service bulletin info

[canadian_ranchero]

here is the first one for you guys.in april 57 ford stoped putting the one piece heater/radio/clock instrument panel bezel on the assembly line,and discontinued the part.went to the three piece one.this one looks like US only.have never seen one on a canadian car

[JimNolan]

Canada,
   Apparently, the one piece dash bezal was used along with the three piece bezals and you got whatever the assembly line installer pulled from the pile. Because, we all know that the thee piece bezals were used on the very first cars assembled also. I'd think the one piece bezal was the oddity. Your information tells us at least that they had a date to stop using the one piece bezal.
   This whole deal about bezals, ashtrays, mirrors, power steering rams, emblems etc. just reafirms Mr. Holts statement that whatever it took to keep the line running was the criteria used by the Ford Motor Company. This has been hard pill for me to swallow. I'm used to precision machining, exact analogy and yes-no, black or white conditions. When my kids were growing up and they did something wrong I'd say " what on earth made you do that " the answer more times than not was " I don't know ". Now I know where they got that from, Ford Motor Company. Jim

[Hoosier Hurricane]

JIm, this type of thing started back in the Model T days, carryover parts from the previous years, different vendors making different looking parts, cars shipped with parts missing and making the dealers finish the car before sale, etc.  My own T is titled as a 1922, but the engine serial number says it's a 1921.  But maybe in those days the car was titled the year it was sold and mine was in a dealer's stock until '22, that could easily happen.

John

[JimNolan]

John,
   I'm accepting all this information I'm finding out. But, I don't like it. It was my understanding that when you got to the Concours type cars every compontent on the car was date matched, bolt heads had to be aligned a certain way that the factory did it, paint overspray had to be visible in certain locations, etc.
   It's not that there was changes and different year compontents used, it's that I thought all this stuff was documented. You watch Barrett-Jackson and the host will walk around a car and point out that this car doesn't have the overspray at a certain place on the engine so it is not period correct. The way I take it from that is that every car of that model produced should have that overspray at that location or it's not right. So, the whole thing comes down to documentation, and to have documentation you've got to have a predetermined effort to make each car the same.
   Every year they have these car shows where the most prestigous people take the best examples of a car to be judged. ( You've seen these shows on TV. You watch them five minutes, get bored with cars you never heard about and turn the channel back to wrestling.)  I know the judges at these car shows have a lot of information in their head. You've got to think some of these judges die of old age. So, to have a car show year after year the discrepencies of a peticular car has to be documented for the next judge to go by. I'd like to find that documentation on a 57 Ford. Jim 

[RICH MUISE]

Interesting point on the documentation and if there is in fact anything documented. In the discusion we had on the gold inserts,Karolkelars (sp?)was talking about the rectractable association deciding the new inserts  would be a no points deduction...so I'm guessing you are correct in that one would guess this stuff has to be written down somewhere, and how does a guy like yourself who is interested in it, get a copy??

[JimNolan]

Rich,
   I found the 2010 Concours and Touring Division Rules for the 1955-57 Thunderbirds. This 16 page booklet lists every compontent and part number of compontents, types of screws and paint colors, etc. This is the judging guidelines used to determine the cars Authenticity. Case in Point: Fuel bowls. The 55 had a short fuel bowl, 56 and early 57 had a long fuel bowl, after Dec 56 it was short again. This tells me that after Dec 1956 Ford made a pre-determined decision not to use long fuel bowls. This is not to say some guy on the assembly line didn't adhere to the decision. But, an attempt was made to dictate what went on a car at a specific time. If they did it for fuel bowls whats to say they didn't do it for glove box emblems. See what I mean. Jim
       

[Zapato]

I've owned a few off topic cars and when buying certain components had to have the build date usually found on the drivers door. In most cases there were definite changes or improvements made that the manufacturer chose to implement mid year.

I found it humorous the comment about bolt heads being aligned a certain way hilarious. Lets get real does anyone think that happens or is possible to achieve in a normal factory environment. That's the thing that only happens on high end show cars and over-restored cars. Its an OCD world those guys live in and they have managed to push that on that part of the hobby.

I know that from my years working at Boeing that in the aircraft world documentation is KING. And believe any intentional deviation from as specified is instant dismissal. But then for aircraft pulling over to the side of the road has a completely different ouch factor. But even in that environment all bolts are torqued to an engineers spec and bolt head alignment never enters into that equation. To make that happen you'd either have to over torque, shim under the fastener or back a bolt off. Believe me if that doesn't happen on a Boeing 747 its not going to happen on a Fairlane 500. Maybe on a Maserati or Ferrari................

[Alex L.]

Maybe this the wrong attitude, but who really cares? This crazy "period correct" concours crap is insane. I like my car, it isn't perfect and isn't the point of having an old car for you to enjoy it? If i took my car to a show i would just go and hang out and talk about cars, not simply go to subject it to analysis by some anal judge. If someone thinks something about my car is "wrong" they can shove it.

I wish to emphasize this is just my opinion and don't mean any kind of offense to anyone who feels differently.

[JimNolan]

Zapato,
   I know about airplanes, built one, bucked every rivet that went in it. It went 215 mph, all metal, two place, rebuilt the Lycoming engine myself with the help of documentation on every nut and bolt that went in that engine. The instructions, service bulletins and list of AD's were held in a metal binder on my workbench that spanned 3 foot. I wired every plug in every piece of avionics that went in that IFR equipped airplane. Flew it 14 years and put 1400 hrs. on that airplane. Between me and the FAA it was one of the most documented airplanes in the Experimental catagory.
  I'm not trying to build a car to Concours standards. I'm trying to use the information people like that may have to answer a rudimentary question I have concerning a part they put on my car. A man sold a retractable in Illinois for $258,500. He had won numerous prestigious awards with that car. The only reason that car was worth that much money had to be the detail of the work done. And to know the difference, it's got to be documented somewhere.
   Alex,
      It's not the wrong attitude, it's your attitude. Everyone is entitled to one. Jim

[Lgcustom]

I will try to keep this short unless you guys want more. I worked at Ford beginning in 1969 at the Dallas assembly plant, then went on to Dearborn, then Kansas City. Then finished at the Assembly Division Pilot Plant in Dearborn in 1981.
I have seen the Engineering Assembly documentation for several car lines. It calls out the part numbers of components and their fasteners, the finish on the fasteners and the torque specs. No attempt was ever made to tighten to a specific orientation. Overspray or chalk/paint marks would vary depending on what operator was on the line and what shift the car was built. It would also vary based on the maintenance condition of the paint equipment. Concours judges going to that level is splitting some very fine hairs!

[briney]

Lgcustom,

My father worked for Ford from 1955 to 1959 on the line in Louisville assembling Thunderbirds and Edsel's.  Additionally, godfather worked for Ford for 20 years and I still have a close family friend still working at the Louisville plant. I agree with your information based on my past conversations with my father, godfather and friends who still work for Ford.

Patrick Dallas TX   

[Zapato]

Jim, agree totally with what you say except for one little thing, that retractable sold for $258,500- only because someone had too much money to spend. It may have been perfect and well documented but its insanity or just plain foolish that anyone would pay that much for that retractable. And it wasn't even an Elvis car.

What briney and Lgcustom had to say is the reality of the manufacturing world, and that retractable and many other 100 point cars are really done to a custom coachbuilder level and therefore in my opinion no a true representation of the as manufactured vehicle and if common sense prevailed shouldn't be judged as so.

Zap-

[JimNolan]

Guys,
     This thread started out when Canadian Ranchero found a service bulletin that said in April of 1957 Ford sent word to the assembly plants to quit using the one piece dash bezel. That's documentation. I and others have apparently sent this thread in the wrong direction when I said we might find more documentation on our 57's through the organizations that consider themselves experts enough to judge vehicles to what they call a Concours level.
    We've ended up talking about the sanity or insanity of the people that deal with Concours type cars. I want to humbly appologize for my part in changing the thread.
    Canada, briney and Lgcustom, I am very interested in what knowledge and documentation you have to share. Jim

[Alex L.]

Jim's Right. I'll try to keep my oft strongly held opinions to appropriate threads.

[Hoosier Hurricane]

I have seen service bulletins that tell dealers to change the routing of a wire or brake hose or whatever the next time a car comes in for service.  What about fleet cars that never go back to the dealer for service?  They don't get the changes.  So now, which car is "correct"?  Identical cars are not as identical as people think.

John