towing a holiday trailer

[BWhitmore]

John -beautiful trailer.  I have been to Lone Pine many times with my modern RV.  Nice little beautiful town.  My wife and I stayed in a hotel in Lone Pine one time (we were without our RV) and lo and behold there was a picture on the wall of our room of my wife's grandfather with several movie stars.  My wife's grandfather owned a company that rented cars to the movie studios.  As you know a lot of movies were filmed in the Lone Pine area.  I agree with Rich, when I hit the lotto you will be one of my first calls.  It is nice to see several RV parks in California and Oregon are buying vintage trailers and renting them for use at their park (Flying Flags in Buellton, etc.) plus the big vintage trailer show in Pismo Beach.  I also understand that there is a vintage trailer museum in Felton, Ca. 

[Limey57]

For those who use Facebook, search for a group called "Vintage camper trailers" they've some really cool stuff.

https://www.facebook.com/vintagecampertrailers?fref=ts

[SkylinerRon]

That English trailer is certainly odd looking with the single axle!
What type of tires do you use on it?

Ron.

[Limey57]

That English trailer is certainly odd looking with the single axle!
What type of tires do you use on it?

Ron.

Tires are commercial vehicle rating to take the weight, brakes are of the over-run type (as the vehicle slows the coupling depresses and activates a cable system, electric brakes aren't legal here).  The brakes also feature a stability control device that detects instability (swaying/snaking) and applies the trailer brakes independently of the tow-car to bring everything back into line.

[Limey57]

At the risk of dragging this way off topic.......  I'm just curious/eager to learn about weight distribution systems!  I take it the weight distribution bars are the ones I've circled red in the picture?  Do they put a lot of stress in the hitch?  The ball seems a long way from the rear of the car (maximum over here is about 4 inches).

Just keen to learn how trailer hauling is done elsewhere.

[BWhitmore]

The weight distribution bars actually help distribute the tongue weight of the trailer to both the rear and front tires of the tow vehicle.  The hitch is built to handle the bars and should not stress the hitch unless the hitch was poorly built.  If the bars are used with a "tru-pivot" hitch they also help with sway control.  I am not sure if "tru-pivot" hitches are still available, I used to tow with one for years but have now gone 5th wheel.  I agree, the hitch depicted in the picture seems too far away from the tow vehicle, potentially leading to hitch bounce.

[John Palmer]

The weight distribution bars actually help distribute the tongue weight of the trailer to both the rear and front tires of the tow vehicle.  The hitch is built to handle the bars and should not stress the hitch unless the hitch was poorly built.  If the bars are used with a "tru-pivot" hitch they also help with sway control.  I am not sure if "tru-pivot" hitches are still available, I used to tow with one for years but have now gone 5th wheel.  I agree, the hitch depicted in the picture seems too far away from the tow vehicle, potentially leading to hitch bounce.

Fully agree with your distribution hitch description.

There might be a need for the extra length seen in the photo?

In general, old trailer's had a very short frame tongue length compared to todays trailers.  My 1948 Spartan tongue is only 24" in length, yet the trailer is eight feet wide, and has square corners.  It's my assumption that the tow vehicles in the 1940's and 50's were narrower than the modern tow vehicles today.  If you look at the back of a 1956 F100, and compare it to the back of my 2007 F150 the newer truck is wider, and square on the back corners.  To compound the tow hitch clearance problems, old trucks had step bumpers, and hitches dealer installed that extended to the rear.  Today, everything is aerodynamic and tightly tucked in, or in the case of my factory tow package on the F150, it's "under" the bumper, not behind it.  When you connect an old vintage trailer, to a modern tow vehicle you will likely have a clearance problem when backing the trailer up.  You cannot turn sharp enough going forward to cause a problem, but it's easy to jack knife the trailer and hit it with the taillight of the pick up while backing up.  Trailer's that are flat across the front (Spartan Spartanette) are a larger problem than the Airstream/Silver Streak "bubble type" trailer shown in the photo above.

Anyone that is considering buying a vintage trailer and towing it with a 57 Ford, should buy an "extended draw bar" available from eTrailer.com, they are less than $30.  They are made by Hidden Hitch, about 16" center to center, and the part number is #80232.  It gives you the extra 2"-3" needed between the tow vehicle and the trailer for backing up.

[John Palmer]

That English trailer is certainly odd looking with the single axle!
What type of tires do you use on it?

Ron.

Ron, Trailer Tires is a huge topic in the trailer hobby.  It's almost the equal to asking a car guy which brand of oil is best, LOL.  Without going into lots of details, here's a couple of concerns to consider.

Trailer tires do not wear out, they rot out from sitting, and the UV sun rays are very hard on trailer tires.  Keep them covered/protected when not in use.  Replace the tires at least every four years.  Try your best to buy tires from fresh inventory (see date of manufacturer codes).

ST in the tire size denotes the tire as built for trailer use only.  It's common knowledge that the quality of almost all trailer tires built today sucks!  To compound the tire quality problem, the trailer tires are only built to handle something like a "G" speed rating for heat build up.  This is only about 60-65 MPH, or just over the speed of a farm implement tire.  When people start running the trailers at 70-75 MPH they over heat and you get blow outs.

Maxxis (Made in Taiwan), and Michelin are the top two quality brands of trailer tires based on user results.  You sometimes need to use LT (light truck) tires to get the correct weight ratings for the load.  About the highest rated 15" tire available is 1980#, if you can install 16" trailer wheels, you can easily find tires rated for 3050# (per tire).  In order to have a safety margin, it's commonly believed in the hobby that you should not exceed 60% to 75% of a tire/wheel gross weight rating.  It's my understanding that the method used to weight rate trailer tires is not the same as used on car and truck tires.  They "over rate" the trailer tires weight ratings.  The worse "user rated" trailer tires are Carlisle trailer tires.

This is the exact reason that I will be upgrading the axle assembly to a 7200# axle on my Spartan.  It then allows 16" trailer wheels to be used, the higher rated tires, and 12" diameter brakes.  All very important for durability on any "single axle" trailer.

[Raven Rider]

I have been looking to put a hitch on my 57 RW and I remember asking the question on which hitch to buy and this is the part number for a universal hitch by Draw tite that can be modified to fit the 57'1-07
Draw tite 41091-07 there is 2 different sizes.  I think I got this info from John Palmer maybe he will confirm my part number and tell us which one he bought the 44" or 60".

[BWhitmore]

John - you are so correct about changing trailer tires every four years.  My 35 foot 5th wheel had plenty of tread on the tires, were always covered (as is the whole trailer) but sure enough one of the tires had a tread separation doing about 50 mph.  The tires were 5 years old.  The separated tread did some pretty serious damage to the wheel well.  I am just glad no damage to the floor and the trailer stayed under control so I could get it stopped safely.  John, what is your opinion of Goodyear trailer tires - 16 inch, two axle)?  Thanks.  Bill Whitmore

[John Palmer]

I have been looking to put a hitch on my 57 RW and I remember asking the question on which hitch to buy and this is the part number for a universal hitch by Draw tite that can be modified to fit the 57'1-07
Draw tite 41091-07 there is 2 different sizes.  I think I got this info from John Palmer maybe he will confirm my part number and tell us which one he bought the 44" or 60".

It's been a while since I did my hitch, and had to go back and look it up. 

Etrailer is a great source IMO.  They have a wide product selection, a great site with good information, they always seem to have what I need in stock, and get it delivered very quickly.  They are like the Summit Racing for Trailer Guys.  They ship scary fast.

They ship $100, or higher orders with free freight.  That's a huge savings on something this heavy.

I used the Drawtite kit #41991-07 Class IV, with the 62" long cross bar.  It's currently listed at $184.90  I ended up cutting off about 6" from each end.  The cross bar sticks through my end plates about 3/4" on each side for a good weld penetration.  I made a "L" shaped plate to bolt the center section to the rear frame cross member by the license plate.  The over all finished width is about 49", and I had it all powder coated after welding.  Even though this kit had the smaller universal end plates, but they are still HUGE!  They offer a great start for your custom 1957 Ford brackets, and have a nice stiffening bend.  Just figure out how you want them mounted, make some cardboard templates and use a cutoff wheel or a Saw-z-all to reduce their size to a more appropriate car part.  This is all heavy wall material, and you will need a good 220V mig welder for weld penetration.  It goes without saying that you need to grind off the factory powder coating before you weld.  You will also need a drill press to drill 1/2" and 5/8" holes.

I have all my vehicles and trailers wired with seven way light connectors, in the industry wiring standard pattern to make them universal for towing.  This allows for electric brake connections, and also a battery charge wire for the trailer battery.  If you do the same, make sure you remember to order, and then weld on the seven way plug terminal mounting bracket.  eTrailer sells them for only about $5 making it cheaper to buy one, than to make the bracket.  You will also need a 5/8" couple pin, also very cheap.

Because the hitch will be tucked up under the bumper, and behind/below the license plate you might want to consider an extended coupler.  This is very important for towing vintage trailer's which have a very short frame tongue.  Hidden Hitch #80232 at $29.95 is 16" long and a good choice.  I re-drilled mine with a new 5/8" pin hole at 13" (center to center) for the perfect length.

Let us know how this project goes.

[John Palmer]

John - you are so correct about changing trailer tires every four years.  My 35 foot 5th wheel had plenty of tread on the tires, were always covered (as is the whole trailer) but sure enough one of the tires had a tread separation doing about 50 mph.  The tires were 5 years old.  The separated tread did some pretty serious damage to the wheel well.  I am just glad no damage to the floor and the trailer stayed under control so I could get it stopped safely.  John, what is your opinion of Goodyear trailer tires - 16 inch, two axle)?  Thanks.  Bill Whitmore

Bill, What is the old saying about any advice is worth exactly what you pay for it?  My advice is free, not scientific, and comes from sitting around the camp fire with other trailer owners about ten times each year.  The topic of trailer tires is always a hotly discussed one.  Your correct, a trailer tire with tread separation can cause much more in body damage than the cost of a new tire, and per Murphy's Law they never go bad at a safe place where you can pull over.

I have never heard any good "first hand" user reports from trailer owners that have run Good Year Marathon trailer tires.  The same bad rap goes with all the Carlisle Trailer tires.

The two brands that I hear consistently good reports about for use on trailers are Maxxis (Made in Taiwan), and Michelin tires.  Michelin does not make a specific tire for trailers.  The larger trailers all use LT light truck tires, as long as the weight rating is high enough.  LT tires also have the added benefit of higher air pressure for cooler running.  For any of the larger trailers you want/need 16" trailer wheels and tires because they offer the much higher gross weight ratings.  You never want to use all of the weight rating, maybe no more than 75%, to keep a safety margin, hope that makes sense?

Sorry for your damages.

[Raven Rider]

John thanks for confirming the part number and size also thanks for the nice instructions

[BWhitmore]

John - thanks for your advice.  My 5th wheel weighs 16,000 lbs which is right at the weight limit.  I am currently using Goodyear 16" inch tires (don't remember the exact size) inflated to 100psi and never exceed 60 mph.  In about 1 year I will need tires (4 years will be up then) and I will check into Michelin tires.  Unfortunately I still have doubts about items made in Taiwan or China.  Thanks again. 

[John Palmer]

John - thanks for your advice.  My 5th wheel weighs 16,000 lbs which is right at the weight limit.  I am currently using Goodyear 16" inch tires (don't remember the exact size) inflated to 100psi and never exceed 60 mph.  In about 1 year I will need tires (4 years will be up then) and I will check into Michelin tires.  Unfortunately I still have doubts about items made in Taiwan or China.  Thanks again.

A gross weight of 16,000#, minus maybe 2K# for the tongue weight, makes it 14,000#, or 7K# per axle, making it 3500# weight per tire.

The new Dexter steel 16" trailer wheels that I'm buying are rated for 3050# per wheel.  Your tires will be maxed out at 3500#.

So.........It looks to me that it needs to "loose some weight", or it needs a third trailer axle to carry the weight.  The easy way to loose weight is to not carry any excess fresh or grey water (@8# per gallon) until you get to the camp site (assuming it has full hook ups).

Just a random thought.