Old Ford pics

[CobraJoe]

55 years ago today; Fire destroys Ford Rotunda



The Ford Rotunda in Dearborn was destroyed by fire on Nov. 9, 1962. The popular attraction originally opened in Dearborn in 1936 at the corner of Rotunda Drive and Schaefer Road.

The Rotunda burned down as its popular annual Christmas Fantasy exhibit was being set up. The blaze was caused by weatherproofing tar that was being applied to the dome. The fire caused the building to collapse within an hour.
Only one injury was reported, but the building was a total loss.

[Tom S]

.... I think the torque tubes weren't that bad of an idea. first the U joint is fully covered and lubricated, and then it put the pushing force of the rear axle directly into the stiffest point of car, the transmission cradle and center X member. remember how Ford built those early cars so flexible on purpose

One disadvantage of the the torque tube setup was that when the transmission's mounting bolts got loose at the frame mount you ended up with clutch chatter. The engine mount bolts also got loose. The whole driveline, engine to rearend, would move ahead in relation to the frame when you started to let out the clutch. With the the clutch linkage being attached to the frame this would cause the clutch to slightly release. Things suddenly move back again & the clutch catches.  It just keeps rapidly repeating.
I've seen this happen to a friend's car & two of my own. Led me to believe that it's not if those bolts got loose, but just a matter of when. It was so bad on the '29 A-V8 I bought that it was almost impossible to get it moving when I first picked it up. Tighten the bolts & all is good.

I'm not so sure that Ford built those early cars flexible on purpose. I think at first that's just the way the skimpy frames were.
As automobile design advanced frames started getting more ridged & much of the flex went away. The torque tube setup also disappeared.
This quote in an article mentions a pic of a '34 Ford with one wheel up on a block. (posts 549 & 551)
"Seen above is an example of that year's production, aptly demonstrating both the rigidity of it's frame and body and the flexibility of it's transverse leaf spring suspension."

[hemidave]

 '54 conv

[SkylinerRon]

The Rotunda fire burned up most of the production records of pre 62 vehicles.
That's why we can't get Marti reports on our 57's.

Ron.

[djfordmanjack]

Tom, I have to disagree slightly. if you ever had a bare A, Deuce or 34 frame in front of you, you might be astounded ( if not shocked) by its flexibility. we are not talking about a boxed hot rod chassis, but factory frames. I once moved an intact 34 frame on a flatbed truck and decided to lift the front first and leave the rear sitting on the truck. I was able to twist the bare frame for several inches by hand, while lifting in front. frame was all intact and not rusted or damaged. they are all open profile beams on purpose. a 34 even has several lightening holes ( not only for exhaust)to keep the strain from the frame while flexing. these are maybe 1/8" thick only. they can in no way be compared to a factory boxed and rigid 57 chassis. You are probably aware of this anyways, since you had both type of cars.
concerning clutch chatter: You probably didnt have them in your A-V8. But Ford used ' stay rods' starting with the 32 Ford. they rigidly tied the engine bellhousing to the K or X member on torque tube drive cars. started with 3/8 diam and became even thicker later on.
if you leave them from a hot rod build, the transmission and engine mounts will have to take the pushing force of the torque tube. which is not a good thing.

One disadvantage of the the torque tube setup was that when the transmission's mounting bolts got loose at the frame mount you ended up with clutch chatter. The engine mount bolts also got loose. The whole driveline, engine to rearend, would move ahead in relation to the frame when you started to let out the clutch. With the the clutch linkage being attached to the frame this would cause the clutch to slightly release. Things suddenly move back again & the clutch catches.  It just keeps rapidly repeating.
I've seen this happen to a friend's car & two of my own. Led me to believe that it's not if those bolts got loose, but just a matter of when. It was so bad on the '29 A-V8 I bought that it was almost impossible to get it moving when I first picked it up. Tighten the bolts & all is good.

I'm not so sure that Ford built those early cars flexible on purpose. I think at first that's just the way the skimpy frames were.
As automobile design advanced frames started getting more ridged & much of the flex went away. The torque tube setup also disappeared.
This quote in an article mentions a pic of a '34 Ford with one wheel up on a block. (posts 549 & 551)
"Seen above is an example of that year's production, aptly demonstrating both the rigidity of it's frame and body and the flexibility of it's transverse leaf spring suspension."

[RICH MUISE]

As long as we're disagreeing this morning, lol............Ron said records were lost in the Rotunda fire. Ron obviously knows a heck of a lot more about historical stuff than I, but I kinda got off on a tangent after Joe posted the Rotunda fire pics to do a little research. One of the long articles I read about the fire stated that records were not lost due to a state of the art fire protection system they installed in the archives section after the Rotunda was dismantled and moved. Might have been the wikipedia article.
I've got to admit, I thought the Rounda still existed which is why I did the research. One article I read said a "duplicate", second rotunda was built many years after, but did not go on to say if that second Rotunda still existed.

[CobraJoe]

...between the jack pictures ( which the only reason I posted it was because I knew it wasn't the same as my jack or others that I have seen, but someone said four different jacks were used) and the Rotunda pics, I really seems to be stirring the $hit around here lately.   



P.S. I don't think the replica has been started yet:  "UPDATE (30.March 2017): A recent update from the Early Ford V-8 Foundation notes that, still short of their $1.9 million fundraising goal by about $500,000, the museum will not begin construction until this summer"

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2016/11/30/rotunda-replica-plans-back-on-for-early-ford-v-8-museum/

[RICH MUISE]

Not "stirring the $hit", just making for great conversation and education! Like it's been talked about before, this forum being a one make, one year forum makes it difficult to keep interest if the posting rules got too strict. So, sometimes the phrase "a picture is worth a thousand words", gets to take on a new meaning for us. Not all of it frequently is not directly '57 Ford related, but we're all car guys with similar interests, so, imho, this "off topic' stuff is really needed to keep this forum alive and well.
This is a link to the wikipedia article I got the info about the archives NOT being lost. Scroll down to "DESTRUCTION". Also below that is some info about the "second Rotunda built for the World's fair in the 60's. IThey did not talk about what happened to that second building.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Rotunda

[djfordmanjack]

Well said Rich. many interesting things going on in this old Ford pics thread. I guess most of our members have a second car interest, and most probably it will have a blue oval on it !
It's a pity that the og Rotunda burned down. I have a few og postcards and literature from the 1934 Chicago world fair where it was first exhibited. 3x 1934 Ford pssgr cars were hung from the ceiling inside. all 3 were attached to a single Ford Wire spoke wheel to show its strength.

[djfordmanjack]

this pic was obviously taken in the extension building to the rear of the main Rotunda.

[djfordmanjack]

[CobraJoe]

[Tom S]

Tom, I have to disagree slightly. if you ever had a bare A, Deuce or 34 frame in front of you, you might be astounded ( if not shocked) by its flexibility.

Don't get me wrong, we are in complete agreement about how
flexy those early frames were. I have had a bare Model A frame in hand & there ain't much to 'em. My modified '32 frame ain't much better.
I only question whether Ford built those early cars flexible on purpose.  The quote touting the rigidity of it's 1934 frame seems to say otherwise. That's a long ways from a model T frame that you could just about bend like a pipe cleaner.

You probably didnt have them in your A-V8. But Ford used ' stay rods' starting with the 32 Ford. they rigidly tied the engine bellhousing to the K or X member on torque tube drive cars.

I mentioned that the clutch chatter thing happened to a friend's car & two of my own. This was the mid 1960s when we were still in high school.  First was with my '47 Tudor, the one with the whitewall on the front only. The PO had done some minor hot rod mods to that car & it didn't have those stay rods/steady rods.  He had probably removed them.
Second time was with a friends '48 4 door.  It was pretty much stock but it's quite possible someone had removed the steady rods on that one too. Maybe they didn't know what they were for.  A bunch of us kids with cars were out on a big drinkin' party at a lake about 70 miles from home when the '48 acted up. I fixed his '48's problem right there 'cause the guy with the '48 didn't have a clue about it.
I don't think I even learned about those steady rods until about 15 years later & forgot about 'em since.

[Tom S]

Well said Rich. many interesting things going on in this old Ford pics thread. I guess most of our members have a second car interest, and most probably it will have a blue oval on it !

[CobraJoe]

 

... just making for great conversation and education! Like it's been talked about before, this forum being a one make, one year forum makes it difficult to keep interest if the posting rules got too strict. So, sometimes the phrase "a picture is worth a thousand words", gets to take on a new meaning for us. Not all of it frequently is not directly '57 Ford related, but we're all car guys with similar interests, so, imho, this "off topic' stuff is really needed to keep this forum alive and well.

Glad you guys feel that way, I'll do my part to try and generate traffic. As long as I still have material, I'll keep posting.