update on Rich's build

[lalessi1]

Rich, I have the hood hinges and the radiator support off my car and the hood is sitting on the rubber spacers on the fenders. I am gapping the hood on all sides first and then I will fit the radiator support and the hood hinges. My hinges were as low as they would go and the hood was high, but it was very tight between the fenders anyway in the front because the headlight panels were just not right. My splash panel fits very well and the lower part of my fenders are pretty flexible with the radiator deflector panels loose. My car was in an accident at some point too. The grill contour simply does not match the underside of the headlight panels. I am also fighting the "eyebrows", my car didn't have any. I put up a couple of pics that show what I am doing and dealing with. I will make the radiator support fit and lower the hood hinges to make the exterior look "correct" if I have too! I have a ways to go!   

[RICH MUISE]

Sounds like similar problems..just different approaches to resolving the issues. Interesting your hood was also high with the hinges as low as they could go. If I can't raise my fenders to meet the hood profile (only anothe 3/16 or so at worst point) after I get that inner fender leading edge out of the way, then I'll need to figure something else. I don't want to lower the hood hinges any more because of radiator clearance.
Not sure how you're moving parts around with the core support out as that's the only thing the inner fenders mount to. I'm sure you've got something figured out.
I'm working with the idea that the fender spacing in front is fixed because of the radiator/grille panel and the back spacing is pretty well set due to lining up fender profile with the doors and cowl. I figured I'd just have to live with whatever hood gaps that gave me.

[RICH MUISE]

Found something to support my side of our discusion. I just remembered I had kept my old headlight surround hanging on my garage wall to remind me of what I started with. I got thinking if there were rings around the bolt holes from washers, that would mean the inner wheel well was not mounted there as that panel would have protected the headlight surround from damage from the washers. I went out and looked, and I have no question now that my car was assembled with the leading edge of the inner fender exiting the inside of the fender and going in behind the radiator/grille panel.
Also a pic of my present fender/splash pan non alignment.
My car had been rust repaired and repainted in '75, but I never found any evidence of an accident or disassembly.

[Limey57]

This is really interesting stuff as I've just fitted my hood and am suffering similar problems.......  If I don't leave the hood too high at the front it rubs the front panel as it opens forwards.  I think half the problem revolves around everything on the front end being bolted together, 1/32" out in one place throws it 1/4" out elsewhere.

Fortunately my engine isn't installed yet so my 10 year old daughter sits in the engine bay undoing/doing up the hood hinge bolts as I push & pull it into place from above.  It still isn't perfect, but as it's got to come off again to fit the engine I'll fine tune it later.

[RICH MUISE]

I bent back that leading edge enough so that I was able to get the bottom of the fender pulled out to match the spash pan. Then I went to a car show starting 2 blocks from the house and spent a few hours talking with friends. So, nap time then on to mounting some more pieces. Gary...you're correct...move something 1/16 and somwething else moves 1/4". I installed one of the hood's side bumpers, and if the bumper is made correctly (who knows??), it's telling me there will be at least a 1/4" gap between the hood and fenders. As easily as the hood can be moved, I think it is the Ford design for the bumpers to nest the hood down symetrically when it's closed.

[Limey57]

I trial fitted everything before painting and the panel gaps were pretty good, strip it down, a few coats of paint later and you'd think I was trying to graft a Toyota front end onto it......

[djfordmanjack]

Rich and Lynn, If you both think that your hood hinges place the hood to high, take into consideration it is not only about moving the hinges down on the radiator support, but the relative movement of the bolts that hold the hood to the hinges, it will move the nose of the hood further down or up. What I mean is the relative position of the two bolts placed on the side of the hood. It's not only placing the hood back and forth ! when you shift the rear of that hinge piece down as much as it will go and at the same time move the area at the front bolt as high up as it will go, it will make the leading edge ( nose) of the hood come down further to the front panel. I hope you will understand my explanation, best go take a look at the car, when the hood is only slightly open and you can see these bolts. You will know what I mean.

[RICH MUISE]

Good point DJ, thanks...I guess I was thinking of just a back and forth movement, but there probably is enough slop in slots to make a difference, and I admit I wasn't paying enough attention to that. It looks like I'm going to have some big fitment issues with the panel over the grille. I did some repair work to it, but nothing that could have changed the profile of it, so it's probably in the headlight surround. Before I go any further trying to get the first fender better aligned, I'm going to get the left fender mounted. That fender did not have the headlight surround replaced, only patched in a few pieces with pieces cut off a new surround, so it should give me a better idea of what I'm working with overall.

[RICH MUISE]

DJ...you were right on! I looked at my hood at the mount area..touching at the back edge of the hinge and a 1/8" or better gap at the front edge..should correspond to a 1/4" or so by the time that telescopes to the front edge of the hood.

[lalessi1]

I left my fenders tight with very good gaps at the door and cowl. The distance between them at the cowl matches the hood. (The hood is too flat at the cowl though) but the distance between them at the radiator panel was almost 1/4" too tight. I am fixing that issue first by addressing the headlight panel problems. I get the up and down on the hinges affecting fore and aft that is a good point. My big issue now is that I am at the beach for a week!  

[djfordmanjack]

(The hood is too flat at the cowl though)

Did you have a new cowl rubber seal installed ? it will put a lot of pressure in the middle of the hood. maybe the hood latch is too tight ? does the hood rest on the rubber stops on the sides ? you would be amazed how easily the crown of the hood can be reshaped with a wooden block and a pair of helping hands.... ...might hurt a bit when the hood has fresh paint though.

Rich, glad that I could give you some fresh ideas for the trouble area.  You'll see that it makes a big difference. the leading edge of the hood is quite a long distance from those hinge bolts and it does effect that gap a lot. take into consideration that the nose panel can be rotated quite some which will effect the gap in the middle of the hood. The header( nose) panel looks as if it was a very solid piece, but it can easily be twisted and there is the bracket  holding it to the rad support ( in the middle) they all have elongated bolt holes.
you've got many ways of alignment on that frontend.

[lalessi1]

My hood is flatter than it should be. I figure I can flip it over block up the rear corners and bend it in the middle along the cowl line with a little body weight. That exercise is being contemplated but not finalized.

[RICH MUISE]

Back at it..for a day or two anyway. After some time away from it, got back to doing the final adjustment on the doors so I could move forward to the final fender adjustments. I had the doors pretty good, except I had too much lift at the door latches. When the doors were closed they were positioned close, but only because the latch was lifting them there. There should be less than a 1/16 lift and I had closer to a 1/4. After spending a few hours yesterday trying to lift the doors straight up on the hinges, I finally figured out I was trying to make that adjustment in the wrong place. Tried the correct way this morning (at the door bolts, not the jamb bolts) and it worked great except I lifted the door too high. Very very small adjustments seem to move the door too much. At least I now know where/how to move it the right way...just need to fiddle with it.
At any rate, if I'm now doing everything correctly, it appears a workable approach for the doors is tilts = undo one hinge at a time, height/lift undo both hinges. Use masking tape to locate where you are moving from or to so you don't lose your reference points.

Update...Finally got the driver's door and fender positioned correctly...at least as correct as it's gonna get. It took 5 or 6 tries at making small adjustments, but I finally got it. The door actually closes easier than it had been since the latch is not lifting as much. Now I can move on to the final frustrations of the front sheetmetal. I still need to do the same to the passenger door, but I'm going to wait until the front is assembled, as I have other projects with that door as well. My electric window on that side is binding at the top, the door seal is not installed, and the door panel has some repair work where I accidentally cut it with a utility knife.

[Limey57]

That's good news Rich, in the end with mine I resorted to unbolting near enough everything from the windshield forward and armed with lengths of wood, chisels wrapped in masking tape and screw drivers I levered, pushed and pulled near enough every panel and the fit is better.  Not perfect, but better.  I'm leaving my gaps alone now to concentrate on the other bits, I'll go back to panel gaps in the winter months when it's too cold to do anything else!!!!

[RICH MUISE]

First, I need to elaborate on the comment I made that the door closes easier with the door and latch positioned correctly. For several years I had made comments about the door not closing because I thought the seal was too thick in places. Apparently the main cause of having to slam it was probably a combination of the latch and the seal, because now I just have to close it firmly..not slam.
Progress on the '57 has slowed to a crawl.....I'm back to working on the house again. Can't believe my wife let me go this long into the summer.Now that the rain or at least threat of rain has eased a bit, now all I have to worry about is the Texas heat. Got up into the high nineties today. Funny, my wife called at lunch and told me it was too hot outside, I should be working in the A/C'd garage!
My main problem (other than me) with the front end stuff I think I mentioned...the gap between the passenger fender and the nose piece. The driver's side was fine. I think this is the same problem Lynn is having. We talked about the surface on the side of the headlight surround that mates to the nose piece, and I said it angled off, which is correct, except my passenger side angled off more than twice the correct amount. I ended up with a 5/16 gap in the front.
The problem fender had the headlight surround completly replaced with an aftermarket (non EMS), and the one that mated well still has the oem surround. (I elected to patch that surround as the rust area was much smaller.)
I first though I'd "fix" it by altering the nose piece as it would be easier to modify and less risky (repainting the fender). I decided that wasn't the right way to do it, that I should just correct the part that isn't right. Yesterday I made a little "wedged extension" to weld on to the fender, and this afternoon while I was trying to get out of the afternoon heat, I got it welded on. I of course did a check fit after tacking it in place, and I believe I now have no gap there...or close enough. It killed me to grind off the paint from the nose of that fender. Hope I can blend in that tarnished silver! Pics to follow