windlace/headliner attaching problem resolved

RICH MUISE · 2012-02-27 20:27

OK...since I gave up my effort to make a one piece moulded headliner, I was trying to resolve the problem of how to attach the windlace and headliner above the doors, where the headliner can't be stappled or glued. All the books or videos I watched either stopped short of showing you how, or were dealing with headliners that had trim strips added after the headliner was attached.
First, let me say, although I never attempted the factory method with the "toothy" brackets..I just wasn't crazy about that method. My first idea was to glue a rubber channel with a stainless core that I could push the windlace into, and then the headliner...an idea that just didn't work..neither the windlace or the headliner was positioning correctly and just wouldn't be neat enough. The idea I came up with while driving from Decatur last weekend (plenty of thinking time) was to glue/screw a wood strip, 1/2 x 1, above the door that I could staple the windlace to. Over that I will attach a 1/16 x 1 1/4 aluminum strip...screwed to the wood strip along the top every 4" or so, and with the bottom edge of the aluminum up against the windlace. when I install my headliner, I'll be able to push the trimed edges of the headliner up under the aluminum giving it a nice neat edge, and at the same time helping to hold the windlace in place. The pics show a short mock up of what I'm talking about, and the windlace stappled to the wood strip. I'll add some more pics after the aluminum is added, and eventually the headliner. To keep tension on the thin aluminum strip, I screwed it about every 2". Note also I wrapped my bows in colorcoded electrical tape.

RICH MUISE · 2012-02-27 22:10

On the windlace itself...I priced out stock oem type widlace, which I was going to have to dye, and it was going to cost about 120., so I decided to make my own since I already had the material. My first attempt was trying the upholsterer's cotton cording as you would find on couches, ect. That didn't work...the cording is to soft to get a nice tight even round..so I picked up some 1/2 rubber windlace core at a local upholstery shop for $16...and it worked out great.

Zapato · 2012-02-27 22:38

I've done 2 headliners in my time, first one was on a 73 Datsun p'up, second was on my 51 ford. It really is a job where you'll wish you had another set of hands. A lot of pulling and tugging and then jumping to the other side which is why the saw tooth gripper strips are used. Both times I started at the front and worked my way back taking a lot of time working wrinkles out one panel at a time. If all goes well you will not be jumping back and forth redoing any of it. Am guessing you're planning on tucking it in with a wide blade putty knife or something similar be sure its not only burr free but no hard edges.

Almost forgot find the center of your headliner, mark it with chalk, find your windshield center and rear window center, mark them also. Hang your headliner all hoops and line it up on center. on my 51 I didn't do that to begin with and it just wasn't looking right. pulled it out redid it and voila after a bit of layout it came out much better.

Hope your method works and it all stays tight. I did use factory windlace on the Datsun, really more of a slit tube like edge trim, on the 51 just had an upholsterer sew me up some. I don't think they ever use pre-made windlace.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Zap-

RICH MUISE · 2012-02-27 23:17

Thanks Zap...I read several articles where they were just gluing the windlace...not sewn. Nothing wrong with the sewing...just that the gluing method can be done by us without a commercial sewing maching or paying someone to do it.
4" wide strip of fabric sprayed with upholsterer's contact cement (don't spray the rubber core)...be careful to pull the fabric lengthwise as you go so there are no wrinkles...fold it over with your fingers..when your done go into the 'corner' tight up against the rubber with a pair of pliers and squeeze so you've got a nice small inside corner and work your way down the lenth of the windlace.
That contact cement has plenty of working time, so you can spray the entire 12 or 13 feet at once.

RICH MUISE · 2012-02-28 20:08

A little follow up..got the two drivers side panels finished and installed. I had made a few changes to the original...changed the door pull, and the color of the tan trim. Redid the back cup/bottle holder. I'm waiting for my wiring harness to make the kick panels. I'm much happier with the results this time around...now on to the other side....I still haven't made the passenger door panel.
Rich

suede57ford · 2012-02-28 21:20

The Aluminum strip are a good idea.

I have made strips of thin wood paneling and stapled and glued the widlace to it before shoving it back into the headliner gap.

Actually, I now almost always leave(delete) the windlace out of all my '57 projects and it really look cleaner.

Windlace does stop a little of the road noise out though.

gasman826 · 2012-02-29 17:05

Ya it is a cleaner look but doesn't windlace keep the A/C in and the hot out???

Zapato · 2012-02-29 18:20

Absolutely right Gasman windlace is the first line of offense keeping AC in and the last line of defense keeping heat out.

Zap-

RICH MUISE · 2012-02-29 18:50

I was trying to come up with something a little more contemporary looking...even thought about the plastic snap on kind used in later models. I agree with Pat, I don't really like the look of the bulky windlace as in our '57's...but if you remember the thread we were running on the new door seals not fitting correctly...and definetly not sealing in areas...I gave up the idea of sans windlace, or a smaller version, and went the original style route. Actually I was quite pleased with the results and glad I went that route. I've got some kinks in the vinyl at the corners, but I can live with that.
Rich

Frankenstein57 · 2012-03-01 18:18

Hey Rich, not to hijack your thread, but did you come up with any fixes for the door seals? When we were fitting the door & fender lines, we tweaked the top window frame inward on the drivers side. I wish we would have done the same on the passenger side, the gasket doesn't seal all the way around. I'm afraid to crack the paint doing it now. seems like the dogleg below the windshield doesn't compress good. Any thoughts? Mark

RICH MUISE · 2012-03-01 21:45

After I got my door aligned pretty close, I used a ratchet strap to pull the door closed. I left it for about 2 weeks, and after that I was able to align the striker plate so the door will close now as it should with a little slam. I did tweak my door post at the front top a little by putting a rubber mallet in the jamb and giving some firm pushes...that helped alot but I still can see a gap along the top of the door for about a foot on the front edge. The gap is about 1/8"...to much I think for the final door adjustment to resolve. Just a too thin seal in that area. Not sure if there's anything that can be done about it short of attempting to build up the seal with some liquid rubber. After I get my passenger side door done, and the temp is a little warmer, I'll solicit some help from someone who's gone thru the door alignment thing before.

gasman826 · 2012-03-02 06:42

It is dicey making fit suggestions without seeing/feeling the panel in question. But a very small movement in the lower hinge will make a large change in the top of the door frame. If the gaps and edges all match aroung the perimeter of the door, then just adjust the top of the frame like you have already done. The assembly manual has procedures and pictures for 'bending' the door to fit. I've spent days tweeking until I was satisfied with gaps and fit of door, hood, and trunk panels. It can be frustrating but very satisfying to get gaps better than the factory.

RICH MUISE · 2012-04-30 19:48

Ok..finally got back to my '57 after a few months on the honey-do list.got my dome light wires run, the insulation re-glued (tried 3m 77...fell down after a week)with upholsterer's contact cement, and got my headliner started.The aluminum strips are working well as such, but I'm going to have to add a similar piece at the top corners. As Zap said..just slow and easy..getting most of the wrinkles out as I go along..will go back after and do a little touch up. I think the hard part will be getting all the seams straight whe I do the final attaching at the front and back.
Kinda looks like hell now, but I'm confident I can get it looking pretty good. I really like the color and the brushed fabric I was able to find.
LOL...Actually the hard part is being an old man and trying to do this bending over backwards while kneeling and my hands over my head....I can only do it a half hour or so at a time.
Rich

JPotter57 · 2012-04-30 19:59

Looking good, Rich...I like the wood tacking strip idea...
Like Pat, though, I plan to leave it off. I never could get it to stay up like it was supposed to. When I took mine to Ohio, I was riding around and it kept pulling out, so I just pulled the whole mess out and threw it away. Hate that stuff...It does look much cleaner without it. If I drove it every day, which I won't, and if it had AC, which it won't, I might worry about all that stuff, sealing, etc. Since it is to be a stripper model, meant to be a driver, I'm not worrying about it. The loud exhaust will take care of any wind noise it will have, lol...
I do see what you guys all mean though, about the noise, sealing, etc. One day it may be a priority, today, it's not.

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windlace/headliner attaching problem resolved