Wheels

[jumping jack flash]

Jim, sorry to hear about the health issues. Been there myself with 4 heart operations in the last 8 years. Glad you are around to tell about it, but try and take it easy. make a full recovery , and the car can wait if it means living a longer life.I guess this explains why I haven't heard from you. I've sent you a few communications about the paint breaks. Take your time,and get well. I'm in no hurry, Aint going nowhere soon.

[JimNolan]

Jim, sorry to hear about the health issues. Been there myself with 4 heart operations in the last 8 years. Glad you are around to tell about it, but try and take it easy. make a full recovery , and the car can wait if it means living a longer life.I guess this explains why I haven't heard from you. I've sent you a few communications about the paint breaks. Take your time,and get well. I'm in no hurry, Aint going nowhere soon.

Jack, that was last year. I'm eager to go again this year. I have found myself short winded more but I'm still going. I got your email and I'll find them tomorrow. Jim

[Ecode70D]

I'm happy to hear that you are doing better and that you are back playing with your car.  Don't push yourself too much though.

[lalessi1]

A couple of notes, any wheel nominal width is based on the inside distance between the tire mating surfaces. Typically the actual width of a wheel is 1" wider than the nominal width. For example a 15" x 7" is actually 8" wide overall. This is important to understand because backspacing is measured to th outside of the wheel. Offset on the other hand is measured from the centerline of the wheel. A technically "centered" wheel has zero offset but the backspacing for a "centered" wheel changes with wheel width, a 6" zero offset wheel has 3.5" B.S., a 7" zero offset wheel has 4" back spacing, 8".... 4.5" etc. In order to keep the same fender clearance then back spacing must increase by the same distance as the OVERALL width of the wheel you are changing to. In my case I have adequate fender clearance with 15" x 7", 4.25" B.S. wheels to go to 15" x 8" wheel and keep the same fender clearance, I would need 5.25" backspacing.

Automotive design parameters dictate that one should try to maintain factory offset when changing wheel widths, anything else will change things like wheel bearing loads and overall suspension geometry. Offset on the front wheels, contrary to Jim's statement, will not noticably alter the turning radius of any car as long as there are no clearance issues. The turning  radius is a function of the angles of the axles at full lock, offset won't affect that. The outside turning radius of the wheel will increase but only by any the amount of any increase in positive offset.

Some of you guys know by now that I am a freak about turning radii and wheel parameters!

[JimNolan]

A couple of notes, any wheel nominal width is based on the inside distance between the tire mating surfaces. Typically the actual width of a wheel is 1" wider than the nominal width. For example a 15" x 7" is actually 8" wide overall. This is important to understand because backspacing is measured to th outside of the wheel. Offset on the other hand is measured from the centerline of the wheel. A technically "centered" wheel has zero offset but the backspacing for a "centered" wheel changes with wheel width, a 6" zero offset wheel has 3.5" B.S., a 7" zero offset wheel has 4" back spacing, 8".... 4.5" etc. In order to keep the same fender clearance then back spacing must increase by the same distance as the OVERALL width of the wheel you are changing to. In my case I have adequate fender clearance with 15" x 7", 4.25" B.S. wheels to go to 15" x 8" wheel and keep the same fender clearance, I would need 5.25" backspacing.

Automotive design parameters dictate that one should try to maintain factory offset when changing wheel widths, anything else will change things like wheel bearing loads and overall suspension geometry. Offset on the front wheels, contrary to Jim's statement, will not noticably alter the turning radius of any car as long as there are no clearance issues. The turning  radius is a function of the angles of the axles at full lock, offset won't affect that. The outside turning radius of the wheel will increase but only by any the amount of any increase in positive offset.

Some of you guys know by now that I am a freak about turning radii and wheel parameters!

lalessi1,
   That was a good read about turning radius. You misunderstood what I was talking about. Mainly you misunderstood it because you ain't been there apparently. lol  Go ahead and put those 5.25 backspace wheels on the front and call me back. lol  What you'll find is the same thing I found. You're going to dig your tire into the frame of the car and you'll wonder what in the hell happened to your steering. That's what I meant about needing acreage to turn in. If you can't turn the wheel how can you compare turning radius as being equal. To elaborate on specific wheels I encountered this on, it was a Ford Ranger Wheel 14 X 6 with 4" back spacing. The Cragers I'm running are 15 X 6 with 3.25" back spacing and I don't have trouble. Jim PS. I got a set of Ford Ranger wheels for sale 14 X 6 with 4" BS. Cheap.

[rmk57]

How much room do you have with a 10.25 section width tire?
I'm thinking of getting 255 60 15 M/T street radials and they have a 10.25 section width
With a 7 inch wheel.

[JimNolan]

How much room do you have with a 10.25 section width tire?
I'm thinking of getting 255 60 15 M/T street radials and they have a 10.25 section width
With a 7 inch wheel.

With the radial tire you're looking at 10.1" section width with a 7.5" rim. Radial tires are thinner in section with than bias ply tires. You get to run a 9" tread where I have to settle for a 8" tread. On my car, repeat, on my car using the passenger side wheel opening. I've got 11.5" to play with it looks like. A 9" rim would leave 1.25" per side. If I were to use a 10.5" section tire I'd theoretically have a 1/2" on each side for clearance. Having said that it's my personal choice not to push the issue. I'm sticking to a 10"-10.2" inch tire and settle for the fender side of the opening to be in the same place as the tires I've got now. To do that I had to order wheels that had a 5" backspace instead of the 4.75" I have now. If I could run radials I'd be in seventh heaven with a 9" slick. Jim PS A long time ago Hoosier Hurricane told me to be careful when it came to filling the wheel well with tire on a 57. He claimed he had trouble with the wheels hitting the inner fender. He said the inner section of the inner fender doesn't go just straight up, he said it was curved and when the back end of the car came down the top side of the tire would hit it. It hasn't happened to me.

[Hoosier Hurricane]

Jim:

It was the outer section of the wheel well that rolls inward to limit tire clearance, not the inner.  What I did was to use the inner half of a '56 wheel well spliced onto my original inner half to get a vertical wall at the 1/4 panel.  NHRA and IHRA both failed to notice the modification.  This was when I was running in stock eliminator.  Since '57s can't run in stock classes anymore, the expedient thing to do to get maximum tire clearance would be to install wheel tubs.

John

[rmk57]

Looks like the mt street radials will have about 3/4 clearance with a 7" rim with 4.25 bs.

One thing I promised myself when I bought car was no rollbars, wheeltubs, hoodscoops, no cutting up the body at all.

Randy

[JPotter57]

I have good clearance with that combo Randy..except my tires are bias ply ET Streets

[lalessi1]

I am running 15 x 7, 4.25" BS on all four corners with 225/60 tires, no clearance issues front or back. There is a lot of room on the inside on the rear but almost no room inside on the front, the wheels are very close to the spindles. I prefer the same size wheel tire combo for handling plus with the dog dish caps the car looks "stock". I can also get the back wheel/tire on/off  without undoing the shocks or shackles. 225/60 tire recommended wheel width is 6-8.

[JimNolan]

Thanks John,
   Since it's the 1/4 panel side I'm in good shape. The tire and backspace combination I'm using will give me another 1/8" clearance on the 1/4 panel side and add another 3/8" to the inside. The 26.1" diameter of the tire will put me close to the shift point when I cross the finish line also. I've realized by discussing this topic that not all 57 Ford clearances are the same. If they were there wouldn't be so many discrepancies. And, for the life of me I can't figure out why I have less clearance on the passenger side than I do on the drivers side. I realize using different axles can cause discrepancies but I figured both sides would be the same, I'm using the Moser 31 spline. When I was down to a bare housing I measured the distance from the outer housing to the springs and they were the same on both sides. The axles themselves are the only variable I didn't look at.

lalessi1,
   Now that you say emphatically that you run that kind of backspace, I'm going to go back and make sure it was the frame I was hitting instead on the 1 1/8" sway bar I run up front. I never repainted so it'll be easy to see.  At any rate, driving the car without that sway bar wouldn't be an option for me.   

[JimNolan]

lalessi1,
   Buddy I owe you an apology, that wasn't the frame I was hitting, it was the 1 1/8" sway bar. I measured it while I was out there and it sticks out 3" from the frame. That's the first thing I installed on the car and that was back in 2005. Sooo, apparently the older I get the less I remember clearly. I didn't mean to give you false information. That kind of backspace just won't work on my car after installation of the sway bar.
Jim

[Limey57]

I'm running 15" x 7" Vintique steels all round with a 4.25" back space, on the front I've got 205 section tyres and they touch the end of the steering rack (Wurth conversion) on full left hand lock so I need to fit stops before it hits the road, see my old post here:

http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=2596.0

[JimNolan]

Jim, sorry to hear about the health issues. Been there myself with 4 heart operations in the last 8 years. Glad you are around to tell about it, but try and take it easy. make a full recovery , and the car can wait if it means living a longer life.I guess this explains why I haven't heard from you. I've sent you a few communications about the paint breaks. Take your time,and get well. I'm in no hurry, Aint going nowhere soon.

Jack, I tried reaching you by email. Hope you see this here. Here are the paint breaks. Just send me enough money to ship them and I'll be happy. My address is 1727 S. Briarwood Dr. Warsaw, In  46580. Jim Nolan