Any aftermarket A/C guys out there?

[RICH MUISE]

I'm trying to figure out the plumbing for the ac system, so I can get as much as posible done before the sheetmetal goes on. I'm using the stock ac compressor on the 4.6 dohc. Everything else will be Vintage Air....which I don't have yet. I'm trying to figure out which are the smaller tubes/fittings, and which are the larger. What's confusing me is looking at the Vintage Air catalog,and comparing it to what I know and remember from the Mark Viii donor car.
The firewall bulkhead has a large and small port, as does the condenser and the compressor. The Vintage air catalog shows the line running from the compressor to the condenser being the larger size, which would leave the smaller tube from the condenser going thru the dryer. The Mark viii, however, uses the larger tube for the dryer. Any input/comments/suggestions appreciated.

[Ford Blue blood]

Three sizes there, large one from the fire wall to the compressor (low pressure side), small one on the compressor to the top of the condenser (high pressure side), small one on the bottom of the condenser to the dryer, small one from the dryer to the fire wall (still the high side).  If I remember correctly they are #10, #8 and #6.

[RICH MUISE]

Thanks Bill....That's the same as Vintage air shows. I think my confusion was thinking there were just 2 sizes on the Lincoln and trying to relate that to Vintage's setup. I've got a call into Vintage Air to talk to a rep to make sure I order the correct components. I also need to find out if I need a binary switch, a trinary switch, or no switch....I think that info is going to have to come from the Ron Francis (Engine management harness), to find out what their harness addresses. I know it addresses the electric fan, so that probably eliminates the need for at least the trinary switch. ?

[Ford Blue blood]

If you are controlling the fan with the cars computer use what the Lincoln had.  If you are doing an independent control for the fan use the trinary switch.  Have used this setup in several cars, works very well, helps keep miles off the fan.  The trinary switches the fan on when head pressure gets too high (no air moving across the condenser).  If the car is moving and air is cooling the Freon and engine temps are in operating range there is no need to run the fan.

[RICH MUISE]

And just to clarify...Using the Lincoln computer will also delete the need for even a binary switch as well, so I won't have to worry about adding any switch at all, cause it should be there already...correct? I think I need to verify with Ron Francis that those issues are addressed in their harness. If I got this straight, the binary switch controls the compressor, and the trinary adds the fan to that.

[Ford Blue blood]

No....the computer turns off the A/C at full throttle, it still has the inline pressure switch.  I think the computer controls a relay and is fed Hi/Low Freon.  You need at least the binary to protect the compressor from low Freon and the evaporator from Hi head pressure.

I'm at the kid's place, will see if my prints say how the computer knows what to do and how it tells the system what to do next week.

[RICH MUISE]

I typed out a reply to this, must have forgotten to hit 'post".
I wasn't thinking....I'm sure the dryer/condenser/hose assembly I pulled out of the Mark ( and can't use) had a fill valve, and something with an electrical connection. That "something" was probably the binary switch.

[RICH MUISE]

Some clarifications, and some new confusions.....Called Ron Francis to see what the engine control /computer addressed with the A/C. Their systems up until a few years ago controled the compressor and fans. Due to the computer working with a now obsolete module that is no longer available, that function has been deleted from their engine harness. They do sell a seperate fan control harness however. I was a little confused trying to follow his explanation. Hopefully I did not understand him correctly, because I thought he said I did not need a binary or trinary switch on the A/C lines, because all their fan control needed was a signal from the compressor that the A/C was on. If that was correctly understood, it indicates to me there is no compressor control. I'm going the safe route, and I'll figure it out later if I actually need the Trinary switch I'm going to include in the system. Talking to the guys a Vintage Air, if I have one in the lines, but end up using another switch instead, it will not hurt or interfere with anything. Much better spending a few bucks now to include it in the lines, than having to go back and replumb things to add one later. I actually ordered a V.A. dryer that has the trinary switch built in..simplifies things a little. I also ordered the biggest V.A. condenser they had that will fit between the hood hinges with no fittings/hoses interference.
Also, the reason for my confusion on the Mark viii system was the item I thought was the dryer on the larger tube may be something else. What now to me appears to be the dryer is all the way back on the firewall on the small line

[Ford Blue blood]

Your call has clarified how he is doing the A/C or not doing it.  His wiring harness has completely removed computer control from the A/C system.  So you will need either the trinary or the binary in line.  Yes, the switch in the top of the dryer will do the job.  I do not recommend wiring the fan to the A/C compressor run signal as there is no need for the fan to run while moving above 30 MPH.  The only time the fan should run is high engine temps and high head pressure in the A/C system.  The trinary switch will provide plenty of "room" (switch on the fan) for efficient A/C operation.  I'm not sure if the head pressure portion of the switch provides a ground or a +12V to control the fan (I think it provides +12V but you need to check to be sure) but I know the other two terminals are in line with the the compressor run source.

That other black thing is a muffler.

Given you have the trinary switch on the dryer there is no need to put anything in line.  The more connections you have the more chances of things going south (leaks).  Just my thoughts....

[RICH MUISE]

Exactly what the Vintage Air guy told me as far as the fan not needed at highway speeds most of the time. Thanks for the input.
This morning I went over and talked to a commercial supply house here in town that can make all of the lines I need for just about all of the systems, so that problem looks like it has a local source to solve the problem.

[Ford Blue blood]

I failed to mention that the output of the trinary should control a relay......

[RICH MUISE]

Yes..thanks for reminding me...hope I'll remember when I actually get all of the hard lines run, and actually get to start on the electrical. There is a relay on my main chassis electrical panel for the fans.

[RICH MUISE]

Quote me: "Called Ron Francis to see what the engine control /computer addressed with the A/C. Their systems up until a few years ago controled the compressor and fans. Due to the computer working with a now obsolete module that is no longer available, that function has been deleted from their engine harness. They do sell a seperate fan control harness however. I was a little confused trying to follow his explanation. Hopefully I did not understand him correctly, because I thought he said I did not need a binary or trinary switch on the A/C lines, because all their fan control needed was a signal from the compressor that the A/C was on. If that was correctly understood, it indicates to me there is no compressor control."
Guess I didn't understand him. Looking at the Ron Francis catalog, They have various fan cotrollers which shut the fans off/on according to set termperatures. They also have an A/C compressor fan request module that can be added "if the A/C setup requests the fan to be on if the A/C is on". So I guess that clarifies the fan controllers, now I need to find out what supplies the safety on/off signal for the compressor. I guess I never asked him specifically about the compressor, only the fan. 

[Ford Blue blood]

Rich the wiring for that is fairly easy.  Just supply 12V to the control unit in the dash.  The output of it for the compressor run is then fed to the binary/trinary switch, through it to the compressor.

The more I think about it the trinary output for the fan is a +12V to a realy to turn the fan on when head pressure gets up to the predetermed point.  That 12V is from the compressor run signal from the control unit.

[RICH MUISE]

Got sticker shock again last night. I've been looking at available A/C fittings and lines, really hoping to go with the stainless flex lines. A closer look at the Vintage Air catalog opened my eyes to their ProLine stainless hose and fittings. The thing I hadn't realized before was that they assemble to the hose similar to a plumbing fitting with a brass ferell...just tighten with a wrench...no 250. crimping tool needed. Just what I was hoping for...until I looked at the prices. The tubing runs from 13 to 16 a foot, and the fittings are 23 to 29. each! I need 6 hoses. For a 3 foot hose, cost is about 85-105>Yikes! And you still need to do the work yourself. Guess the stainless covered flex lines are out..5-600 for A/C hoses is not in the budget.
I'll probably end up with the standard rubber barrier hose. I found a website that makes custom hose to order. They have an elaborate ordering system that allows you to pick the hose you need right to the inch, the fittings you need from hunderds available, even the clocking of the fittings.
They also have the compressor adapters (the actual block with two outlets that bolts to the compressor)to change the ford quick change fittings to standard o-ring. Optionally, they also have fittings for the hoses that "plug into" the Ford quick change. I haven't checked their prices yet...I'll let you know how that looks.
http://coldhose.com/