EMS Patch Panels

[JimNolan]

Rideau 500,
     No apoligy necessary on my part. We all make mistakes. I'm sitting here holding $2027.50 worth of EMS invoices and wondering why I paid a very good body man 22K just for labor and bought the very best replacement metal on the market and my fenderskirts don't fit. Maybe I just don't deserve fender skirts that fit. Maybe if I were a better person I'd have fender skirts that fit. Ya think? Jim

[BAMA_57]

Jim, I have a set of fender skirts that don't fit my original car. I bought them from a guy who said they didn't fit his because he used the lower patch panels (not sure who's) so I figured they would fit my car since it was original. Turns out they didn't. They are reproduction skirts. So that may be your problem. Do you know if your skirts are original?
Ron

[RICH MUISE]

Rideau 500,
     No apoligy necessary on my part. We all make mistakes. I'm sitting here holding $2027.50 worth of EMS invoices and wondering why I paid a very good body man 22K just for labor and bought the very best replacement metal on the market and my fenderskirts don't fit. Maybe I just don't deserve fender skirts that fit. Maybe if I were a better person I'd have fender skirts that fit. Ya think? Jim

Jim,Jim,Jim...You didn't forget to sacrifice a virgin to the GODS OF RESTORATION did you? Or make a donation to the Amarillo '57 Ford Restoration Fund. Either could explain your situation.   Rich

[JimNolan]

Ron,
  I have one set that has the lever for clamping up with slots on each lip side and I have a set I just bought off an older restoration that has a bolt that you tighten at the bottom for clamping of the skirt with metal tabs on each end that you bolt from the bottom.
   It would be my luck to have bad skirts like you're talking about and end up looking like an ass on here complaining about EMS. But, since both skirts are identical in fit I just assumed it was the fender opening that was wrong.
  In any case, I'm through crying in my beer. EMS still puts out the best panels my body man thinks you can buy. That'll have to be good enough for me. Tomorrow I'm going to start laying up metal to fill in the gap on my fender skirts ( won't take much), have my body man weld in new metal, repaint and keep going. I'm too afraid to go down the highway the way they are now. Jim

Rich,
   Here all this time I thought if you threw enough money at something you'd get what you paid for. I didn't sacrifice a virgin but I sacrificed my kids inheritence. I'm restoring a 63 Galaxie right now that's going to put the fit and finish to shame on the 57.  (No rust, period ) the kind of car you hear about but never have seen. The sad news is I have no emotional ties to the 63, I wish I'd never have started it now. Jim

[Ford Blue blood]

Jim a 63 1/2 was my first car after I got back from Nam in 65, I have many emotional ties to the 63 so send it my way....

[ems customer service]

i would like to make a point,  i am not trying to pick on or insult rideau 500. we do not take this conversation as a attack on us personally,but we are  trying to provide challenging conversation. 


1 Not sure what you are saying here. The outer 1/4 joins the inner 1/4, wheel tub and tail pan. The inner 1/4 joins the outer 1/4, wheel tub, trunk floor and tail pan. They are all tied together and if one piece is screwed up it will all be out of whack.

ems)  the inner 1/4 does nothing to insure the location of the outer, other than a flimsy tab to the inner tub the only hard point would be the tailpan which is not enough to locate the inner 1/4 so th eouter could be located.  the outer 1/4 should be located first 1) it is a outer panels that can be seen  and its location will be guided by the tailpan and the wheel tub and wheel opening( i am speaking of only replacing the rear 1/4 for discussion) the inner will follow the outer 1/4 the inner has the ability  to adjust some for movement of the outer 1/4.

2 I guess I got confused here because I have my body on a rotisserie. If I understand you correctly you are going to weld your flange to the bottom of the tail pan in a T. That would mean lying under the body and welding over your head. If the part was made as original you would be welding sideways which is easier and IMHO I do not think any of your groups would have any issues with doing it as original.

ems: i am confused now also

3 and 4 Two quotes. "we are stuck with the tooling that we have for sometime" and "an then improve from there". I am confused again, which one is it?

remember at the start of of our 57 ford program the customer base we had indicated the downward spot weld flange was not required.  1. since were using 110volt mig welders and not spot welding it was a mute technical issue.  the downward flange is more of a oem looks issue than a fit. example custom guys who bag and slam there cars cut off these downward flanged so they can get there cars lower.  so some times we just can not win when 50% of the customers want one thing and the other 50% want the other way.  just my fault!


another good example is the 3/4" offset flange we put on most panels so it can slip under the mating panels. 50% want this 50% do not.  easier for me to put on then for you to but if you have to cut it off yes it is a pain, but if you need it, well?

there is always a budget to be considered when producing a part and ability to get good parts to copy from and other production issues including customer acceptance. when we can improve part we will. when we should improve the part it gets improved or withdrawn from the sales dept.


6 The easy absolute answer is do not try to reinvent the wheel. Make the panels the way Ford made them and everyone will be happy. 

ems:  someone will complain about something they always do

[RICH MUISE]

EMS..."make the panels the way ford made them"...just as a point of curiosity I was wondering if ford ever actually produced repair panels, or if they have always been secondary market? For instance, we know the cars were produced with one piece rear fenders(except for the inner tailfin area)...did ford ever make front or rear 1/2 panels for repairs? or did they ever make front fender caps and the like?  If they did, is any of that tooling ever still usable or available for licensed secondary market manufactures to purchase? I guess I am asking if tecnically speaking there is such a thing as oem repair panels. just curious.
Also it would be great to see some pics of '57 tooling and/or pics of actual '57 parts being made. Rich

[ems customer service]

ford did offer rust repair panels via its dealers, they were slip over design you can still find these at swap meets with a ford p/n kind rare,  vs a regular crash repair which was the normal nos version.

although the ford slip overs seem to be a better quality then other slip overs  i do think they were made by a supplier

[ems customer service]

Jim, I have a set of fender skirts that don't fit my original car. I bought them from a guy who said they didn't fit his because he used the lower patch panels (not sure who's) so I figured they would fit my car since it was original. Turns out they didn't. They are reproduction skirts. So that may be your problem. Do you know if your skirts are original?
Ron

thank you for your comment

[JimNolan]

EMS,
   Just talked to my body man, he said not to mention his name if I was going to criticize you. He doesn't want you mad at him. He claims that after all the Jap Junk he's had to work with he'll be happy to keep using you.
   It's good that you take criticizem personally I guess. Shows that you care about what people think about you. Can you imagine a little Chinese guy reading unfavorable comments on a product he made. I bet he'd laugh his ass off. Americans so funny.
   I hope you can use this website and the charactors on it to improve you product when you can and help us have a better understanding of the production methods and practices. You've answered a lot of questions I've had and feel you're a definate asset to have on this forum. Jim
  (PS) As for my criticism about the wheel opening and my fender skirts, did you notice I haven't said anything about the headlight buckets, front fender upper caps, lower front fender pieces, rear quarter inner braces, every row of floor braces you make, inner and outer rocker panels, four front floor pans, inner rear fender panels, trunk panels and about every rubber product and gasket you sale. I noticed that the $2027.00 worth of invoices I mentioned earlier didn't cover most of what I ordered from you. The best I remember there was over 4K worth of products I bought from you and was absolutely tickeled to death with. I figure I've got a nice looking 57 and some of the credit goes to you. All criticism is good if the intent you give it is good. That's the part you should remember when I make a post. Jim   

[Hoosier Hurricane]

I was looking in the '57 shop manual last evening, for other information, but wandered into the body repair section.  They talked about repair panels and replacement panels available at the parts counter.  They described the process of installing a patch panel, and they told how to cut out the damaged section and fitting the patch panel and flush welding it in.  I could not be a slip over panel and fit correctly if flush welded.  Interestingly, they talked about replacement fenders on the T-Birds, and stated that if the damage was not total, you would be better off to get a new fender and cut it as required to make a patch instead of replacing the whole fender.  John