Brake push rod (Original) vs what MPB are telling. Need your input/help

[RAWms]

I have a Shop Manual sitting right next to me and did not think to open it, geezzzz.     I wish I had opened it for better background information with my e-mail disccusions wit MPB.

It appears the non-power is simply a shoulder bolt with probably a nylon bushing to connect the push rod.  The power brake pedal has the adjustable insert riding (with a small nylon bushing probably acting as a non-rattler)  on the 5/16" bolt. 

I think the solution I have is to drill the MPB push rod out to 0.7+ (edited 12/29).  The material given up will not compromise the rods integrity I don't think since the "return" side really has minimum forces.  If it is too close to the rear edge I will weld a piece of material on it.   

You mention the geometery issue which would also impact length.  The length of my push rod compared to the MPB push rod appear to be the same.  I did not take MPB's off the booster and measure it just an eye ball.  If I put this all together and push rod/pedal height is an issue I will REALLY have my panties in a wad as I think I will have to remove the whole enchilada to get to it.     You guys will hear me all over the country!

  My recomendation to MPB for their product to be a "complete" system is to make the push rod having the larger size hole.  Then provide two nylon inserts depending if whether the customers car is power or non-power brakes originally.

r

[RAWms]

Dgasman,
Your push rod looks the same as mine?
r

[dgasman]

Roger , Yes my push rod looks just like yours. The geometry issue impacts the leverage of the pedal and not necessarily the length of the push rod . This determines the bore size of the master cylinder.   The MPB web sight has a write up about this . Kent

[RAWms]

Dgasman,
While mine does not have the nub on the end that is it.  Maybe mine was ground down for some reason.

But the actual issue I have is the connection of the push rod to pedal arm.  I went last Wed. and got a standard brake pedal arm setup.  Everthing now fits.

Bottom line: You must use a standard brake pedal setup to connect the MPB push rod.  The push rod connection point is different size for power and non-power.   The question I wished I was asked is "...are you converting from power or standard brakes?" and have a discussion from there. Then you can go get parts instead of a surprise.  I'm still glad I bought the setup for reasons I posted on our previous board that got clobbered.

When I get the original Ford power brake arm out of the car I will do a comparison regarding the geometry.

We are getting there, r

[shopratwoody]

I got one for you guys  :031:My Ranchero has the standard pedal etc... when it was new it had a vacuum booster
on the left side inner fender panel. I gave it to a friend because of camshaft issues (low vacuum). It definetly felt
like power brakes.
Ron

[RAWms]

Ron,
The tank that you mentioned on the inner panel I beleive is actually a vacuum reservior.  The power assist came from a bellows under the dash and connected to the brake pedal.  I have kept my reservior to remount if I should have vacuum issues with this cam.

Dgasman,
I see you have your suspended panel out of the car.  I'm working on mine in the car which is in the final stages including wiring.  I removed the hair pin retainer and using a drift can only move the pivot shaft about 1/2".  Can you see any other retaners or restrictions.  I have been soaking with WD-40 and hammering but no more movement.  I'm wondering is it just rust I'm trying to over come or what.  Hard to see but I wonder if the bushings are binding.  I even removed the set screw thinking the brake arm was causing a bind.

Man I hope there isn't another surprise with the suspended pedal mount.  With an almost finished car and if I have to take the dash out the guys down under will hear me.

r

[shopratwoody]

r,
It was a vacuum booster. As in vacuun assist. We put in a 56 Ford pickup and he had power brakes after. (power assist)
I don't see it in the book, but we have had the car since new. Maybe the dealer put in on, I'm not sure. Most of
the Ford vacuun reserviors looked like tomatoes cans. Maybe the canned things
Later Ron 

[RAWms]

Ron,
On another thread you mentioned you did not like the pressure stop light switch look and went to something else.  I can't find that thread.  Can you enlighten me as I do not think I'm going to like the pressure switch either.  If it is like the Mustang pedal actuated switch the question will be if the MPB push rod would handle it.  thx, r

[briney]

Roger,

I think I can answer your question since I am doing the same thing. I have attached a picture of the part. Any mid-sixty to mid-seventies GM brake switch will work. The NAPA part I used is SL169, it references a 1969 model.  I had the mongo nuts in the picture lying around the shop to mount it to the bracket; I don't think you need ones that big. The bracket is just a 90 degree piece of metal. You can either make one or go to the hardware store and find a suitable candidate for use. Once you have the bracket, drill one large hole through it to mount the switch and drill other side with holes to mount it to the petal support /hanger. Position the switch so that when the petal is up or resting, it makes contact with the plunger of the switch thereby turning it off the circuit. The wiring is the same as the pressure switch.

By the way I got your email and just haven't had time to reply to it.  I liked your ride to the junk yard story and the pictures too.  It seems like whenever I go to the yard it ether rains or a snake jumps out. But it is still fun to go and look at all the neat stuff! 

Hope this helps. I will send a picture of mine when I get ready to mount it. 

Patrick
Dallas TX

[briney]

Roger,

Here is a picture of the switch.  I forgot to attach it in the last post.


Patrick
Dallas TX

[RAWms]

Briney,
Great!  Like Ron, I like the stop lights coming on touching the pedal instead waiting for pressure and besides helps clean up the engine bay a tad.  While I have my swinging pedal setup out of the car that looks like a simple mod to make.  And the snakes, fortunately they did not like 30 degree weather but Ray told us there are gillions of rattlers.    thx, r

I removed the swinging pedal bracket tonight.  Just could not get enough beef to drive the pivot pin out and drop the pedal.  Decided to take it out and get a better eye ball anyway.  In the picture you can see the two pedal arms side by side.  The pivot and push rod connection points are the same.  So my previous recommendation about bushings for the push differences I'm leaving on the table.  I realize the power assist setup of the times needed a "assist" point with the bellows but wonder why the engineers needed the different arms.  They always have a reason though.  Heck, now I have a shoulder bolt; I was feeling left out.

Hopefully tomorrow we can move forward again.   r

[shopratwoody]

Roger,
It's about time you got a shoulder bolt like most of us....
I made an "L" bracket, welded it to the pedal bracket and used a mid 50,s Chev swith I bought from a Chevy store.
The switch Briney used will work fine. Only problem is the NAPA store where I live has changed owners several times
recently and thet don't know anything. Can't even buy a 13/16 lug nut anymore. BAD NEWS
They are crappy anymore, I returned Chinese wheel bearings to Auto Zone and went to NAPA and paid the big bucks
for the Mexican ones, BUENOS DIAS SUCKER. My Ford may be a little Mex, but it's not goning to be Chinese
Later, Ron

[RAWms]

I'm so proud of my new shoulder bolt.   Should I chrome it?

I will go get some Hot 'n Sour soup and a Cheng Tao(SP?) in New Yeller but "it" better not get a taste for those parts.  You guys already gave me hell over the solid state regulator for the guages.

Regarding your local parts store, there is a counter guy that always go to the head or needs a break when he sees me coming.  It is so obvious; Make eye contact and he is gone!   There is even one now at Kragens.  Geeez man, if you can't tell them the color of your interior you can't get a fuel pump.  Fortunately there are still two at my NAPA, one with gray hair, who will take the time to work the parts issue.  They must work hourly I suppose.

When I go buy my mufflers I'm going to ask if one or two bearings come with each muffler?

Man, whats going to happen to our rides when we are gone?

r

[57 Ford Kustom]

Roger   What are you going to do when the parts person [ using the term loosely in some cases] comes out with a muffler bearing for your car ? and it is the wrong one becouse your interior is gray now instead of black. O by the way how is your solid state regulator?, make sure your gas gauge stays in american not metric



T 8)M

[briney]

Guy's,

I'm sorry to hear about your NAPA support issues. I guess I lucked out.  I live in a small town / suburb 25 miles outside of Dallas (Forney), and I guess I was lucky enough to have a guy open what is called a NAPA CLASSIC AUTO PARTS store two miles from my house. They deal with new and old, but specialize in old. The guys I deal with there have the same interests as us, and are very helpful. Being smaller they don't always have every part at their store, but they have a parts runner who goes to the main distribution center in Dallas twice daily, so I usually get what I need. If I am impatient, I sometimes drive over the distribution center and get the part on my own. A lot of times the guys at my local store call ahead and get someone to pull the part and have it ready to go when I arrive.

We are funny here in Texas we have a large Hispanic population. Most stores here only speak English when dealing with customers.  One other thing I like out here is that most businesses post a sign that says they will not help / wait on a customer if they are on a cell phone. I first saw a sign like this about 2 years ago at a Taco Bell, now I see them in about 50% of the businesses here in TX.  It looks like people and businesses are taking back public courtesy a little at a time.     Cell phones have brought a new level of rudeness in public, at stores, theaters, restaurants, churches, you name it.   

As far as the quality of the parts I find NAPA, AutoZone, O'Rielly all pretty much the same, mediocre at best.

Patrick
Dallas TX