REALLY REALLY bad day today.

[RICH MUISE]

Thanks guys, right now I'm so depressed it's hard to think straight about it. No matter what direction this ends up taking, I'm also sure at minimum I've lost the entire summer, and with my age/health etc, I had been thinking that this had a good chance of being my last one. Long roadtrips are getting increasingly hard on me.
My local speed shop friend who is somewhat knowledgeable about these engines, said he thought it was likely I would have enough damage done to require a rebuild. He also though it was more likely damage would be in the crankshaft/rod bearings rather than the top end. Having this one rebuilt is probably out of financial consideration at this time, but I need to do more research on that.
No way, I was told, for any engine without a distributor to get access to the oil pump, although late night I did find an article about using a garden type pressure pump rigged with fittings to hook up at the oil pressure sending port. My thought yesterday was cranking the starter a little (with spark plugs out) would  activate the oil pump and get some lubrication going. After doing that, I reinstalled the plugs, etc and tried starting it. I immediately stopped when it backfired, as I'm assuming that was telling me there is a timing issue, which I'm also assuming is indicating timing chain problems/damage. I just don't know. I haven't totally given up on this engine yet.
Gunther, removing the valve covers on these exposes all 4 cams and the top end of the timing chains, but you can't loosen up the chains without removing the timing chain covers.

[RICH MUISE]

Jim.....not sure what the computer is capable of doing. Only thing I know for sure at this point is that the computer will sense that the engine is not running and will shut off the fuel pump. When the car started dying on the freeway, I was just able to coast normally over to the side of the road. Stepping on the gas had no response whatsoever. I've never had it happen, but in a non computerized car,  if an engine seized while the car was still in drive, wouldn't it have a big drag on the car speed?, With that in mind, I figured there was a chance the computer sensed the no oil pressure and shut it down. That's why I cleared the computer, which was a big mistake, because I should have read the stored codes before I did that.

[hiball3985]

Rich I understand the age and health issues at our age, when I swapped Y blocks a couple of years ago it almost killed me. I've never had an engine freeze while driving so I don't know but I'm sure it would slow down. Back in the 70's my wife over heated a 390, cooling problem but it had oil, it made it in the driveway but before I could get the hood open it seized, let it cool over night and it started up and ran with no problem.
I would give using the external pump idea a try, not much to lose if it doesn't work..

[RICH MUISE]

One of the Hamb guys suggested the backfiring could be from dry valve stems hanging up, not necessarilyfrom timing issues as I was thinking.
LOL, another Hamb guy said he'd be greiving for a week before he could even think about working on it. I laughed, it was nice to have guys understand, unlike my wife who yesterday basically said, yeah, you found out your life got screwed up an hour ago, what's the matter now?

[hiball3985]

Grieving for a few days may be a good suggestion, I couldn't do it and sleep at night.

[ragtop]

what I wood do is pull the plugs give 1 pump of atf. in each cylinder and make sheer the battery is up or on a charger and hit the key until your oil gauge has presser if that works ok put plugs back and start it remember if it starts it will smoke a lot until the atf. is out 

[Ecode70D]

Rich
     I am grieving with you.   You put a lot of time into getting your car set up just the way you wanted , and have been driving all over the place with it.  This is a real bummer.  Hopefully you will get everything straightened out and will be able to put all of this behind you in time for some summer driving.
      If the engine has to be replaced, I hope that you will get a replacement that does not require
changing the wiring system. 
       Unfortunately I put on the blinders when they started to put computers and confusing stuff into the vehicles, so I'm not much help.
Jay

[gasman826]

My sympathies.  I can see wanting to do upgrades like OBDII.  BUT, upgrades take time and money.  Wrecking yards should be able to provide you a low mileage (100-120k), guaranteed 4.6 for $300-500.  If you can't hear it run, you should be able to inspect the donor and get the VIN.  Easiest, cheapest and fastest way to get back on the road.

[Ford Blue blood]

Rich I'm in the same boat as you, well maybe not, but the same lake!  The 351C in the Ranchero has not run since before Labor day weekend.  Medical issues and the thought of all the possibilities just overwhelmed me until a friend came over and found the bad valve seat. Got the seat fixed but life has prevented trying to run the stupid thing...

The daunting task ahead can be very overwhelming and the ultimate feeling of failure adds to the level of loss.  Put the thing aside for a few days, ponder your belly button (or your wifes), then go out and look, think, and crank again with the plugs out.  Won't hurt it any worse to crank it long and hard until oil pressure comes up (or not) then try the start again if the oil comes up.

If it won't run keep on trying, (remember you dumped the computer so it has to re-learn how to run the engine), they don't like being taken off the battery (the keep alive) and certainly don't like being dumped.  If it won't behave then sit back and try to figure which way to go.  Gary is correct with the junk yard idea.  You can swap all the "stuff" off your current engine to the "new" long block and the computer is smart enough to learn the new cams and you should be back in business.

[RICH MUISE]

Yes, lots of them available for not too much money.......but a ton of work, wouldn't go that route without being able to hear it run. I've got a 160k mile motor I pulled out of the first donor Mark VIII I never used.
A little progress.....I think. My motor went from cranking real tight to a normal spin, so that's good, along with the fact there are no strange noises when it is spinning. Would not start though. Posibly flooded though.
My neighbor came over while I was trying to start it...he's worked on stuff all his life, and said it didn't sound to him like the engine had compression. So that's next..........I'll be going out shortly to run a compression test on it, and see where that leads. No compression could mean a broken timing chain or valve problems...........either would get it into a rebuild mode because if a timing chain broke something caused it to break. My neighbor thought if it was valves stuck, we'd hear it. I've said so many times, I'm not a mechanic. Sure wish I knew more about this stuff.

[djfordmanjack]

Rich in your own words you stated that fuel pump is run from computer, who knows what else. backfiring can also be had on lean mixture, ie no fuel pressure. I don't know these motors, but I surely wouldn't give up, nor resign. up to this point you have no way of knowing if the motor is a total loss, or you have just small mechanical problems, or - only computer trouble. you know how these things won't run even with the smallest sensor or digital info missing. who knows what the computer is at after the oil loss and reset. Now that the engine turns over easily, you need to find out, what else could be wrong. step by step. No need to throw the towel. we have all been through this or similar situations. almost ready to give up. But we don't do that. we are getting things fixed ! You can do that ! G.

[Ford Blue blood]

Rich just keep feeding updates with as precise as possible info....one of us might have the "fix" or been there and recognize the problem.  Hang in there guy!

[rmk57]

  Hopefully the oil pump is still functional.

[RICH MUISE]

Hey Bill, I was hoping you'd see this thread as you're one of the few here that have exper. with the mod motors that I'm aware of.
I think the compression test I just did is verifying I have major problems. Never have done a compression test before, borrowed a Mac's Tools tester from my friend.
I disabled the fuel pump, pulled the 4 coils and plugs from one bank. Exactly 50 lbs. in all 4. According to a you tube video, the test should be done with throttle all the way to the floor. That's what I did, even though I believe the reason for that is that it disables the injectors, which didn't matter since I disabled the fuel pump. I cranked it for about 8-10 seconds per cylinder. Even had my wife crank it once to make sure the gage was holding at the high point, and it was.

[RICH MUISE]

RMK.....I believe the oil pump is fine as the engine really started loosening up after the initial cranking. All of my gauges go to zero when the ignition switch is all the way to start, but the oil pressure gauge would jump to about 60 lbs. or so immediatly after turning the key off, before gong back to zero.