Chemical dipping/paint stripping, beware!!!!!

[Limey57]

It seems to be getting popular to have car bodies chemically dipped to remove rust, paint, underseal etc as a cleaner, less abrasive alternative to shot blasting. The body of my Ranchero was dipped around 5 years ago, so a few words of warning.....

There are various treatments offered, from just dipping & a protective primer to dipping, phosphating etc, etc. There are various companies doing it and I guess the process is similar, but I don't know for sure. The name of the company that did mine is irrelevant, I didn't have it done, it was done by the previous owner for around $1,500. This was for chemical strip and a protective coat of primer.

When I looked at the car, the body was off the chassis and on its side and I could clearly see that there was some rust in the body seams. This just appeared to be surface rust starting in the spot welded joints in a few places. I've had the car for 2 years now and in that time it is apparent that the "surface rust" is a lot more than that and the last 3 months have been spent drilling out spot welds, opening the seams, shot blasting them and welding them back up. In some cases the metal has been so thin I've had to cut it all out & replace it. Although this truck is 55 years old, it was a dry state car. The rust in the seams is everywhere, not just in the usual floor pans. I'm going to have to remove the door skins (carefully!!!!) to shot blast the inner surfaces.

The rust is very heavy scale and has formed in any spot welded seam that isn't ultra tight. I might be wrong (hence not wanting to bad-mouth the company that did the dipping) but from what I can see, it appears that all of this corrosion could have been caused by the dipping with the water/chemicals getting into the seams.

IF you are thinking of having anything dipped, get some kind of guarantee from the company doing it that nothing will remain in the spot welded joints to cause grief later. My own experience is adding a lot more work to the bodywork.

[RICH MUISE]

You're an ambitious guy Gary!! I'm not asking to name the company, I'm just curious if it was dipped in England or the U.S.
Risiduals in the seams has long been the biggest problem with dipping, although previous references to it that I have seen have been more of a problem with the chemicals seeping out and ruining a paint job.
Your experience with it is the first I have seen actually happening rather than just a concern. Was the car stored outside for a time after it was dipped? Also when I think of England I think of humidity, correct? When I started my project and soon found out how much work it was going to be totally stripping the car, I  looked into the chemical stripping. Fortunatly I decided not to for cost and transportation problems (nearest was in Dallas area 375 miles from here). I wasn't on any kind of forum like this at the time, and  had no idea of the potential problems. I couldn't begin to guess how long it took to get every piece of my car thoroughly stripped, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were around 1000 hours.

[Limey57]

Rich, yes, it was stripped over here.  These companies have been around for years now stripping wooden furniture etc, but about six years ago they started offering the service to classic car owners as a way of stripping paint, rust & everything else, sometimes offering an electro-primer service at the same time.  Mine was done by the previous owner in 2007 and was just spray-primed to protect it, but the car then sat in a heated garage until I bought it in 2010 & its sat in my garage since.  It isn't so much humid over here, it just rains a lot!

I've since heard of other horror stories of owners now finding rust creeping out of body seams on other cars that have been dipped.  Maybe it was the company that did mine that messed the process up somehow, but for me going forward, I'll stick to using someone who is used to blasting car bodyshells.  I know the grit gets everywhere, but at least its a dry process!

[suede57ford]

I have heard the risks of chemical striping too.  A local shop had a 68 charger done and did a bbeatiful restoration.  A year later the car was hit by another car that came into his lane on I40.   The whole car was unpealed and destroyed.  All the inner panels, that were not exposed during the paint process had heavy surface rust inside already!

Corrosion also begins instantly on the backside of most all patch panel repairs as the welding causes an instant corrosion spot and it is often difficult to get to the backside after finishing.

When finishing any restoration it is important to us a product like 3M's RustFighterI in all the inner panels.   The 3M RustFighterI PN 8891 shoots through a Rocker Shutz gun PN 8997 and there is also a Wand PN 8998 to spray into rocker panels and get into hard to reach areas.   The 3M RusterFighterI flows into all the cracks and seams and protects all that bare metal that is in the lower seams where the '57's rusted int the first place.  You should apply the RustFighterI right before you reassemble after the paint is already done.

It is such an easy thing to do.   I can do the whole car in less than 20 minutes right before reassembling the car. and goes a long ways to protecting your car for the future.

You may not think your car is goint to get wet a lot, but every time you wash it or drive through water the lower panels get wet and hold moisture.

Just think about the door corners. Where does the water go when it hits the window?  Right to the inner part of the door.   If you spray some Rust Fighter in the door when you have the door panel off, it can really seal up the bare metal and flows into places that you cannot get primer or any other product.

[RICH MUISE]

quote..."All the inner panels, that were not exposed during the paint process had heavy surface rust inside already!"
To be honest, he should have known better. I don't understand why one would go thru the trouble of stripping a car down and then leave areas like that unprotected. Duh!!
The 3M product Pat mentioned sounds like an easy fix for that problem...particularly flowing it into the seams. I went a more time consuming route of covering 100% of all unpainted surfaces with por15, paying particular attention to seams like at the doors where I flowed it on next to the seam one side at a time and let it flow into the crevases. My entire floorpan, inside and out is por15'd as well as all inner fenders and doors, inner roof, cowl,door posts,etc. I like the fact that it is a non-porous ecapsulaor rather than just a paint.
Primer alone does not seal the metal, just slows the rusting process down.

[geraldchainsaw]

ok,  since everyone is talking about rust proofing.  and i use por15  also,    is there any thing i can use to spray  the spots over the rear wheel well & down in  the quarter panel in front of the wheel well?,  some kinda extension type thing,  something like what z uses in there door panels etc,  thanks,   jerry

[RICH MUISE]

Since you're already a por-15 user....Not sure about spraying extention, but por15 makes a dauber type applicator on a spiral-wound wire handle that's about 2 foot long. They advertise it for getting the por-15 into places like inside frames, and I used it to get into door posts and above the rear wheel well like you were talking. They leave alot of fuzz behind in the paint just to let you know, and they do get messy easy. Thought about stretching a little nylon stocking material over it to minimize the fuzz, but never tried it. Also harbor freight carries a 2" paint brush with a long (18" ?) handle that came in handy for reaching into places.
I thought what Pat was telling us about the 3m rust fighter was really interesting and for sure worth some further checking...(pricing, equiptment costs, material make-up, over painted surfaces?, etc.)

[Limey57]

I've used a small paint roller in the past (like those in the link) and welded an extension onto the handle.

http://www.matrix-tools.com/en/matrix_products/roller_small_10cm/

[geraldchainsaw]

ok,   here goes one of my stupied ideas,   i have a weed spray bottle,  you can pump it for pressure and the hose is on the bottom with spray nozzle,    to use por15,  thin it some,  and try spraying like i do for dandalines,   the only draw back would be the cleaning,  just a idea, i havn't tried it yet.    but it would get into some hard to get spots,   but also there would be some waste,  and have to use a drop cloth under it,.    went to harbor freight,  couldn't find anything,  like i swaid,  just a idea,  and i'm going to try it,  you all know i worked in tool & die,   and we made everything before we went and bought it,   jerry

[Limey57]

That might just work.  You can now get a similar product for painting garden fences with that water based brown fence "paint".  I don't see any reason why using thinned POR wouldn't work, but you'd have to thin it a lot and getting it all clean afterwards might be impossible.  However, providing you did the whole car in one hit it wouldn't matter if you had to throw the sprayer in the trash afterwards if it was only a cheap one.

Let us know how you get on.

[Zapato]

I just found a Rustoleum product a few days ago. In a rattle can a rubber product sealer that is supposed to allow a bladder like seal on concrete, bricks etc... Not sure how it sprays going to try some on some garden pots. sealing the insides would keep the pots from wicking lots of water from the soil. Maybe attaching a long tube like done with WD40 would work.

Zap-

[Frankenstein57]

Eastwood has a product for inside frames, they use some extension wands and tips. Anyone here try it?  Mark

[suede57ford]

I think the POR and Eastwood coatings are a great idea and needs to be done on the inside of all the old  surface rusted panels.   

I still feel that coming back with a product like the RustFighterI is even greater protection.   The RustFighterI product never actually fully dries, and reseals itself if for some reason the inner panels are scratched, or one of the POR type product dry up and crack, which they will do in areas that they pool heavily.   Put a half inch of POR in a clear plastic cup and watch watch  it does after a few months.   The POR means paint over rust and really bonds good to rough surfaces, but does not stick well to slick new metal, which is the surface inside of your new patch panels.  I would recommend doing both processes for the best piece of mind.

Some of the DTM(Direct to Metal)Primers or Epoxy Based Primers will actually stick better to your new floors and patch panels than a POR product.

Another product that helps slow corrision in the new inner panels is the use of Weld Thru Primer PN 5917.  It sprays like silver spray paint but can carry a current for welding.  Some body techs don't like Weld Thru Primers as they are initially slightly harder to weld through, but the added protection between the seams is well worth it.  Once a tech practices welding thru the primer they will weld fine.

The new cars do not have the issues with corrosion on inner panels because they are E-Coated.  The E-Coat actually gets between panels even where the welds are.

If Ford could have taken any of these extra steps to prevent corrosion back in the day there might be a lot more '57 Fords left.

[RICH MUISE]

Pat..anyone in Amarillo carrying the rustfighter in stock? or Lubbock? I'd like to shoot some into my rocker panels.
Ps...You're correct on the por 15 not sticking to smooth surfaces, but at the same time does not have to be rusty either. Sandblasting is the perfect tooth for it to grip, and etching with Zinc Phosphate also gives it an acceptible tooth.

[suede57ford]

All the automotive paint supply houses should have it in stock.  If hey don't they can easily order it in.  It something they should keep, as the

Rich, I will loan you the gun and wand to do your car.  I'll bring them with me to Amarillo.  We can spray it in the rockers and other low areas while I'm at your place if you like.  It should only take us about 20 minutes to set up and do it. 

You will need some paper or cardboard to lay on the concrete, as the excess will drip out of the drain holes and seams at first.

I may be there tomorrow with my regular job.

Pat