REALLY REALLY bad day today.

[RICH MUISE]

I think I probably lost the engine in my '57 today. Haven't crawled under to look, but apparently when I did the oil change yesterday, I overtightened the oil filter and lost the seal......then the oil. Took it out to go to the car wash, wasn't sure what had happened other than the car just started losing power, then died. As soon as the tow truck pulled up to my driveway, I knew what happened...........big trail of new Mobil one. Yep, I didn't do any of the things needed when you change oil...........I didn't check for leaks with the engine running, and I never looked at my Oil pressure gage.
Anyways, got to ask the gurus........any chance I didn't lose it completly? Or is that a nil posibility. I drove it about 4 miles before it seized. No loud noises at least that my almost deaf ears could hear. How do I go about checking? would pulling the plugs and soaking it with tranny fluid do any good. I can pull the valve covers and visually check and lubricate the cams......but am I wasting my time?
If I was still limber enough to kick myself in the butt I'd be doing it.

[rmk57]

first thing I would do is cut the oil filter open and inspect for metal particles. If you find metal debris in it then you may be screwed, if it looks clean then try refilling with fresh oil and run it. Warm it up with the new oil then dump it out and refill with your Mobil 1. No loud noises is a good sign. I had a 390 years ago that lost a rod bearing and it made quite a bit of noise before it finally quit.

[RICH MUISE]

I'll do that,  RMK, thanks, but I'm wondering if any potential metal particles would have made it to the filter since there was no oil to carry them there. I'm hoping after I put oil and a new filter in it, it'll crank over......but I'm also thinking....... I tried starting on the side of the road after it died, and it wouldn't, now that I know what was going on, the engine was obviously seized from excessive heat. I'm not sure if I should even see if it's still seized after cooling, or if I need to get lubrication to as much as possible (penetrating oil in cylinders, cams, etc) before even trying that. I'll wait for suggestions, opinions before I do anything.

[rmk57]

Once you fill it with new oil try turning it over on the crank pulley with a breaker bar to see if it's locked up or not. Remove the plugs first and it wouldn't hurt to squirt penetrating oil down the cylinders.

Whats happened to me a couple times is when I remove the old filter the rubber gasket stays on the block. Then when you spin a new filter on you have two rubber gaskets that can get bunched up. I did that once and when I started the engine to check for leaks it was pouring out fresh oil.

[chapingo17]

I would remove the oil filter install a new one. Add oil and see if it turns over. If the engine didn't over heat you should be ok. Did the engine overheat?

[RICH MUISE]

Hey Eric, no it did not overheat. I just got back with a new filter and oil. I'll change the filter, add oil, and pull the plugs as RMK suggested. It'll take a while to do that....lots of stuff to remove to get to 7 of the plugs, and have to move the hydroboost over a little to get to the 8th. Good project for tommorrow.
Anybody know what they were mixing with ATF to make a good penetrating oil......for some reason I'm thinking acetone, but not sure. and how much do you put in, and how? My spark plug holes are about 6" deep.

[John Palmer]

ATF mixed with Acetone, is the poor mans penetrating oil.

I think your issue will be, did it seize up because the crank would not turn because the rods were starved for oil.  Or did it stop running because the engine was hot and the pistons seized up in the cylinders?  You need to turn it over by hand to diagnosis.

I would have a good oil pressure test gauge connected, when you get it fired back up.  If it "sounds OK", and it has good oil pressure ( checked at both hot and cold, at idle and 2000 RPM), I would drive it and see what happens.


Many years ago, my wife lost a water pump seal while driving in our '64 Fairlane "K" code 271 HP car, with the radio and A/C turned on.  It was summer time, in Phoenix, so you know how hot it can get.  The engine got so hot, it seized up and stopped running.  I replaced the water pump, pulled the heads, inspected the cylinders, checked the flatness of the heads, put it back together with a fresh valve job, and drove the car for thousands of miles without even one issue.

Sorry Rich, but S..t sometimes happens to all of us.

[59meteor]

Rich, don`t you have a "Mod OHC" engine in your 57? My fingers are crossed for you, but I have found that most ''Modern'' engines, especially overhead cam versions, to be much less forgiving when adequate lubrication in present. Much tighter clearances, more elaborate oiling routing, steel camshafts riding directly on the aluminum head castings, etc, mean less tolerance for lack of oil than older '' old tech'' engines with lots of miles on them. Hopefully you get lucky, but if not, all the tricks for freeing up a stuck engine seldom for a good, long term outcome. If the cams and crank are galled to the bearing surfaces, thats a major issue.

[RICH MUISE]

Yes, dohc 4.6, and you are correct, the 4 cams ride directly in the aluminum heads. I was really surprised when I first heard that, as these engines are generally capable of very high mileage. 300k plus is not unusual.

[djfordmanjack]

Too bad Rich, sorry ! first thing that comes to my mind is, can you prime the oil passages on the 4.6 ?

the engine just stalling from excessive heat and friction doesn't mean it's scrap. remember when you want to break in a fresh engine and the starter won't even turn because of friction on fresh bores. had that happening before.
I would think the the crank bearings could get damaged.

like others said, if you can get it oiled and running you would have to cut open and inspect another fresh oil filter after a short time, like 10 minutes run time. if there really was damage to rotating surfaces they should get spilled out to the filter, unless the oil passages are totall blocked by bearing metal by now. which hopefully they are not.

Marvel Mystery oil is still good stuff to put on top of pistons. I really don't think the pistons are seized though. leave the spark plugs out on first crank to let excessive penetrating fluid splatter from plug holes in case. you don't want a hydro lock.
Good luck. Rich ! fingers crossed !

[RICH MUISE]

No luck at all so far. I changed the filter,  filled the oil, pulled the plugs. I moved the crankshaft pulley a little, but spent 1/2 hour trying to get the long breaker bar to engage the nut so I could turn it further with no luck. everything was in the way of the long bar. I could get my shorter breaker bar on it, but I wasn't strong enough to move it. I said screw it, put a chaulk mark on the crankshaft pulley, and hit the starter real briefly. That showed me the crank was in fact turning. So I thought good, the crank is not frozen. I put the plugs and coils back in, hooked everything up, and tried to start it. Sounded very tight. I only hit the starter 3 or 4 times for maybe 4 or 5 seconds a shot. The last time I tried, it backfired.
Rebuilding these things are very expensive, and I'm guessing this engine is going to need it, so not sure what I'm going to do at this point. I always felt lucky I had found this lo miles one, doubt it's gonna happen again at an reasonable price.

[Wirenut]

Sorry to hear of your bad news Rich. I know you have to be sick over that motor. I've been amazed at where you've been driving that car since you got it running. Glad to see you getting so much use out of it. Good luck on finding a replacement for it or having it repaired.
If I see a low mile replacement in this area I'll let you know.

[RICH MUISE]

thanks.......93-95 Lincoln Mark VIII. I'd prefer a 96 because it's an OBD 2 system, but that's only something I could consider if everything else being perfect.......low miles, low price, etc. If I go 96, it'll probably would be another 1k for a wiring change.

[djfordmanjack]

Rich, I would not overdo all of those bad thoughts right now. you just cranked it a few times. there is no way that oil has already got to the bearings. you need to think out how to prelube all the friction surfaces.
is there a way to inspect the heads in car ? can you slacken the cam drive so you can wiggle the cams by hand, are they accessible? Although I have no clue about these modern engines. take your time in saving the engine! good luck !

[hiball3985]

YIKES!!!! What sad news to start the day. I don't know about these new engines but I would crank it with the plugs removed and see if you build any oil pressure. It will probably take some good cranking to fill the filter and all the oil galleries before the oil reaches the bearings.

I'll ask a dumb question since I don't know but don't these computer controlled engines have some safety thing built in that when the oil pressure drops it would shut down the engine?