Wheel questions

[jvo]

Several questions here.  First of all, I have been planning to put steel wheels with dog dish hubcaps on my Ranchero.  I have the original 14 inch wheels, but I want to upgrade to 15's so they will clear the 79 Tbird disc brakes on the front.  Been reading online stuff for a few days now, and it seems some of the steel wheel companies are no longer in business.  I did a shop tour at the Early Wheel company several years back while I was at the Santa Cruz metal meet.  Jason, the owner told me then to beware of some steel wheels, as the hubcaps will not fit properly and might pop off just when you don't want them to.

So, I am thinking maybe I need some original wheels.  What year and make of cars will the original Ford dog dish hubcaps fit?  I went to our local pic a part this afternoon, but they don't even have anything older than 1990 now. No Ford cars whatsoever with 4 1/2 bolt pattern, other than Explorers, which I assume would have a different wheel centre??  I "think" I read somewhere that the dog dish hubcaps will fit most cars up to 1980 or so?  Who knows the answer to this question.  I assume some of you have already been down this road.  Thanks.

Or, does anyone know of a wheel manufacturer that does the proper centre for our dog dish hubcaps?  I measured mine and they are 10 3/16ths if I remember correctly.  I don't want to order wheels from Summit or Speedway lets say, and just hope that the hubcaps will fit.
I have read pretty well all of the posts on here about wheels and offsets, etc, but I could still use some advice on that subject.

Okay, so after I was at pic a part, I stopped at a buddy's place and asked if he had any older Ford rims.  He said no, but we did pull some ET Torque Thrust style wheels out of his attic.  He gave me a pair of 15 x 6 ET wheels, aluminum centre and steel rims, as well as a pair of 15 x 7 ET wheels, all aluminum.  They are in decent shape, just need polishing and cleaning, and painting of the centres, but will look good with a little work.  Nothing at all wrong with them, other than appearance.  The 7 inch wide ones only have 3 1/2 inch of back spacing, but I assume they will still fit the Ranchero no problem???

He also has a pair of really nice aluminum slots, no brand name, not a uni lug, but definitely a 4 1/2 inch bolt pattern.  They are 15 x 8, but only have a 3 inch back spacing.  I'm assuming these definitely will not fit.  Price is also right, as I do his metal work, and they are free, including all lug nuts, and centre caps, etc.  I need clarification on this, pretty sure they won't fit the wheel opening from what I have read on this forum.  But if they did, I would take them home as well. 

It will be nice to have a second set of wheels and tires to swap out occasionally, especially since I'm getting them cheap, cheap, cheap ( free ).

[lalessi1]

I am using 15 X 7 Wheels Vintique, series 62 and original dog dish hub caps. I bought them from Summit. They have 4.25" back spacing, the caps are a good and tight fit. 8" wheels with 3" back spacing will not fit the rear of my Custom. The 7" wheels with 3 1/2 back spacing will be a VERY TIGHT (if at all) fit on the rear (probably depending on tires). You could modify the Ranchero.....

http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/wheel-vintiques-62-series-ford-chevy-style-o-e-bare-wheels?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&tw=vintiq&sw=Wheel%20Vintiques%2062%20Series%20Ford-Chevy%20Style%20O.E.%20Bare%20Wheels

[RICH MUISE]

JVO...just went thru that on my car, with a 4 page thread to go along with it. Look down about 3 threads under this one for one about "OEM wheel widths". I think you'll find your answers there, but it's all in the backspacing on our cars...... quoting you.......
"The 7 inch wide ones only have 3 1/2 inch of back spacing, but I assume they will still fit the Ranchero no problem???"
Unless you're planning on narrowing your differential,  I think the 3 1/2 backspacing unfortunatly is going to limit you to a very narrow rear tire unfortunatly...but read my thread

[jvo]

Lynn, I am not going to modify my wheel openings, as in, radius them like a drag car.  Want the stock look definitely.  However, I am going to change the inside wheel tube to go pretty much straight up from the fender lip, as I already have some cheapo 16 gauge trailer fenders, and my inner tubs were rusted right out anyway.  The stock inners slant inwards slightly from what I can see, and I will make them go straight up, which should give the top of the tire a little more clearance, but not anything more right at the fender lip.  Thanks.

Rich, I had read your thread before, and I just re read it.  I have a pair of 205/70/15 tires that were given to me by a friend that I will use for runners for the front.  They are almost brand new, and will serve fine for the first set of tires for the Ranchero for mockup.  I can change it up from there afterwards.
The rears, I have a set of 225/70/15 almost brand new from my Ranger pickup that I can mount up on the ET mags to see how they will fit on the rear.  I'd like to go a little bigger than that eventually though, so I am now contemplating an Explorer diff from pic a part and narrowing it on one side.  Anyone know how wide it would be doing that?  That would give me disc brake rear brakes that might just make tire and wheel installation a bit easier also.  I haven't done anything to the original rear end other than cleaning and painting yet, so that is still a possibility.  I could always sell the original, or use it on another project someday.
I guess now is the time to make that decision.  Have to go back to the archives to read up on narrowing an 8.8 rear.
I am doing a bunch of metal work on a 37 Chevy pickup for a friend, and he has the jigs to narrow a rearend, and does it all the time, so the biggest amount of work is to go pull a rear out of an Explorer at pic a part, and dammit there is snow on the ground her now.  Should have done this last month.
Keep the input coming.  Thanks.

[gasman826]

255/70/15 on 7" rim with 3-1/2" backspace will not fit or at the least rub.  The first contact point will be the outer fender flange (lip).

[jvo]

Thanks for that.  Just came back from lunch with Lloyd, and I think i will narrow the rearend.  Probably sell this Ranchero rear to a hot rodder, and either narrow a pickup nine inch, or use an Explorer rear.  Anyone know off hand if I do the Explorer 8.8, and use two narrow side axles, if it would be right?  I will be searching out this info in the near future.
Is 3/4 inch enough on each side, or should I go narrower? 

[RICH MUISE]

The oem width is 57.5 flange to flange. (I had mine narrowed to 56.), and with 15x7 rims with a 4.25 backspace and 235 x 70 x15 tires, I now have about 2" clearance at the fender lip, but that's with NO brake drums OR rotors....so deduct 1/4" or so for that.

[jvo]

Okay, thanks for that.  Rich, did you have to buy new axles?  I don't have them out of my rear just yet, but looking at some 31 spline axles at Lloyd's shop, there was only about an inch and a half of spline.  If you cut 3/4 inch off , that doesn't leave much spline on the axle.  Are there some common o.e.m. axle lengths that will work, or am I looking at several hundred bucks for new axles? Gotta get reading again, I guess.

[RICH MUISE]

I had my differential totally redone/rebuilt. Shortned, Trac-Loc added,  new gears, big bearing ends, taller yoke, new seals, bearings, and yep, new 31 spline axels.
Double check, but I believe the Explorer rear end you mentioned ends up pretty close to what we need by removing the long housing end and axle and replacing it with another short tube and axle from another rear end. I think I've read also that most guys shorten the long tube to suit a oem short axle, rather than trying to swap tubes.
BTW, odds are your stock axles are 28 spline, and my guess as to whether or not there are oem axels that might work from a salvage yard....the '57 rear end was I believe the shortest of all the 9", so with that in mind, I don't think there would be anything oem out there.

[Ford Blue blood]

57, 58 & 59 were all the same.  The rest all got wider except Granada cop cars & Versiale were 56" flange to flange.

[jvo]

Thank you again.  After a lot of reading, I realized I would more than likely have to buy a pair of axles regardless of what I decide to do, so??? I am leaning more toward the 8.8 again.  I didn't realize that people were welding 9 inch axle bearing ends onto the 8.8 housings to eliminate the c clips.  I have to pay 250 at our pic a part for a complete diff, but I would be getting disc brakes as well as a posi unit, and I can check the door tags to get the axle ratio I want as well.  That seems to be the way to go.  I can then just buy a pair of cut to fit 9" axles, and get it to whatever width I want.
It seems that if you shorten one side of an explorer diff, you still end up being 1/2 an inch shy of taking 3/4 of an inch out of each side of the 57 nine inch rearend. 
My friend Lloyd says he just cuts the 8.8 housing anyway, so I would install a couple of 9" bearing ends on it and be done with it.  Simple and cheap, and I could sell the 57 complete rear end to a hot rodder that wants one.  I sold one earlier this year from the parts car for 500 bucks here locally.  Might just try that again. 

[Ford Blue blood]

The 57 - 9 rear ends were the hot ticket "back in the day" for the hot rodders.  They fit into 32 - 40 Fords without modification, had the perfectly smooth rear plate and were tons stronger then the stock keyed Ford axles that were stock in those cars.  The Olds rear ends of the 50s were the thing for drag racers as there were stronger then the Chevy's and Pontiac's of the time but they were too wide for the old cars and had an ugly view from the rear.

[rmk57]

I'm using the same 15x7 steelies from Summit as Lynn. 4.25 b/s and the 10 1/8 small cap fits perfectly and that's with p235/ 70/15 bfg's or 255/60/15 M/T street radials.
I have about 3/4" per side with the M/T slicks. It's never rubbed with 4 people in the car so far.

Randy

[jvo]

Okay, thanks Randy.  I have the springs off the back end right now, as my buddy talked me into rebuilding them instead of buying new ones.  Ground them all down, blasted them, and putting teflon liners between the spring leaves, so?., since the rearend is out anyway, I thought I would solve this problem. 
Headed out to pic a part this afternoon to see if I can find an 8.8 like I want.  Lloyd just gave me some Torino housing ends for free, gotta clean them up, and cut the uglies off them, but they will work just fine.
Also, my brother is getting rid of a Chevy 12 bolt posi rearend, I can probably have for free, but don't know the ratio, and its got drum brakes that I could convert, but that might be blasphemy to put that into a Ford???
Thanks for the input.

[rmk57]

The 12 bolt axle would be a step backwards in my opinion.  Different bolt patterns than the front wheels means two spare tires.