1957 Ford Country Sedan mocha silver V8 4dr wagon

[hiball3985]

I'm glad the bug catcher worked for you  It doesn't take long for the netting to plug up, maybe a few shorter rides next time. I can just picture what you went through trying to clean the block out, YIKES 

I tired the citric acid in my Mustang radiator for a few days but it probably didn't get hot enough just sitting in the sun. The tubes looked cleaner at the top tank but I took an old oil dip stick and pushed it down the few tubes I could get at and still hit some blockage further down the tubes nothing lost and I will mix up a new batch and try it again later this week when it warms up again.

[djfordmanjack]

Hugh, I guess we have to go through all of that to fully appreciate our cars. too little or no anti freeze means no rust protection.
I will make sure to have enough anti freeze from now....

Jim your net trick worked just perfectly. I will proceed with that until no more debris coems out the block.

Interesting, while I had the starter off the engine, the casting number says 72 6  so the block was cast on February 6th 1957, which would quite nicely match my early March wagon. could be the og block or at least a very close match.

[hiball3985]

Looking at the picture it almost looks like the original steel shim type head gasket. Thats not always a good thing 

[djfordmanjack]

I was thinking from the start that the engine could have been unopened and all original. lots of matching date codes and correct details down to heater hose fittings, bolts, paint aso. the car appears to have been a one owner surivor at least until Y2K ( previous owner born 1914) if not 2016 when it was shipped to England.

The engine seems to have good compression on all 8 and and there are no signs of oil/foam/sludge or bubbles in coolant nor oil. In my opinion there are no head gasket leaks. But what do I know..... ....probably next week or the week after will tell even much more about the engine.... ....there's something going on with the car every week.

[hiball3985]

Sounds like the head gaskets are still good. G, did you try running a piece of wire or anything down the radiator tube to be sure they are clear all the way through? See what I wrote in my modified post a few back.

[djfordmanjack]

Jim, I just reread your post. I havent further cleaned the radiator core, since the radiator in the wagon now is the 4 row from my Del Rio, which ran cool enough even in AZ.
I know what you are pointing at, as with my first 57 I opened up both upper and lower radiator tanks and found most all of the core tubes clogged with scale somewhere down at the middle or lower. I did clean them out with a little blade and rod, much as you were saying using an old oil dip stick ( another great idea!).
I don't know if using citric acid will be satisfying in your spare radiator. As mentioned before, it works best with near boiling water and circulating. I bet one could build a great heating/circulating unit with a cheap little second hand solar panel and a little accessory ( drill) pump from home improvement store.
I guess the best way to restore a radiator still is using a new core. I love the date matching stamped brass tanks though and nothing looks better than a OEM radiator.

[hiball3985]

I agree, the original radiators look good. Mine has so many pin holes in the top tank I couldn't salvage it and went to the aluminum one. It's getting to a point here that radiator shops are few and far between. All the new cars are just throw-a-ways.
Sorry I didn't remember you were using the Del Rio radiator, I'm glad the crap from the engine didn't get into it.

Unfortunately back in the day people who didn't live in cold climates didn't spend money for anti-freeze and just ran straight water, I'm living proof  We didn't even have enough sense to use distilled water. Even the first 57 I got in 1966 had a plugged radiator. Did radiator shops tell people to run anti freeze, of course not 

[gasman826]

While in high school, I worked in a hardware store that sold two kinds of bulk antifreeze...alcohol and permanent.  Even in 1967 Michigan, every fall, vehicles were winterized.  Customers brought in their containers to be filled from 55 gallon drums.  Alcohol was cheap but evaporated so thermostats were below 180 and better at 160.  Alcohol had to added all winter and by late spring was gone.  Alcohol offered absolutely no corrosion protection.  Early permanent was marketed as its name sake...permanent.  So customers never changed it as long as the freeze protection registered safe.  About the only time permanent was changed was a water pump, hose or radiator failure which usually happened with regularity.  As hoses, water pumps, and radiators got better, permanent was never changed until the coolant turned to corrosive, rusty slime that ruined the water pump or freeze plugs.  More recently, manufacturers came up with the pink, never-change antifreeze that was good for 100,000 miles but wasn't.  Now there are test kits to confirm the corrosion protection of a vehicles coolant or just change it every 2-3 years.  Now, engine shops have a 'cooking' process to clean blocks, heads, and intakes of all rust, lime and corrosion to make rebuild as good as new.  Its the only way you really get it out.  The more one tries to clean the system the more likely the cleaner will eat through things you don't want ate...like head gaskets and freeze plugs.

[Ecode70D]

.  .  The more one tries to clean the system the more likely the cleaner will eat through things you don't want ate...like head gaskets and freeze plugs.

     Guenter
      As much as I hate to admit it, what Gary said is true about other things possibly getting eaten through.  So be aware of that .  I hope that you have a spare gasket kit handy.

      Your freeze plug areas that you opened look absolutely horrible.  Did you open all of them after seeing all of that Schmutz (dirt)?    They do look a lot better since you cleaned them.  Keep doing a little bit at a time.  Don't get frustrated.  You will conquer this temporary problem.  Jay   

[djfordmanjack]

Jay, I did pull all 4 freeze plugs from the block, the front ones weren't that badly clogged with Schmutz, but still when I removed the front drain valves alltogether, no water was coming out!!  Heavy poking with a screwdriver removed the scale and finally let the water out. Obviously at least the lower 1-2 inches of the water pockets were filled up with sediment, rust, sludge... I do hope that this cleaning will at least help a little in keeping the temperature down. while replacing the plugs  a few other things need done as well, cleaning and sealing the oil filter adapter and road draft tube, cleaning and inspecting the starter motor aso.
modern temp and oil press gauges will be adapted while at it, so I will finally know what exactly the engine conditions actually are.
Gary, your words make much sense. I am sure this is exactly the reason for what we have here. although I am still in the cleaning process, I will dump the used coolant and fill her up with distilled water and new permanent anti freeze today.
The CS project is becoming a material battle by now. She's eating oil, gas, filters, antifreeze and spare parts from the Del Rio shelf faster that I can replace them....
I even replaced the carb last week without much success and changed back to the old one on the car, with a lighter power valve for now. let's see.
Jim, what is the soil like in the area that you come from ? Usually using tap water that comes from limestone it will clogg everything in a short time. Our house freshwater comes from limestone mountains and we usually have to free up stuck valves, percolator, shower aso twice a year ( that's where my experience with citric acid comes from). Now imagine what that kind of water does to an engine that has hundreds of heat cycles, up to nearly boiling water and many different materials (steel, cast iron, brass) around.

[mustang6984]

I wonder...it you left the block open for a few days, let ALL the water dry out so that the dirt/scum/sediment inside was also dry, if you could vacuum most of it out with a small vacuum cleaner with a piece of fuel line as an extension to get way deep inside. This is what I use when I clean my pellet stove each fall. Amazing where that little hose can go!

[gasman826]

It's interesting that some extreme race engines are core filled to increase cylinder wall stability.  Over heating is less of an issue in WOT drag racing.  Many heavy duty diesel engines have cylinder liners.  The overhaul kit includes new pistons and liners.  Cubic inches and compression never change.  Just pop the pistons and liners out.  Each time the cylinder fires, the heat radiates through the cylinder wall to the extent of a near boil temperature.  The coolants job is to remove that heat without boiling.  Foreign material (minerals, rust, dirt) in the coolant bond (like weld) to the coolant side of the cylinder interfering with heat removal process.  So even if the radiator is successfully removing heat from the coolant, cylinder deposits could be causing cylinder wall hot spots.  Coolant like transmission fluid has many jobs so regular changing should be on the maintenance schedule.

[hiball3985]

The CS project is becoming a material battle by now. She's eating oil, gas, filters, antifreeze and spare parts from the Del Rio shelf faster that I can replace them....
I even replaced the carb last week without much success and changed back to the old one on the car, with a lighter power valve for now. let's see.
Jim, what is the soil like in the area that you come from ? Usually using tap water that comes from limestone it will clogg everything in a short time. Our house freshwater comes from limestone mountains and we usually have to free up stuck valves, percolator, shower aso twice a year ( that's where my experience with citric acid comes from). Now imagine what that kind of water does to an engine that has hundreds of heat cycles, up to nearly boiling water and many different materials (steel, cast iron, brass) around.

I think the only solution to all the problems is to ship it back to the US, I'll send my address.  I have a new Y block engine I'm building sitting on the stand waiting 
Only a few cities in So Calif have their own water supply, the majority of it like mine comes from Northern Calif via an aqueduct, some other areas get it from the Colorado river. It goes through treatment plants but I guess they don't remove minerals because I have deposits in everything, not really bad but they are there, not sure if it's limestone but more then likely.

[djfordmanjack]

Jim, the only problem is what am I gonna do with the 317 cui Y block that I am building then ? 
This car is going nowhere.... I might be a little upset about her behavior now and then, but we'll get that fixed...haha

Hugh, vacuum cleaning is a neat idea but I don't think it would work on a Y block, the clearance between cylinders is maybe 1/8 to 1/4th so no way to get in there with a hose.
here's the remnants of the old freeze plugs:

[djfordmanjack]

the oil filter adapter needed cleaned out and sealed and the greasy mess called a starter needed cleaned as well. To my surprise I found the og stamp and sealed it with clearcoat. NORS brush set and cut back the insulation on the rotor while at it. Should do for another 60 years...