Wide pattern (cast Iron) top loader trans to narrow bellhousing

[cos]

Hello Members  Can a wide pattern (later model) toploader four speed  (cast Iron)  be rebored to fit narrow pattern bellhousing. Some of early wide pattern trans had both patterns as I remember. Thanks for any info.

[terry_208]

I had a late model bellhousing drilled, a bung welded to the inside and tapped, so I could install the 3 speed o/d to it. They also made a space to fit the front trans bearing retainer to the larger hole in the bellhousing.  My bellhousing is aluminum.

[59meteor]

What engine, transmission, and bellhousing, are you dealing with? I have a 1966 Fairlane Toploader 4 speed , with a 1961 (narrow pattern), FE car bellhousing, behind the 428 Cobra Jet FE in my 59. My Toploader has both the narrow and wide pattern case, Only the 1964 Toploaders have only the narrow pattern, every Toploader built after that, right thru the end of Toploader production, have both the narrow and wide pattern. Another oddity with the 64 Toploader, and earlier BW T10 and 3 speeds, use a smaller diameter front bearing retainer, so with a later Toploader 3 are 3 options to get around that. 1 is to find a 64 only front bearing retainer, and swap it onto the later Toploader, the other is to use a later model bellhousing, which also will have the wide bolt pattern for the Toploader, but will also require the later short nose starter and 184 tooth flywheel, and the 3rd option, is to have the bore in the early bellhousing opened up to the later dimension. In my case, I had my early bellhousing bored out. I did have a later bellhousing, as well as a Lakewood scattershield, but the early bells used a different position for the clutch fork, the 61 bellhousing worked fine with my factory clutch linkage, the later bellhousings had the fork lower, by about 1 1/2", so the factory clutch linkage would not work without reworking. Looking from the back, the early bell has the fork at about a "9 O`Clock position, where the later bells were about 8 O`Clock. The early bell works fine with the later 184 tooth flywheel and short nose starter, as long as you add a later sheetmetal "block plate" between the engine block and the bellhousing.
Now, if your transmission has ONLY the wide pattern case, I have to assume that it is not an actual Toploader 4 speed, but an Orion 3 speed with an overdriven "4th gear". Those transmissions were used in the 70s Ford Granadas, Econoline vans, and light duty F100/150 PU trucks, in the later 70s-early 80s. You can ID those 3 speed/OD transmissions by the wide only case pattern, a bulge in the side of the case, and an oddball shifter mounting setup. (2 short horizontal bosses, with 2 bolt holes per boss, in an angled pattern. They look similar to e "real" Toploader, but I have no idea if the transmission mount, length, and front bearing retainer are the same .

[cos]

Thanks for replys.  59 meteor---- Bellhousing  is a Y-block and trans is a top loader 3/OD. I don't owe it, just a idea for OD. I have been reading up on  them. Sounds like the only ones that are popular are the close ratio trans. But if they will not bolt up without a adaptor it will not work of me. Boring one to narrow pattern would not be a problem. I should have said it was a y-block, I forget ever 57 does not have a YB engine. I have narrow pattern TL 4 speed and a t-85 OD just not liking low non syncro. Probably just buying trouble.

[59meteor]

OK, if it was me, I would be looking for a T5 5 speed from a 83 thru 93 5.0 Mustang. A nice, low first gear for easy take off, decent gear ratios , with an overdriven 5th. Aluminum case for light weight, easy shifting, and you can even retain your existing clutch , if it`s in good condition. You can either buy a Quicktime bellhousing($$$), or buy an adapter to fit the T5 to your narrow pattern Toploader. Not as strong as a Toploader 4 speed, but I doubt that you would hurt a T5 even with a healthy 312. I have ran T5s behind a nice 302 in my high 12 second street strip Fairmont for years, and never broke it. Main question would be if the shifter would clear a stock bench seat, although my Fairmont had a bench seat, and it was a smaller car. You can even still buy new T5s, if you want to spend that much money.