transmission compatibility

[terry_208]

Can anyone tell me if the 57 3 speed o/d transmission is compatible with the sbf?

[mustang6984]

My FE motors worked with my T-85 O/D transmissions...until I blew them up of course. I would think with the proper bell housing would be no problem.

[terry_208]

Thanks for the reply Hugh

My concern isn't with the longevity of the transmission but rather will it bolt up to the bell housing and the proper length of the  input shaft.  I know the wimpy sb, in stock form, can't match the torque of the big block.  Trying to plan ahead,  manual or auto, 389 third member or 3.0.

I'm still recovering from shoulder surgery done in November.  The MD says I won't be recovered until at least August.  Talk about a change of plans. 

[brushwolf]

Yes, those all fit to bellhousing just the same as an early toploader or early Ford T10. All same input length as far as I have seen..

Need a narrow pattern, or dual pattern version of either the transmission or 157t flywheel bellhousing.  Or use a 70's 351 pickup 164t flywheel bellhousing and drill out the bosses that are cast into them for the narrow pattern.  Or find a used SBF Lakewood bell cuz they have both patterns also.

Generally speaking the 49-64 narrow front transmission bolt pattern is the same, whether the transmission is a 3 speed T85, T86, O/D or non-O/D, a T10, or a toploader. There are other differences to consider like shifter position, tailhousing length, driveshaft, clutch spline count, but they can all be fit. I have at least one of every transmission mentioned, multiples of some. They will all work.

I have had surgery on both shoulders and both recovered well. Good luck with yours. Don't strain it too quickly even if anxious to get back on your project.

[terry_208]

Thanks. 

I knew the spline count was different on some transmissions. So a clutch disc must be matched to the input shaft.  I am planning to install a new clutch when I assemble the drivetrain.  My next step is to dig out the bell housing and check the bolt pattern. 

This was my fourth shoulder surgery but the longest recovery.  The last time this shoulder was repaired was in 96, so I am a couple years older and completely different surgery techniques. 

[SkylinerRon]

 The pilot nose of your 57 trans is too short to go all the way into the pilot bearing of a small block. Most FE's and Y-Blocks trans' noses are the same length, 302's are longer by about 7/16".
               
Also make sure the trans will fit all the way into the bellhousing.                                                                                                                           

There are two different sizes of the trans front bearing retainer.

Good luck,

Ron.

[terry_208]

Thanks Ron,

I was going to check out the input shaft length as I seem to remember a bushing that extended behind the crankshaft a little bit. 

[brushwolf]

Yes, the aftermarket and a lot of chains sold a wider brass pilot bearing  version to address that length difference.  Wider than the typical small block version. 

[SkylinerRon]

The hardest swap for a 57 is the small block, all the other Ford V-8's (FE, Y-Block, 460 Lima) are easier.

The 302 would not be my choice for a 57. Y-Block has more torque, and the big blocks can just loaf along and are amazingly serviceable.

Ron.

[terry_208]

I don't really want to run the factory connected c4 behind the 302 and could change out the 389 rear for 3.0.  I figured the the 3 spd o/d unit would give me better options in the rpm range than the c4. If I run an auto I really want to run an AOD to improve highway mileage.  I'm considering this a cheap transitional motor to get the car on the road.

[Lou]

The C4 behind the 302 would probably give you just as good gas mileage as the 3 speed o/d with the 3.89 (3.89 x .70 = 2.72)  which is only a 8% difference, which I doubt would give you 8% better mileage. I believe the 3 speed o/d swap would cost you a more than you will ever save, unless your C4 needs is worn out. 

[brushwolf]

Here is the Advance Adapter part number for pilot bushing designed for use with the short nose toploader or T85

Part number 716174

[brushwolf]

and T10 in your case..

[59meteor]

The C4 behind the 302 would probably give you just as good gas mileage as the 3 speed o/d with the 3.89 (3.89 x .70 = 2.72)  which is only a 8% difference, which I doubt would give you 8% better mileage. I believe the 3 speed o/d swap would cost you a more than you will ever save, unless your C4 needs is worn out.

While the freeway RPM may be similar with a C4 and 3.00 gears, and the 3 speed with OD and 3.89s, the performance with the steeper 3.89 gears and manual would be much better. Now, the only 57 Ford 3 speed manuals that I have ever driven were the conventional, non overdrive versions, having a non syncronized 1rst gear is not a great thing, not sure if the OD models are also non syncro low. Now, if it was MY car, with a 302, I would look for a T5 5 speed from a 5.0 Mustang. I have installed T5s in a couple of warmed over 302 powered Fairmont daily drivers that I used to drive to work, and drag race on weekends, and I really liked them. They have a lower first gear ratio than the old 3 speeds (fully syncronized of course.), nicely spread ratios, plus the overdriven 5th. They shift quite nicely as well, I had Hurst shifters in both cars. They are not as strong as an old Toploader 4 speed, but even with the heavier weight of a 57, I think a T5 would be a great choice with a mild 302, as long as you were not racing it with slicks every weekend. Of course, you would have to have a floor shifter, and unless you spent the $$$ on a S10 style shifter relocation, you would likely need to loose, or modify the original bench seat. One of my Fairmonts had the bench seat, and the Hurst shifter just cleared the seat if I had the seat adjusted almost all the way back. Not sure how the seat to shifter location on a 57 would compare.

[SkylinerRon]

Trans and rear gear ratios can make or break a car.

Most of the new style trans' shifters are in the middle of the hump and way too far back.

If Tremec would build a trans with the old style Hurst shifter on the side I'd buy one in a flash. Taking the shifter parts off the top of the trans
would mean many older cars could use one without hacking up their tunnels and floors.

Ron.