rusted valve

JimNolan · 2011-09-21 16:22

Guys,
I picked up my 63 from the painters Monday and it didn't run right. It was popping back through the carb. After much worry I pulled the valve covers and found two bent pushrods. After taking the rockers off I found one valve completely stuck in the valve guide (stuck closed thank God). I had to pull the head to make sure the piston was OK. It was. The valve was a brand new 1.65 exhaust valve and it was eaten up with rust. It was only on that one cylinder that had rust.
I'm having the machine shop check it out and pressure test the head. Has anyone had this happen to them. I don't think this is common but I could be wrong. I've drug old cars from behind barns that hadn't been started in 10 years and slapped a battery in it, squirted WD 40 down the cylinders, made sure the engine wasn't locked up, poured gas down the carb and had it start and run. After a oil change and a can of motor honey it would run like a top. How does a engine sitting for less than a year deterorate like that. Jim PS I love pulling head over freshly painted fenders.

Ford Blue blood · 2011-09-21 20:40

Yes......not sure why only one would rust like that but have seen it with several in the same head, mostly because they were dry (no oil on them).

I bet you have those old trick heads that are only 5 LBS each and the ultra light intake manifold too......

JimNolan · 2011-09-21 21:13

BlueBlood,
The valve stem seals are the Viton positive stop seals. I got them because they were supposed to be the latest and greatest. The valve stem was dry as a bone when we took the valve out. I'd go back to the umbrellas but the top of the post was milled down just for these latest and greatest seals. The heads are 406 65cc heads and I'd hate to see anything happen to them. The intake is a 63 aluminum 427 one 4 barrel intake. Have you ever heard of these seals causing problems. Jim

JPotter57 · 2011-09-22 07:35

No, I dont think that the seals are the problem. Pump gas, especially ethanol laced gas, holds a lot of moisture, that is more likely to cause serious rust issues than lack of oil. I would check the fuel tank, carb, other fuel related parts for that kind of damage too. That crap ethanol mess almost ruined my motorcycle. I parked it and didnt start it for about 5 or 6 months, when I went to sell it, it was flooded and stinky smelling gas was coming out the vent. When I checked everything, the carbs were trashed, well the needles and sests, plus the aluminum bowls were chalky. Also, inside the tank, which had been kept full, was rusty, even with the full tank. Cost me around 500 to fix the carbs alone. So no, I do not have a favorable opinion of ethanol.

JimNolan · 2011-09-22 07:48

James,
Thanks for that input. I have a bad habit sometimess of doing things that are popular without fully understanding what I'm doing and the reprocussions that go along with that decision. Those viton seals are a good example. I've always used umbrella seals and never had a problem. Why would I change but for people saying the viton seals were better.
As for the gas, it's two years old. I just bought 5 gallons yesterday to put in the tank. I hope my tank isn't rusted. I never gave it a thought. Of course I didn't think my car would be in body shop jail either. Bob might want to think about that too. Jim

Ford Blue blood · 2011-09-22 07:50

Jim, James may be onto something there. Years ago (while I was on the dark side) my 62 Vette would sit over the winter and start and run just fine in the early spring. It had the Perfect Circle valve seals (spring clamps on the stem and milled guide) and was given no special care prior to being put in the barn basement (1968). It spent two winters like that, never missed a beat.

JimNolan · 2011-09-22 08:07

BlueBlood,
So now the truth comes out. You lived on the dark side. You weren't concieved on the steps of Ford Motor Companys Dearborn plant, raised in the back room of a Ford Dealership and educated using the Ford Engine Maintance Manuals 1954-1965. Are you a spy? Jim

Ford Blue blood · 2011-09-22 08:39

I must admit I did stray......my young, stupid and bullet proof days......sold it to make a down on the 70 Boss 302 I owned for ten years and raced during two of those ten. But you will be proud to know that outside of the 36 Chevy street rod (351C/FMX/8"/Must II) the ONLY GM part in my shop is a chrome plated power steering pump pulley I won as a door prize at a rod run....

JimNolan · 2011-09-22 17:26

BlueBlood and James,
Talked to the machine shop today. They said I had a white crusty substance inside the valve guides. They really didn't want to open up the guides anymore because they had the clearance perfect. They put 45 lbs air pressure in the head and are letting it sit overnight, he said it sat today with 45 lbs and it didn't throw the first bubble. He said thats about three times the pressure they normally put on them to check for leaks. He also said any head that's been ported needed to be checked extra close. They can't figure out how that much water got onto the valve enough to leave rust pits in it.
I got antifreeze in the oil when I took the head off so when I refire the engine I think I'll put a real light weight oil in it along with some kind of gas treatment. You know the rest of the engine has to be like that too. Jim
PS Now, selling that 1970 Boss 302 Mustang wasn't one of your better ideas, was it.
As far as Chevy parts go, I have a Delco Remy electric wiper motor on my 57. I needed to know something about it once so I joined the TRI-Five website so I could ask questions. I didn't use my real name though. I used the name James Potter.

JPotter57 · 2011-09-22 17:56

Lol...thats low, Jim....low.

Frankenstein57 · 2011-09-22 20:34

Any vehicles or toys sitting for any length of time need to have some storage solution in the gas. Drive it around and make sure it is in the carb and fuel system. I use sea foam in my snowmobiles, and when I park my T-bird over winter. Haven't had a fuel related issue since. That also includes weed wackers, mowers, saws, whatever burns gas. Mark

Ford Blue blood · 2011-09-22 22:25

Jim, that is too funny!

Sold the Boss to my youngest brother with the understanding that he calls me if he had to sell it....I don't need to tell you the rest of the story......

JPotter57 · 2011-09-23 07:14

The seafoam seems to work better with ethanol laced gasoline than the old Stabil. It does not work at all with E-10 or E-15. That junk is a menace to older cars with carburetors, man...It is getting harder to find 100% gasoline around here. Luckily, there is a little mom and pop place about 3 miles from me that still has 100% pure gas. Costs about .20 more per gallon, but it lasts longer and doesnt foul up my fuel system...

57AGIN · 2011-09-23 15:08

Jim:

I may have some problems in the fuel tank and lines, but I think the carb is OK. I took the carb over to my Dyno guy and he re-jetted it based on the last dyno runs used for a baseline after Rick and I tore down the blower box and plumbing from the blower to the blower box. I guess the rest of the fuel system could be suspect though. I'm not too sure how much ethanol is used in the COSTCO gas I've been using, but if I had my guess it's probably whatever they'll allow. But then, out here in "smogville USA" maybe it is less than where you guy are. lol

Any good suggestions for flushing out the system???

Bob
57 AGIN

JimNolan · 2011-09-23 17:18

Bob,
It dawned on me where the water came from that rusted the valve. This is a little long but it's going to make a point. When I built the airplane I installed a oil/water seperator in the crankcase vent line and routed the vent back into the oil dipstick tube. I caught the water in a jug which I had fastened to the firewall. By doing this I kept the vent line from blowing oil on the belly of the airplane. Every month I'd catch about a quart of water in that jug. The winter months were the worst. That Lycoming O-320 engine was a big money item and you had to take care of it. I later did away with that system because I found out that I wasn't getting rid of all the water. Now, to my point. ANYONE THAT OWNS A AIRCRAFT ENGINE KNOWS THAT YOU DON'T START AN AIRCRAFT ENGINE UNLESS YOU INTEND TO RUN IT FOR AT LEAST AN HOUR AT 65-75% POWER SETTING. THIS IS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET RID OF THE MOISTURE YOU MAKE BY STARTING A COLD ENGINE UNLESS THE OIL TEMP STAYS AT 180 DEGREES FOR AROUND AN HOUR. The inside of an aircraft engine has metal parts and they will rust on you if you have moisture in the engine and oil, especially the cam.
What my painter did was start the engine and move the car around without letting it get fully warmed up. The white stuff they found in the engine was more than likely the residue off ethenal gasoiline. I'm just thankful I didn't let it sit longer.
I hope you have better luck. Jim

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