Fixed rear side window install

[RICH MUISE]

Up Front Edit:.........there ended up 3 pages on this thread trying to sort out issues. For the most part, my posts can be pretty much ignored until post # 43. As Lynn has posted, it pretty much all depends on having the correct glass size. If glass was cut to the template supplied with the bracket/support kit, your glass is too small. Mine was. Finishing up the install on the second side this week, I found an easier way to get a really good fit without having to get new glass cut or fiddling with wood spacers.

This is regarding the conversion to a fixed rear window for the Custom 2 dr models ala Business Sedan. Honestly, I have no idea how Ford assembled these at the factory, but after finally getting it to work correctly, I'm assuming it may have been similar in effect to what I did, just different materials.
This has been a frustrating issue for years for a number of us. I had the installation done but was never happy with it, so when I pulled all the side glass out to repaint my car, I was determined to get it right if it was possible when I reassembled the car. The issue seemed to me and others to be the width of the glass channel moulded into the rubber seal. This turned out to be a non-issue with the way I ended up doing the install (on the 3rd approach this time).
Disregard any previous suggestions I made on this install.

This install will require the seals from Dennis Carpenter, the brackets from John (1957ford.com) and the glass cut to the pattern John supplies with the brackets. You will also need some shims like the household variety you use shimming new doors and windows. I found some plastic ones that worked out nicely because they are narrower than the wood variety that would have to be narrowed lengthwise. I found them at Sutherland's Lumber, and you will need 2 packages of 20. I also used some 1/4 x 1/4 poplar wood strips from Lowe's similar to the balsa strips for model building.
to be cont.

[RICH MUISE]

An overview of the project and issues to get you guys following along my train of thought:
Firstly, the Dennis Carpenter seals are made from an extrusion glued at the ends to form a circular seal. I would imagine the original FORD seals were moulded to the shape of the window, especially at the corners. The crossection of the DC extrusion is pretty heavy on the inside lip and there is just no way to bend it around the corners without the inside puckering alot. More on the fix for this later. The outside lip that conforms to the body is very thin and will conform to the tight corners with no puckering.
In the past, the wide width of the glass channel was of major concern to me and others, but in reality, it doesn't seem to affect the final fit.
When I installed the glass the first time a few years ago, and installed John's brackets they were not doing anything because they are quite a bit below the assembly. I thought I had just wasted my money, but on this way of doing it, they become very important, which is why I think Ford may have done a similar install.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the glass pattern from John makes the glass 3/16" too short on the length and 1/4 to short on the height, but there is a fix for this. The reason I'm not sure the glass is too small is that I may have stretched out the seal removing and cleaning it from the prior installation.

The overall thinking is that the rubber seal must conform to the body and seal against the glass both on the inside and the outside. With that in mind, the only way that is going to happen is if the glass is the correct shape and size all the way around to push the seal into place on the body. If the glass is too small, as mine is by the mentioned dimensions, it won't push/pull the seal all the way in place against the body. Likewise, the seal must be supported on the inside to keep it from just falling away from the glass and to maintain the pressure on the outside. This is where John's brackets come in.
The step by step in the next post.

[RICH MUISE]

step 1: assemble the seal onto the glass dry. It probably will be loose and wanting to fall off.
step 2: install the brackets from John per the instructions.
step 3: Install the glass/seal into the window opening dry. The plastic pry bars are really helpful here to pull that outer lip over the body window lip,  as are a second pair of hands pushing on the glass lightly from the inside. If you're working alone, just reach in from the door to push out on the glass until enough of the seal is pulled over to hold it in place.
step 4: from the inside push up and towards the back on the glass/seal. wedge two shims (front and back) in place temporarily between the seal and John's bracket on the bottom to push the assembly tight against the top. You want the seal tight up against the inner sheetmetal just inside the window.You'll also need a shim between the seal/and the door post to push the window all the way into the back corner. At this point you should see the seal tight against the body all along the top. There is a lot of back and forth from pushing the seal in place from the outside, and pulling it tight from the inside. From the inside I use a pair of mini smooth jawed flat nose pliers.
Being pushed against the inner structure tightly, the seal will pretty much stay in place where it is pulled/pushed. Notice what is happening up top....the glass is pushing the seal against the inner structure, holding the backside of the seal square to the glass and everything is in place where it should be, against the body and against the glass (outside and inside). So, now we just need to duplicate what is happening up top on the bottom and the front edge.
to be cont.

[RICH MUISE]

From this point, your install may or may not be a little different depending on how tight your glass is pushing your seal in place on your car.

step 5: If your glass is pushing/pulling  the seal up tight against the body, then you only may have to add shims tightly between the rubber and John's bracket on the bottom to support the seal. If it is not tight, as mine wasn't, then pull the seal in the position it should be in, then peak inside the seal to see how much space is between the glass and the seal. This space/air gap needs to be filled, and this is what I used the 1/4 x 1/4 wood strips for. Yours may vary, but on mine, the full 1/4"width was needed along the bottom. It has to be tight enough so there is no movement of the seal on the outside of the body, so I just put in 5 or 6 inch lengths at a time working around the temporary shims holding up the assembly. After I got the gap eliminated on the inside in one area, I used the tappered shims to hold everything in place tight. You will have to do this all along the bottom and along the front. Note the brackets now actually have a function!!
On mine, I had to whittle the 1/4" wood down to about 3/16 to fill the gap on the front vertical edge.
I also had to whittle down 3 banana shaped pieces about 3/4" long to fill the gaps at the corners so the corners on the outside would pull against the body.
step 6: everything at this point should be tight everywhere and nice and even except at the 3 inside corners where the heavy rubber just won't fit down against the glass. This bad puckering is what makes me think the original FORD seals were made to the shape of the glass.
(Keep in mind the garnish rail is/should be pushing against the seal squeezing everything together,) I do not see any option at the corners other than carefully doing  some pie cuts on the corners so the rubber will lay down flat. That's what I did, then used a few drops of Gorilla gel super glue to glue the corners against the glass I wished I was a little neater doing it, but the garnish rail will cover most of the seal.
Today I need to dig out my garnish rail and make sure the wedges as installed do not interfere with it's fit.
At this point, the seal looks good and fits tight enough against the body and glass that it should be watertight, or pretty close. Keep in mind the original roll-up windows were never designed to be watertight.
Sorry for the lengthly thread

[lalessi1]

Thanks for taking the time to post that Rich. I plan on doing the install on mine as well.

[RICH MUISE]

James is doing his soon as well, so figured I'd better get it posted asap.
It took about 4 or 5 hours to get the one side done, btw, but that's alot less than my previous attempts when I was trying to build up the glass width around the periphery and attaching the seal to the glass before installation. Results on this method were 100% improvement.
After I check the garnish rail for clearance on the shims, I'll run some aluminum tape to keep them from vibrating/falling out.
Some pics......
A head's-up: Notice in the second pic, top right, the seal has some distortion. This is where they glued the extrusion, and I should have put it up top so it was less noticeaable.
The third pic shows the drastic pucker on the inside, and also shows the little wooden corner piece that was used to fill the corner airgap and get the outside of that seal against the body without puckers. That's the same corner shown in pic #1
The last pic: Notice how the seal is against the glass and even inside and out where the final shims are wedged in place. Where the temp. shims are, the seal just doesn't fit against the glass or body

[RICH MUISE]

a few more...self explanitory. The last one does show one corner pucker eliminated by cutting and super gluing.

[JPotter57]

Thanks for that Rich.  I made this sticky so it will stay up top.  Good article.

[Ron]

Rich--What are the advantages of converting from the roll-up to the fixed rear windows?  I don't have a '57 2-door sedan (unfortunately), but I do have a '56 Fairlane Club Sedan with nicely-functioning roll-up rear windows.  Just curious what the advantages are for going to the fixed glass.  Thanks, Ron...

[RICH MUISE]

The general/original idea for me was to eliminate one souce of leaks. As you know, the tracks and other window fuzies stuff doesn't keep water out, but as the newer cars with rubber seals replacing the fuzzies with rubber should seal better. Had I known they were going to take so much to figure out how to install, I probably would have just installed the power windows as I did in the front. One other thought was, for me, I never rolled down the back windows and don't expect too many passengers in the back that would want it.
That said, now that I know how to do it, it's really not so bad....at least it's a lot easier and simpler than my lengthy how-to posted above. Sorry for that...I could have said it all with one paragraph probably:

Put the seal on the window dry and install it into the car. Push the window up tightly against the top and back and you will notice the seal hugs the body outside and is against the window inside. Now, dulicate what is happening up top by filling in the bottom and the front with spacers. You may have to do that with spacers between the glass and rubber to pull the seal tight against the body, then fill the space in with shims.

lol, only me could turn that paragraph into three or 4  legthy posts!

[lalessi1]

I just purchased the "70D fixed window kit" from John Gambill Sr. I am thinking they may not be available in the future. Rich, you may want to list Gambills' email address as a source for these.

[RICH MUISE]

Yes, good point for now anyways. I'll check into getting the listing changed since the .com is currently not up. It's probably best to wait a little since  there is a business dealing going to be happening that I don't want to interfere with. What I'm getting at is I don't know if James is going to add paid advertisers like apparently John had at the 1957ford site.

[lalessi1]

Well I have received my brackets from John and the gaskets arrived today from Dennis Carpenter. I am ready to purchase the glass. After reading your thread Rich I am wondering if the glass template is too small. I looked at the glass shown on eBay from Auto City and it doesn't look like the template at all (assuming the picture is accurate). I am thinking about starting with a piece of plywood cut oversize...Rich what are your thoughts? Anybody care to comment?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-1958-FORD-2-DOOR-SEDAN-BUSINESS-COUPE-CUSTOM-QUARTER-GLASS-GREEN-TINT-/291113655377?hash=item43c7b9dc51:g:-X8AAOSwNKRXiSD5&vxp=mtr

[gasman826]

I used the supplied template for the glass...fit fine.

[JPotter57]

my template said not to scale on it, but to remove 1 inch from the bottom of the roll up quarter window.  I apparently didnt finish trimming my template, because when I took it to the glass cutter, my quarter windows are now too big, and I have to take them back tomorrow to get a bit taken off.  The template fits perfectly inside the window opening, with no rubber on it.  There is no way it will fit with the rubber.  I am taking it back to have 3/16 taken off all the way around.  Hopefully, it will work.  I fitted my heavy cardboard template inside the rubber, and it looks much more likely to go in than the other.  If this doesnt work, I will be buying two tubes of urethane windshield adhesive, and glue the devil in....SHould not be this big a PIA to get quarter windows in.