Broken Brakes

[Swank]

Morning,
Pulled all the hard brake lines off the frame yesterday.  The rear line where it jumps over the frame wasnt too easy.
The brakes were working for yard driving, but the lines were very rusty and immediately cracked when i loosened the nuts.

I'm planning on running some nicopp back in. Does anybody have a best route for fishing that long line to the rear? 

My other question,  is it worth rebuilding these master cylinders, especially if you cant get the fillcap off? ...dang.

(Trying to keep it basically stock, and im planning to replace the gas line also, someone cut it off before the fuel pump)

[gasman826]

The over-the-frame section of the brake and fuel line is a challenge but doable.  I used shorter pieces of line to manipulate over the frame and make connections to continue.  The brake line in the picture was easy with the body and frame separated but I did the fuel line on the wagon with body and frame assembled.

[gasman826]

just get a reman'ed master cylinder...maybe even upgrade to a duel.

[Ford Blue blood]

What Gary said.  I did both the 58 Edsel and the Ranchero brake lines in two parts.  Putting a splice in just after crossing the frame rail makes it a little easier.  I put the last bend in after it is run through the incredibly small area.  That been is the one that points the line to the front of the car. 

Plenty of rebuilt units available that were re-manned from good cores or as he said (and I recommend too) go to a dual system.

[Swank]

Yeah, i was laying on the carport for a good half hour (wife probably thought i was taking a nap) trying to figure out how to origami the line over the frame.  Think ill go for the connection like yall talking about, right when it makes the bend to head to the front.  Mine also has the little tie down bolt and tab right flat on top of the frame in that little jumper space.

I was originally thinking of going with the dual master.  But then i was thinking to try to keep things stock.  Is your recommendations for the dual master based on performance or safety, or both/neither?

[RICH MUISE]

I'll 3rd the suggestion for the dual master for safety reasons.

[gasman826]

x2 for safety...the car is not original anyway.

[Ford Blue blood]

Make sure you get the metering block as well.

[59meteor]

Regarding the single vs dual resevoir master cylinder debate, over the years, I have had a few brake failures from rusted brake lines or broken rubber flex hose, and with both  styles, and the result was always the same, brake pedal all the way to the floor! I know in theory, the dual master cylinder and proportioning valve is supposed to leave you with partial braking when one side of the system fails, but that has not been my real life experiance. I work at a Toyota dealership, and its not uncommon for 4Runners to get towed in when the brake line over the rear axle gets packed with wet mud, and rots out the steel brake line, and when that happens, the pedal goes right to the floor. Seen it happen many times. Even when you are bleeding the brakes on a car with a dual chamber master setup, the brake pedal always goes all the way down to the floor, right? Much like "self adjusting" drum brakes, sounds good in theory, in reality, not so much.

[rmk57]

Good reason to keep your emergency brake well adjusted.

[Swank]

I am planning on this being a daily driver, so safely stopping using the brakes as opposed to the closest immovable object would be preferable.  Although i do remember bleeding my torino with a dual manual master, with one wheel open the pedal would go straight to the floor.
If I go with a dual manual drum/drum setup, im under the impression a master from a 68-74 mustang will bolt up?  And would that need any prop or residual valves, etc? ...there seems to be 20lbs of online opinions regarding just that aspect.

[hiball3985]

If you include a brake pressure differential valve when changing to a dual master will allow one side like front to maintain pressure if the rear fails or vise a versa. I didn't use one but it's on the list. Also the dual masters like Mustang etc don't use a pressure type brake light switch so it has to be plumbed in line somewhere or converted to a pedal actuated switch..

[rmk57]

Another option and what I used is Wilwoods brake proportioning valve. It keeps your front and rear brake circuits isolated from each other. It also has a rear brake bias knob
to adjust line pressure, handy if you ever did a disc brake conversion. They also come with a threaded brake light switch, like your 57 has.

If you order a drum / drum master for a Mustang, Torino, etc it should have the rubber check valves already in the master. I have a Granada manual disc / drum master and it has
the check valve only in the rear, but it is there.

[Swank]

This is some good info, greatly appreciated. 
One more question, cause i guess ive never really thought about the "how-does-it" functions of the components before, ...on a dual reservior master, are the two tanks completely separated from each other all the time?, ...or will they share fluid under certain circumstances?

[Ford Blue blood]

They are separate.  The larger of the two is for the front disc (in a disc/drum system) because of the volume of the pucks.  As the front pads wear they require more fluid and it is the larger reservoir that ensures the piston has sufficient fluid.

The function of the piston is co-dependent though.  There are three seals in the bore.  The center of the three seals the "disc" half first, it sealing lets the drum half seal up.  A true dual system (early Vettes) have four seals, basically two masters inside the single bore.  That difference is what makes having the "block" in the system a requirement for safety.  The slider in the block will close off the broken part of the system and allow partial braking.  It may take two to three pumps to get partial brakes but you will get partial.