Timing Jump

[jwag]

On Friday I was driving my Ranchero when I heard a backfire and the engine started running real rough. It would die at idle. It is hard to start  and is obviously out of time (a couple of plugs are obviously firing too soon). It seems to me that  my timing chain has most likely jumped. 

I was able to drive it 20 miles home. No oil pressure loss and it did not overheat but was a pain to keep it running at the stoplights.

The chain is one of the newest item on the engine (maybe 10,000 miles) so I thought it was strange . Is there anything else that it could have been? I checked the distributor and it is tight.

Before I pull the timing cover to inspect I thought I would see if I should check any other items.

Thanks,
Jamie

[gasman826]

carbon tracks in the distributor cap...

[Hoosier Hurricane]

Check for broken valve springs and bent/missing pushrods.

[djfordmanjack]

had same symptoms and it was a bad distributor. faulty mechanical advance  (broken spring) and cheap aftermarket points.

[hiball3985]

Get the engine on #1 TDC on the compression stroke and the timing pointer lined up on TDC on the dampner, pull the distributor cap and see where the rotor is pointing. If the timing chain jumper it won't be pointed to #1 on the cap..

[jwag]

So far, I pulled the covers and found nothing broken or bent. I will pull the cap tomorrow and inspect it and then line it up TDC and see if it has jumped. Thanks for all the information so far. I am going to hope it has not jumped at all. As far as the distributor goes, I have a couple of extras in old engines. That would be my next task. Other than visual inspection, what would be the best way to test the one on it without removing it? I guess I should thoroughly check the plug wires also to make sure  have nothing jumping from one wire to another. Thanks again for the information. I would have hated to pull the timing chain cover only to find that it was not the problem.  Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

[djfordmanjack]

Maybe its simply the spark plugs, old coil, resistor, wire loom. I also found that with modern fuel going bad over 6 months of winter storage ( probably not the problem for you in CA...haha) the plugs tend to foul much earlier in downtown traffic and idling situation in spring. fresh gas and cleaning of plugs or a new set will help.
also a clogged up carb might give false vaccuum readings to the vacc dizzy advance and predetonation might occur as well.
Like I said I had similar symptoms on my 292/2V/Auto 57 wagon and they were all iginition problems.
Aftermarket contact points wear much faster (mostly on the cam fibreplastic insert) and are prone to oxidation as well.

Do not think that if you pull a distributor from another engine, that it will work. Early units had many built-in problems. Chances are good that a used distributor will not work accurately without servicing.

[jwag]

Finally getting around to working on the Ranchero. Cylinder # 1 top dead center, the pointer is about an inch to the left of the #1 wire. This could be interesting. There does not seem to be any slack in the chain. Tomorrow I will pull the cover and find out what happened.

[hiball3985]

Did you actually have #1 piston on TDC or were you going by the timing marks on the dampner?

[jwag]

Both. I took a long fireplace match and stuck it in the spark plug hole to verify that it was all the way up.

[Ford Blue blood]

Yes but it can be all the way up on the exhaust stoke and the timing marker will line up too......Put your finger over the plug hole to be sure you are on the compression stroke.

[jwag]

Well, I am still not through with it ( I have a tendency to procrastinate and lollygag), but this is what I know so far. Timing chain is fine. Distributor is a disaster. It was running great up until the moment that it wasn't and after pulling and inspecting the distributor... I have no idea as to why it was running at all. The shaft is very tight. The lobes are worn and there is a significant difference in point gap from one lobe to another.  I will put it all back together ( with another distributor) and see what happens.

[djfordmanjack]

just what I experienced. Often the mechanical advance is so worn out that it appears to have worn lobes, while it's only out of centre. which affects points gap AND timing on different cylinders. so far in 3 different Y blocks I haven't found one good distributor, they were all badly worn,  pins worn out, gears off timing, mechanical advance with broken springs, faulty vaccuum diaphragms and worn out lobes. You name the problem, after 60 years it's got it.
sometimes it seems to be operating heat and higher rpms which makes them quit from one second to another. I had exactly the same symptoms on the highway last year. it would go from nicely running to stalling and severe backfiring in 5 miles or so. Obviously a mechanical advance spring broke in mine.
I've had about 6 to 10 degrees timing lapses inbetween cylinders , only to find a worn ( 1957 only) breaker plate (ball)bearing. it would wander from one side to the other. I hooked some small springs on the plate and to the edge of the dizzy housing and it was working great now. the springs take out the play of the bearing and will pull to one side.
As faulty as the 57 up distributors appear to be, they lend themselves extremely well for repairs and you really can get them working again with a bit of fiddling and brainwork. don't throw the old one away. In a few years from now it might be better than the modern replacement !

[jwag]

The lobes appeared to be worn but I think you are more on track with it than I am. It is probably more out of center than anything. It almost seemed like the shaft was a little bent also, but once again, it is most likely just out of center. I went through all my extra Y Block parts and found three distributors. I completely dismantled and went through two of them . The third one seemed to be in good shape already. I was unable to dismantle the one I took out of the Ranchero. I could not get the pins out of the shaft.  I thought about buying a reconditioned distributor, but was shocked to see how rare they are and how much the prices have gone up.

[djfordmanjack]

And you never know what somebody really reconditioned.

here is a direct link to when I started rebuilding my distributor.

http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=6705.msg59946#msg59946

I later on added little springs to put a steady pull to one side of the breaker base ( inner ball bearing plate). if the mechanical advance and shaft are severely worn there will probably be no other way to repair, getting the cam lobes equal distance to center except making a new tight bushing.
A friends 55 distributor was so worn that you could wiggle the cam and breaker base so much that the points gap would be everywhere between 1/64 and zero.

sometimes the gear pins get so worn that the gear will rotate on the shaft and actually lock the pin on the worn out ridge.

I had one distributor on a 57 292 that had such a worn pin that the gear was turning back and forth allowing for 35degrees of timing dwell.
Thats probably the reason why so many Y blocks have backfiring as soon as you step off the gas.
Some distributors are said to be much worse than others and generally speaking everything earlier than 57 should be avoided.
I think Jay will have to chime in as he can state the ok and not so good distributors and respective part numbers.

from the 1960s up they had og Ford replacement distributors which had the SBF aluminium housing but were set up with correct gears and shaft for the Y. Its easier to get parts and vacuum units for them. I bought an adjustable vaccuum unit for mine.