the exhaust consists of two Thrush glass packs with no tail pipes.  I've been driving the car around the block sorting out little details.  I can't believe how smooth the ride is with the 6 cylinder springs and the big block. Ford really upgraded the ride on the 57s compared to the older models.  By-the-way, I punched it from a slow roll in first and the right rear tire went up in smoke (original 3.70 gears).  Just like the old days, only better...

[RICH MUISE]

Thanks for the heads-up...I'll check my new 70D seals against the glass I already have...I still need to get new glass cut for the smaller size...fortunatly I have procrastinated on ordering them, so I still have the option of thicker glass. My windows are grey smoke tinted..do you happen to know if the thicker glass is available in that tint? I wonder if the other guys that have done it already had the same problem...you're the first that I've seen to bring it up.
Also..glad your pleased with the ride the 6 cylinder springs are giving you. I didn't want a stiff suspention, so that was what I ordered when I replaced my springs figuring I could always beef it up with air shocks or whatever if I had to.   Rich

[Ford_Crazy]

You need to make the glass fit as tightly as possible in the widow frame. What I did was buy a piece of flat white plastic about 1/4" thick.  I traced the window frame opening in cardboard, added the depth of the gasket to the cardboard tracing and transfered the pattern to the plastic.  I then put the Dennis Carpenter gasket around the plastic and mounted it in the window to see if it needed to be trimmed or expanded.   I eventually wound up with a piece of plastic that was a perfect fit with the gasket in place.  Interestingly enough, it was almost exactly the same size and shape as the pattern in John's kit. I then took the plastic to a glass shop and ordered thicker glass to fit the grove in the gasket.  I believe they had to laminate two pieces of glass together to make it right.  Once I had the glass, I used 5 minute epoxy to glue the gasket around the glass on the inside.  I used large black paper clip type clamps from Office Depot and duct tape to hold the gasket in position while it dried.  You don't need to glue the outside edge of the gasket to the glass.  It will lay flat once the inside is glued.  I am very happy with the results, but didn't think I was going to get it to work and almost gave up a couple of times.

[RICH MUISE]

Ford crazy....what you were saying about the seal channel being to wide.....I just checked the trim and sealant manual (page 185), and I'm guessing it is suppose to be wider because the window is suppose to be set in the seal with a sealant, and also there is suppose to be a "tape" used on the outer flange of the seal to stick it to the body window frame. That would make it's assembly basically the same as setting your wing window into it's frame. I had used a dow corning rubberized adhesive/sealant for that and it worked great..ended up being just like a flexible rubber molded seal when it was done. The factory manual instructs to use sufficient sealer to make a complete seal, wiping off the excess. This is done before the window and seal are assembled onto the car. They give part numbers for the sealant and tape, but i'm sure they're useless at this time being replaced with higher tech products...I can find the dow corning product number I used if anyone  wants it...as far as the tape goes I guess we'd need to look for a double faced tape that adheres to rubber as well as paint and will hold up to outdoor elements. I'd look at locktite double faced "extreme tape" for starters.  
Just so I'll know what to watch for, what happened that you went thru 3 sets of seals?Rich
Therapist? working on my '57 is my therapy...not sure it's working though....maybe that's why it always seems when I log on there are a dozen or so on and 5 minutes later they're all gone!

[Ford_Crazy]

I tried all sorts of tape with no success.  The rubber in the Carpenter seals is too thick and not molded to the shape of the glass or the window frame.  There was no way I was going to find any tape that would hold the gasket flush against the glass, especially around the bends where the gasket puckers up.  Also, the glass channels are too wide for standard auto glass which causes the gasket to move around even more.   I'm sure there are a bunch of different ways to make this work, but I'm glad it's over.

[fordaholic]

Guys: This is my first post on your excellent site. So don`t beat me up. I have been following it for over a year. I just had to coment on this topic. You are absolutely corect. Denis Carpenters seals are off. I have a real 70D that the previous owner put new Carpenter seals in ; I actually today removed the quarter windows (car is under total frame off restoration). Studying the seals , I can see that they are not moulded rite at the sharp corners, and appear to be a  sloppy fit. So my coment is : just make the best of it. It`s our only option is it not?    Again ; guys you have a great site here and I will have a lot of questions as time goes on. Hope you don`t mind me askin.   thanks   Gary       

[RICH MUISE]

Thanks for the input Gary. You're right..with our 57's almost everything is single sourced so we usually have to live with what we can get. I don't know if anyone else produces these seals...maybe Steele Rubber? when you removed the seal/glass from the car, was the glass bonded to the seal with a sealant? I have never tried it, but I'm wondering if you can reform rubber with a heat gun without destroying the composition of the rubber, like you can reform plastics. I'm thinking not, but I don't know.

[Ford_Crazy]

I been working with repop parts for a long time and sometimes you have no choice.  I'm not knocking Dennis Carpenter.  Actually, I'm glad they have the seals or I wouldn't have been able to make the 70D quarter window conversion at all.  My post was to inform Forum members that this swap is not like changing tail light lenses. It looked easy to me until I got into it.  

[fordaholic]

To ansewer your question Rich. No there was no sealer anywhere. I have had worse fits than this in the past. I am sure with a little urethane on the inside against the glass and a little goop on the outside and a slit with the utility knife here and there it will fit just fine. In my case it`s nothing to worry about for a year or so when the car starts going back together. And also I am not finding flat with Carpenter. Without them I would be as I was a couple years ago when I restored a 66 Fairlane Wagon. Got everything new but had to live with the old original ruber  in the side glass. Could not find replacement ruber anywhere.  Gary  Newmarket Ontario

[RICH MUISE]

I had hoped to have my new glass cut by now for the rear windows but my daily driver has been chewing up any extra '57 dollars. Are we all alike?...I love working on my '57..hate working on the car I depend on for daily transportation..too often gets ignored. last month a new radiator and tranny speed sensor, this week new cv joints,rotors, calipers and shoes.and with xmas on the way, probably won't be getting any '57 "toys" soon. Anyway I was looking at the new 70D seals and I'm not really anticipating any problems at all if I use the dow-corning 795. When I get to it, I'll get photos and ley you all know how it worked. I've used the d-c 795 on glass to metal, but not rubber to metal..should work but we'll find out.
Gary that's a great looking wagon you built, 66-67 fairlanes are one of my favorites.  Rich

[JPotter57]

Rich, my daily is a `61 Ford F100, so I dont mind working on it either.  I gave up modern convenience for a truck that I loved.  Wouldnt trade it for anything, well, except maybe a `51 Ford F-1 truck.

[JPotter57]

Exactly how thick is the glass anyway?  Before I spend money on it, I would like to order the right stuff.  Thanks in advance...

[Ford_Crazy]

I'm not sure of the exact thickness, but it looked to be about 1/4".  I took the Carpenter gasket to my glass shop.  They measured the groove and ordered the glass themselves.  They had to make the glass out of two panes to get the glass to fit the gasket.  PIA, but it worked.