EFI Fuel Tank

[lalessi1]

FYI, I found a fuel tank for our cars that has an EFI pump mount already built-in in addition to the fuel level mount. Bob Drake PN 91076078. On sale ( being discontinued I suspect) for $205. I ordered one this morning from Bob Drake. Speedway has the same tank for $350.... Classic City is out of stock on a standard tank.

[RICH MUISE]

Are you going to use an in-tank pump? If so, I've got a recommendation for the fuel line connections.

[lalessi1]

I am going to put an in tank pump. I am in the process of convincing myself to go with EFI  on my FE. I have been fighting what I thought was a fuel pressure problem which turned to be the gauge 4 pumps later. Once my engine temp gets past about 195 the engine does not want to run. I have a recirculating fuel supply system to try to keep the gas from getting too hot but when the A/C is running the car seems undependable. I have tried a lot of things to solve this problem and it has gotten better but it is still an issue.

Fuel line connection info is ALWAYS welcome!

[RICH MUISE]

The Drake tank seems to have the pump mounting flange in the same position where I put mine. It's the logical location given the usual fuel line routing on the passenger side. However, there is a trunk floor support that is right behind the tank, making it difficult to pass the double wall rubber fuel line past it. My support is "dimpled" heavily where those two lines pass. Years ago, I had an issue with one of the lines rubbing thru and leaking.
Last week when I was replacing the fuel sending unit's cork gasket, I got to thinking a much better plan for the fuel lines would have been to make some fittings from the steel fuel line that would run out and down past the mentioned floor brace. 3/8 fuel line is much smaller than the heavy wall rubber. At that point, once past the floor support, you could hook up the rubber flexible connector line.

[hiball3985]

I am going to put an in tank pump. I am in the process of convincing myself to go with EFI  on my FE. I have been fighting what I thought was a fuel pressure problem which turned to be the gauge 4 pumps later. Once my engine temp gets past about 195 the engine does not want to run. I have a recirculating fuel supply system to try to keep the gas from getting to hot but when the A/C is running the car seems undependable. I have tried a lot of things to solve this problem and it has gotten better but it is still an issue.

Fuel line connection info is ALWAYS welcome!

Lynn, are you using a phenolic type spacer between the carb and manifold?

[lalessi1]

Yes, I have a 1/2" phenolic spacer and a carb insulator kit made by Quick Fuel. I have a Griffin radiator with (2) 12" Spal fans. I am using an electric vane  pump regulated to 7 psi with a return line. The fuel lines are routed between the fender and the cowl and run up over the heater fan to the fuel block mounted by the hood latch. I even have a cowl induction setup to provide ambient air to the carb. I have explored (and am still considering) cutting a radiator core support and modifying the hood hinges to allow the use of a 18" x 28" radiator with (2) 14" fans!

[hiball3985]

Lynn, I seem to recall you have been dealing with the heating for some time in older posts. I don't recall all the particulars but I'm sure we went through things like backward head gasket. Fans don't do anything at speed, its all about air flow. I think I would be looking at timing issues, either too much or not enough.

[lalessi1]

I am looking into the timing now. Looking at the A/F ratio as well the exhaust header temps at idle are a little high I think. I am just of the opinion that a 462 putting out 500 hp is making a TON of heat. Thinking that the engine bay is maybe a little confined and opening up the radiator support (for a bigger radiator and fans) and ducting a little air from the inner fenders would do the trick. I just really don't want to hack up the car that much. The radiator people told me that the engine really isn't overheating at a 195 degrees (with the A/C on) and I tend to agree. Hence the thoughts about EFI!

On a side note I found out that a liquid filled pressure gauge will constantly loose pressure as it heat ups. My gauge when installed in the backpressure regulator would fall steadily from 6 psi to 0 as the temp went up. I moved it inside the car and it holds steady. It just so happened that the engine rpm would start to drop and the engine would die as the pressure "was falling". The recirculating line dropped the fuel line temp by at least 30 degrees by infrared gun routed the way I described, the engine doesn't die as readily now.

[gasman826]

My '57 Custom had no engine or radiator in it when I got it.  The donor car was a '76 Lincoln.  The first version was the stock 460 and C6.  Since I had no radiator and I was stealing stuff from the Lincoln and the 460 ran cool in the Lincoln, I put the Lincoln radiator in the '57.  The '57 core support was so far from fitting, I made a core to fit the radiator, hood hinges, inner fenders and frame attachment.  The radiator was so wide, I had to notch the frame to fit.  Unfortunately, the radiator was too close to the water pump to use the Lincoln 7 blade, 19" clutch fan.  Instead, I installed the Lincoln shroud and a fixed blade fan.  No cooling issues.  Version two had AC, a 460 + .030 forged pistons with 13.0 CR, aluminum heads, and full solid roller cam that dino'ed 505HP and 555FPT and minimal over heating issues.  The current version three still has AC but now sports the 460 with 557 ci stroker kit with 10.5 CR with a little over 700HP and 735 FPT.  I assumed there would be over heating issues so I modified the core support to move the new largest, universal Griffin radiator forward to allow water pump clearance to add the Lincoln 19" clutch fan.  With no thermostat, I broke the engine in and couldn't get enough temperature (160) to get the EFI computer in closed loop.  I added a 190 degree thermostat.  With a new engine (120 miles) and summer heat, the temp gauge and temp gun have not exceeded 200 degrees.  The other day, I left it warm up for 20 minutes and then went for a drive of 15 miles.  The temp never exceeded 190 degrees.  The gravel guard and inner fenders are not modified except for the fender well headers.  Compression, bore, timing, AFR, fan shrouds, and electric fans can all influence over heating issues so I'm just sharing what I did.

The Raunch Wagon had 550HP and the Griffin bolt-in radiator for the stock OEM core support.  I tried the '98 Lincoln electric fan set up as pusher with OK results.  I changed it to puller fan with better success but fan still ran a lot.  I later changed to Cooling Components dual 14" fans and Dakota Digital fan controller, this setup just does the job and is still in the car in New Zealand.

I think it is really hard to beat a large mechanical fan with a properly fitting shroud on a large, 1 or 1-1/4" core radiator.

[hiball3985]

I agree, 195 isn't bad at all. Reminds me of a problem a friend had with his 55 Bird over heating a slow stop and go traffic, Birds are know for that and there are after market thing made to help. He did all of them including an aluminum radiator and electric fan. It did better at lower speed but got worst on the freeway. We pulled our hair out for a few days before I noticed how dark the anti freeze was in the overflow catch can. He had filled the system with straight anti freeze thinking that would be better  We got it back to 60% water 40% anti freeze and it never heated again..

[gasman826]

I also do the 35-40% coolant to distilled water ratio.

[lalessi1]

 I am running 70/30 (and a water wetter) and I added a coolant recovery can on the radiator. I have moved the radiator 2"forward but the belt drive system limits the space between the engine and the radiator for the factory type clutch fan I have. The only thing i haven't tried is is a shroud with the Flex-A-Lite fan I also have. Gary, your core support gave me the option to go to a bigger radiator seeing how you modified the hood hinges. It would be cheaper and easier to go with a simple EFI setup than buy a custom radiator. I will look at the Griffin universal fit radiator you mentioned. Thank all for the comments.

[gasman826]

PIC 1 -- Griffin two 1" cores.  This is a bolt-in into the OEM core support.  I welded 1-1/2" spacers to push the radiator forward.
PIC 2 -- Cooling Components duel 14" fans with shroud.  Using two fans allows the water pump to fit between the fan motors.  The Dakota Digital fan controller allows setting the fans on and off at most any temperature.  A run-after key off is optional.  It also interfaces with the AC.  The fans are 2 speeds.  I wired both fans on low or both fans on high.  Cooling Components does not rate their fans by CFMs.  However, they do recommend a 70 amp breaker for each fan.  I had a 200 amp 3G alternator and it nearly stalled the engine when the fans kicked on.  The wiring recommendations are the heaviest of any electric fan I've messed with.
PIC 3 -- Very tight between water pump and radiator.
The lower part of the gravel guard was cut to install the pusher fan so it is still open.  The fans did not run when going down the road...only in stop-n-go traffic.

Is there any chance that the cam timing was degreed in too advanced or retarded?

[lalessi1]

I have the same radiator moved 2" forward in a stock radiator support. The distance between the face of the radiator and the bolts on the water pump pulley is 3 1/2". I am using a (2) 8v belt setup from CVF Racing. The A/C belt on the left side of the engine limits the fan depth to about 2 1/2". The Cooling Components fan/shroud you used would not fit if I remember. Based on Griffin's recommendation I used Spal fans. I went with 12" and used a shroud wider than the core similar to how you mounted the CC shroud. I am using a Derale controller that is wired to turn both fans on high at 140 degrees, they can be turned on by the A/C or a manual switch.

The cam timing is supposed to be straight up.

[lalessi1]

Update... I spoke to Griffin again and they recommended a simple test to see if the airflow was sufficient. Put a fan in front of the radiator and see what happens after extended idling. I just tried this with mystifying results. It is/was 88 degrees ambient. Started the engine and let it idle for 40 minutes with the A/C on. All was really good the temp stayed at 180-185. Noticed the RPM starting to drop (it was under 500rpm and about to die) the fuel gauge showed 0 psi. WTF! Now I am REALLY looking at EFI, specifically the Edelbrock Pro4 system. Also designed a shroud for the 7 blade 18" Flex-a-lite fan I have. Haven't pulled any triggers yet other than the EFI tank.