scarebird adapters

[lalessi1]

The (4) piston calipers are a vast improvement over a single piston floating caliper. With opposing pistons you rigidly mount the caliper. The more pistons the more evenly you apply the pressure to the rotor and the better the braking.

This looks like a sweet deal if it clears 14" wheels like it says it does. I like the four piston caliper for the price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Marauder-Cyclone-Ford-Galaxie-Ranchero-Wilwood-Front-Dynalite-Brake-Kit-/131365382060?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1957%7CMake%3AFord&hash=item1e95fca7ac&vxp=mtr

[ROKuberski]

I found a drawing on the Wilwood site that shows what I think is the correct caliper.  In the eBay page then note that the caliper is a FDL-M, on the Wilwood site, they don't use that designation, but the closest I can find is a "Forged Dynalite -M".  That sounds like a FDL-M to me.

In the notes, the eBay site says that they are using a 11.3" caliper, this drawing shows 11.44" as the closest size and this gives a diameter for the wheel to clear as 13.2"  (6.6" Radius).  That seems pretty close to me.  Tomorrow, I'll get the spare out an do some measuring.

Rich

[lalessi1]

Rich,
The dimension that you need now is the distance from the rim mounting face to the center line of the disc on the rim/hub disc combination. If that made any sense. I have been looking for Granada rims online just for grins....where did you find them?

[ROKuberski]

Lynn,

Go back and look at the first post on this thread.  I found Summit Racing selling a steel wheel purported to fit a Granada. 

Yes, I do know I need more dimensional information to make a determination on the fit up of the stock wheel.  I want to make some measurements just to see what the profile of the wheel looks like.

If the parts supplier cannot say for sure that this kit will fit using the stock wheels, I'm just bold enough to ask them to ship me a bracket, rotor and caliper to do a test fit.  Who knows, they might do it.

Rich

[lalessi1]

I looked at that post twice and missed it. I have those exact wheels but in 15 X 7. Vintiques may use the same center for 14 or 15 wheels, I would almost bet on it. The outside part of the wheel is rolled but the inside is stamped. It would make sense to use the same stamped center for both. Let us know what you find out on the Wilwood stuff.

[hiball3985]

It's a good soap box.  I too feel that way.  A year or two ago, someone sent me an email listing all the things still being made in the US.  It was an impressive list.  Your consumer electronics, clothes and lots of other lower tech items are gone mostly forever.  They also went on to say that things will change and some jobs will come back for various reasons.  They gave an example of Jap cars.  Many of their nameplates are US made now.  (For all I know, you can buy a US made Jap car in Japan.)    Granted some parts come from outside of the US, but the same applies to the traditional US brands too.

I try to keep my politics out of discussions with strangers and many friends, but like most of you, it's not all that hard to raise my blood pressure on various issues. 

Nuff said!

Rich

Ford has been building cars in Japan for quite some time and I heard that they would like to import them to the US. Great! US cars made in Japan, Japan cars made in the US.....

[hiball3985]

The (4) piston calipers are a vast improvement over a single piston floating caliper. With opposing pistons you rigidly mount the caliper. The more pistons the more evenly you apply the pressure to the rotor and the better the braking.

The only experience I have with 4 piston is on my 66 Mustang and they suck compared to the Granada ones on the 57. The difference being the amount of pedal pressure needed for the 4 piston..

[ROKuberski]

Jim,

Good information.  I'll ask if the double piston requires more pressure to activate it properly.

I just ran across a couple of pictures that show how the pressure boost unit I bought works.  You can see the lever attachment that raises the center line to get the boost unit away from the exhaust manifold.  The bottom pin is the pivot point, the middle pin is where the pressure is applied by the stock peddle and the upper pin applies pressure to the boost unit/master cylinder.  If you remember your high school physics, it's easy to see that this arrangement doubles the force required on the peddle to give the same amount of force at the master cylinder without the lever arrangement. 

[lalessi1]

 What is the vacuum diaphragm diameter? There is an obvious clearance issue under the hood so my thought is the arrangement is for clearance without regard to function. I have been told by a supplier that a 7" double diaphragm booster is as big as one can fit under the hood properly.

I would also expect that multiple caliper pistons may require more volume (matching master cylinder) adjustments...but hydraulic pressure is hydraulic pressure. Modern high performance systems are moving to more pistons not fewer... this is getting to be a very interesting dialog.

[DanTudor57]

I've used the Wilwood dynlalite 4 piston calipers on my '57 in multiple configuration. All my configurations have been without power booster.

My first Disc brake setup was the Granada swap. It stopped well, but i didn't use it for long. 1) I didn't like the look of tires on Granada wheels. The  car just looked wrong. The tires looked like balloons, instead of that tall bias-ply look of my original wheels. 2) the Granada master cylinder refused to stay rust free. 3) The braking power seemed a little spongy and no matter how much bleeding of the lines, it was always a little 'off'

Next I figured that is I was no longer on 14 inch originals, I might as well  change things up. I made my own brackets and adopted a set of Wilwood Dynalite 4-pistons polished calipers. Wilwood has a 'Granada' hub and i used it and their 11 inch rotors. (I think -- I may have used a 'Hat' kit to mount over the original Granada hub) I also upgraded to Wilwood's non-branded master cylinder. This MC, I was shocked to find out, was actually a Mopar branded item. It was a 1 inch bore and did the job great. This setup not only looked good, but it stopped on demand. The sponginess was gone. I moved to 17 inch wheels. While I had Wilwood adoption fever, I also  purchased their 9 inch rear end kits with 4 calipers. Each side has a polished Dynalite and a second small mechanical spot caliper for parking brake.  This setup rocked.

Finally, I got tired of the lowered looked, but loved the 17 inch wheels... So naturally I went back to the original spindle.  Again, I adopted a wilwood product, but now to the original spindle. This time and my current setup is a 6 piston caliper and 13 inch rotors. This was a kit intended for 'road race'  2000 Mustang, or the C4 corvette. I don't recall the specifics. Needless to say, I spend money galore on all of this. (Yes, I was not married at the time -- only to my car).

I looked at the ebay auction for the wilwood setup that 'fits' our '57s. The brackets seems wrong. I'd have to double check our spindle. It may be that the rotors are so much smaller that what I am using, though.

If this kit works for our cars, and I did not already have what I have, and knowing what I know about wilwood. I would go with it in a heart beat.


I have pictures around here. I may have posted some to our member's rides section.

[hiball3985]

Jim,

Good information.  I'll ask if the double piston requires more pressure to activate it properly.

I just ran across a couple of pictures that show how the pressure boost unit I bought works.  You can see the lever attachment that raises the center line to get the boost unit away from the exhaust manifold.  The bottom pin is the pivot point, the middle pin is where the pressure is applied by the stock peddle and the upper pin applies pressure to the boost unit/master cylinder.  If you remember your high school physics, it's easy to see that this arrangement doubles the force required on the peddle to give the same amount of force at the master cylinder without the lever arrangement.

Just as a note, the 66 Mustang and the Granada I'm comparing are both non power.
I have no experience with the newer model 4 piston systems. Also I seem to recall guys that have used a similar set up as yours on early trucks had to relocate the hole in the brake pedal to regain the leverage needed. I think they moved the hole 1" down??? I couldn't find the old post about it.

[ROKuberski]

Jim,

The lever arrangement places the connection to the brake pedal in direct line and in the original position.  Moving the mounting hole down (away from the pivot point) will also decrease the mechanical advantage resulting in even greater effort to achieve the same force at the master cylinder. 

I could never figure out why my system did not work.  I kept the new master cylinder and am using that now.  It has the same bore size as the stock cylinder.  I have no improvement in braking, but I like having the dual master cylinder.  My experience in driving cars of this vintage is very limited so I am not sure that I have an unusually high pedal effort, it's just higher that I would like and adding disk brakes should decrease stopping distance.  I also had a 1937 Chevy with hydraulic brakes.  That car was easier to stop than this car is.  However, I can hit the brakes hard and lock up the wheels.  But that takes both feet and a very hard push. 

Has anyone else got a system like the one I bought, and got it working properly? 

By the way, the diameter of the boost unit is 7", I believe that's about as small as they get.

Rich

[hiball3985]

Rich,
They may have move it up an inch, I just don't recall exactly and the truck pedal and rod may be totally different then the 57, it was just a thought.

I've driven a ton of old 50-60 cars back in those days and the difference between power and non power drum brakes was like day and night. I personally like non power and don't like the sensitivity of the power units. There is something definitely wrong in yours I would say.

[ROKuberski]

Hiball,

I'm not using the power boost unit at all. 

Now, the bad news.  I found a clearance diagram on the Wilwood site and it is attached.  Based on that and the measurements I made on my spare tire, stock wheels will not even come close to working.  The dimension between the rivets is 11.75".  The cardboard cutout is the larger diameter shown on the clearance diagram.  The cardboard would have to go down 2-1/8" to hit the inside of the wheel. 

[lalessi1]

Those dimensions are close to the setup on my car, a little bigger overall diameter and the discs are around .3" deeper into the wheel with the Wilwood rotors. Bummer. I can't think of a solution that doesn't require a wheel change of some kind.

I find my brakes are spongy as well (referring to Dan's post). I can also tell you I learned to drive on a 5 year old low milage 57 Fairlane. The main problem with the original brakes is brake fade. The brakes will completely go away after one fast stop from 70 mph. They also go away when they get wet. In either case they require time to recover. In my opinion, the drum brakes are unsafe. That is why disc brakes are used today. Pedal pressure should always be less with drum brakes because the trailing brake shoe in a top pivot design tends to be self actuated. Power addition became more prevalent as discs were used. Few cars had manual disc brakes and those cars were light. I consider myself lucky to have survived my teenage driving years in my much beloved Fairlane because of the brakes. Today if my Custom didn't have disc brakes I wouldn't drive it until it did. Like I have said the brakes I have I don't care for but they will stop the car over and over.
quote author=DanTudor57 link=topic=5469.msg42764#msg42764 date=1420435402]
I've used the Wilwood dynlalite 4 piston calipers on my '57 in multiple configuration. All my configurations have been without power booster.

My first Disc brake setup was the Granada swap. It stopped well, but i didn't use it for long. 1) I didn't like the look of tires on Granada wheels. The  car just looked wrong. The tires looked like balloons, instead of that tall bias-ply look of my original wheels. 2) the Granada master cylinder refused to stay rust free. 3) The braking power seemed a little spongy and no matter how much bleeding of the lines, it was always a little 'off'

Next I figured that is I was no longer on 14 inch originals, I might as well  change things up. I made my own brackets and adopted a set of Wilwood Dynalite 4-pistons polished calipers. Wilwood has a 'Granada' hub and i used it and their 11 inch rotors. (I think -- I may have used a 'Hat' kit to mount over the original Granada hub) I also upgraded to Wilwood's non-branded master cylinder. This MC, I was shocked to find out, was actually a Mopar branded item. It was a 1 inch bore and did the job great. This setup not only looked good, but it stopped on demand. The sponginess was gone. I moved to 17 inch wheels. While I had Wilwood adoption fever, I also  purchased their 9 inch rear end kits with 4 calipers. Each side has a polished Dynalite and a second small mechanical spot caliper for parking brake.  This setup rocked.

Finally, I got tired of the lowered looked, but loved the 17 inch wheels... So naturally I went back to the original spindle.  Again, I adopted a wilwood product, but now to the original spindle. This time and my current setup is a 6 piston caliper and 13 inch rotors. This was a kit intended for 'road race'  2000 Mustang, or the C4 corvette. I don't recall the specifics. Needless to say, I spend money galore on all of this. (Yes, I was not married at the time -- only to my car).

I looked at the ebay auction for the wilwood setup that 'fits' our '57s. The brackets seems wrong. I'd have to double check our spindle. It may be that the rotors are so much smaller that what I am using, though.

If this kit works for our cars, and I did not already have what I have, and knowing what I know about wilwood. I would go with it in a heart beat.


I have pictures around here. I may have posted some to our member's rides section.



[/quote]