hi, someone asked me and i couldn't tell, is a rag top worth more then a hard top conv?, or vise versa, i saw a hard top conv go for 32 on Barris Jackson the other day, which i thought was low, jerry
Jerry,
As far as I'm concerned yes. It's not that the hardtop convertable isn't covited, it is. It's just that the ragtop is more rare. Jim
The ragtop seems is more sought after.
The survival rates of the retracts were very good because of the novilty of the mechanical top in comparison to the ragtops, which in there day were not as unique and had bad rust issues.
Retracts were often saved from the crusher because everyone though the must be worth a bunch of money.
They both are cool in my book.
We have examples of both in my family, and the ragtop seems to be used more as, it is shorter and easier to make a hot rod out of.
I'd never use Barret-Jackson as a price/value indicator, There is a lot of emotion there that affects the price, that being said by their very nature convertibles tend to rot out in greater numbers that any thing else which means less survivors. Not having a gutter rail above the door means every time you open either door on a rainy day a certain amount of water will enter your car and be trapped in your carpet. Drive a convertible any amount of time in a wet climate and you soon learn to hesitate getting out or end up with a wet leg. And as the tops start breaking down the elements will start invading. Nothing more harmful than wet carpet sitting on top of floor boards, The retracts lasted longer for reasons already covered.
Zap- :burnout:
Not pertaining to value, but if I never see a flip top with the top
half open at a car show it won't hurt my feelings.
i have a october 2009 oldcars price guide.a #3 car[most driver show cars are #3]they say the convert is worth $18,900.the retractable is worth $20,700.so they are close
hi, look up between 1 & 2, its not dealer clean underneath, but close, but then they use to undercoat back in those days, jerry
Guys,
I'm sure the worth of a 57 Ford no matter what body style is directly related to the passion we have toward our vehicles. Putting a money figure on the passion that led us to buy and restore a 57 Ford far exceeds the realistic value of our cars. My car is realistically worth about half as much as I put into it. But, if you tried to buy it from me I'd ask for every penny I put into it and then some. If a 57 Chevy enthusiast owned the car he'd sell it to you for a forth of what I have in it and be tickled he got rid of it.
I have driven a lot of miles and campaigned my car at the shows since 2004 and the most important lesson I learned about the value of a classic car is that passion is the only real evaluator of worth. If the guy judging your car at a show likes Chevys, you could lose to a lessor car. If a judge likes Fords you could win over a superior car. One thing is for sure, if you restored your car for car shows, you should have restored a 57 Chevy. Barret Jackson is a prime example of passion buying, I cringe every time a Ford goes across the block at Barret Jackson. Jim
I enjoy watching the Barrett-Jackson auctions but the whole show is so biased towards Chevies, Camaros & Chevelles it gets disgusting sometimes. You see a beautifully restored 30s or 40s car sell for 1/2 of what some 69 Camaro sells for. And if its not a Mustang they just don't cover it.
Amen...and the sad part is it probably cost twice to restore a '57 ford as compared to a '57 chev and a lot more time because of repair or fabrication of parts that aren't even available for the fords. we gotta love our fords....and honestly... I like almost all 50's era cars regardless of manufacturer but the last thing in the world I could get enthused about is restoring a tri 5 chevy.
You'd be surprised at the people I've ran into at a car show that said " Thank God someone brought something besides a 57 chevy to a car show, I'm so sick of seeing 57 chevys I could throw up". And to tell the truth, I'm the same way. I don't even go over to look at them anymore. But if a Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Studibaker, etc. arrives, I'll make sure I look it over and talk to the owner.
There's a guy up here where I live that has a drop dead gorgous 57 chevy convertable. Every nut and bolt is turned the correct way. When you ask him something about his car he didn't know, all he could say about the car was it cost 85K. Come to find out he bought it restored and had it shipped up here from Florida because he thought car shows would be fun when he retired. I don't talk to anyone very long that don't know anything about their classic car. You'll see him at the car shows and he's always sitting by himself. It's not that he's an unfriendly guy, it's just that most people that restore and show classic cars haven't got anything to talk to him about.
Jim
ok, i guess i brought up a good subject, i guess u could say what weve heard over the years, i myself had my first 57 back in 59, and being a kid found many things that have helped me with the one i have now, 1st one was a stick, so i had many problems with the linkage from the brake peddle to the bracket between the peddle to the clutch, which i had to beef up with extra metal and welds, and then there was the fender over the head lite that would rust out, those were the ones i remember most, so today being more experienced and after 2 other cars restored, and this will be my last (to old) and to bad because i've gotten better at painting and body work, but getting back to car shows, it is nice to go up to a car and owner and being able to talk to him and what hes done to restore it, compared to a guy that all hes done is pay the money and don't know anything, theres to many cars out there called trailor queens, no experience, even get help to put it on the trailor, and your right about Barris Jackson, i've noticed that all they show is cameros corvets chevs etc, mustanges u see some and money isn't there unless u have a shelby and the old man with them, i get a bigger kick out of the guys trying to jack up the bids, and you would think theres tons of money out there, i saw 1 60 ford and that was the only one i've ever seen, i had one of those when i was younger also, new from the dealer for 2000, o well, can't go back, but we can bring back the memories, and the input from everyone helps, as far as my conv, i don't thnik i'll be getting rid of it, unless one of you guys wants to trade for a 32 5 window, o almost forgot, we/ve made another year, another year older, happy new year to ya all, Jerry
Watching the 2010 Barret stuff right. At least the 70-71 Boss 429
Mustangs are going up. One just sold for $250.000 :001:
Quote from: shopratwoody on 2010-12-27 13:35
Not pertaining to value, but if I never see a flip top with the top
half open at a car show it won't hurt my feelings.
Ditto! Up or down! Everyone knows it's a retractable.
Quote from: shopratwoody on 2010-12-27 13:35
Not pertaining to value, but if I never see a flip top with the top
half open at a car show it won't hurt my feelings.
I feel the same way about open doors, hoods and trunklids. I understand that at some indoor show judges will not open them and there can be considerable points lost in scoring. However I tend to not let the retractable tops halfway up bother me, Yes we all know what they are but think of the young kid that's never seen one, its definitely going to stop him in his tracks. And it may eventually lead him to search out and save another retractable.
Well guess I'll put my 2 cents in on the show judging thing. Out here in So Cal most of the shows we attend with our driver type of cars are not judged from a Concours standpoint, meaning not using professional or even knowledgable judges. Most of our shows are judged by the participants and some even by spectators. So when I'm at a show and responsible for judging the cars, if the hood of a car is closed it won't get my vote. Also, if someone trys to open my doors, etc., he might be picking himself off the ground (as I generally keep my camera out of sight behind the front seat). We generally keep to the policy that unless you are NAKED, don't touch our cars unless invited to do so. I hope I'm not off base here and sounding like a grouch, as I really do enjoy taking my 57 to shows and talking to the people with questions or to help them get a closer look.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob,
You're right. Most of the judging that goes on at the car shows in Northern Indiana are the same as your shows. The bigger shows 200+ cars will have about 5 or 6 judges and each will take one area to judge, paint, engine, interior etc. That makes it a little more professional and they try to use knowledgable judges. I wouldn't go to an open show participant judging event unless you drive a GM product and you're a member of the car club putting on the show.
The car show event that I liked most was the participant judging at the Ford Nationals in Carlise,Pa. When you registered your Ford for the show you got a sheet of paper that listed every class at the show and where that class was located on the grounds. There's so many classes that you'd be hard pressed to vote for every class. You then mark which car you liked the best, be it 64-66 Mustangs or 55-57 T-Birds. The participants at that show had a Ford product on display there. Weren't no chevys or chryslers. I'm going back again this year as well as going down to see James this year at the gulf coast cruise. That's not a car show unless you want to spend your day at one place shining on it for an award. There's so much to do and places to go there that I don't think many people are interested enough in a trophy to sacrifice cruising to the different towns along the shore.
As far as the retracts go, I too am not impressed seeing them. But you know, I haven't been to a car show yet that I haven't heard some kid say " hey Mom, look at that car". If I had one I'd probably be doing the same thing. Jim
Bros:
Just my $.02 worth, but I agree with everyone whose posted on this thread.
Tri 5 Chevy Cars are a drug on the market, overpublicised and overexposed.
Granted their owners, who've done their own work, have much to be proud of but they've become almost kit cars, you can buy anything aftermarket for a Tri 5 Chevy. When was the last time you saw a new aftermarket 57 Ford grill for sale?
Now Tri 5 Fords are fewer, more difficult to obtain parts for and rarely seen on the auction shows on TV.
My personal preference for flip tops is the rag top any day, but that's just my preference.
Also for 50's cars, love 55-56 Mercs, 53-58 Studes and Shoebox Fords. Have always loved the Ford Engine in a Ford car, way too many folks out there dropping SBC's in anything with wheels :003:
BTW anyone seen any of the articles in the Hot rod publications where they've started calling Tri 5 Chevies Shoeboxes? It may just be a regional thing but when I was a youngn in the North East, Shoeboxes were 49-51 Fords, All Chevies were Stovebolts....
I don't work on my 57 to make money on it, I work on my 57 for the same reason we all do its a labor of love.
BuBBa
Bubba, this is how it went in my neighborhood.
First time I heard anyone refer to a 55-7 chev as a shoebox was on the cover of Rod & Custom, believe the article was by Pat Ganahl and the car was a bright yellow 55. Where I grew up a Merc was only a 49-51 Merc, a 56 Mercury was a 56 Mercury, A woodie was a 49-51 Ford station wagon, anything else followed the Mercury rule so it would be for example a 40 Ford woodie, and a shoebox was nothing else but a 49-51 ford passenger car in all its variants except the previously mentioned woodies. And Chevies well we had so little need for them so we did lump them all in the stovebolt class, but it seems that truly only applied to the 6 cylinder motors, so 55s with the 265 wouldn't have qualified. Not however to be confused with their much more desired cousins the Jimmies. And only fools ran around with necker knobs on their steering wheels.
Zap- :felix:
ok, i guess i opened a can of worms, but since someone has brought up shoebox fords, i've told people on this forum that i own a 51 ford, 69 mach 1 mustang & the 57 conv, heres a picture of my 51, and this weill be the only time i post it, i have had this car for 22 years, when i bought it, it was a bondo special, and true the 49-50-51 were the only shoebox cars
Awesome car Gerald...I absolutly love it....right down to the blue oval plate on the front ( I'll be using the blue oval theme on my '57). I'd also love to see a pic of your mach 1 since the '69 is my favorite year vintage mustang. I must admit though the new Mustangs would make it hard to decide between, let's say, a vintage Shelby and a new one given the choice.
I love the tangents we get off on to on this website. (that sentence was a lot of adverbs prepositions) Rich
Having owned a 70 Boss 302 (New in 69 sold to my brother in 81) and now owning an 08 Shelby GT500 I can make a few comments about the choice situation. Get them both! Putting all seriousness aside, the 08 is by far a superior automobile in every respect. It out handles the Boss (mine was highly modified for B sedan), is faster in a straight line by a bunch, ride quality is better (even with FRPP springs), has air, a good sound system (if you choose to turn it on) and is a great rode car. The only area the 08 falls short in is the "KOOL" factor. The 08 is still a head turner and an attention getter with numerous thumbs up while on the road and did capture much of the "muscle car" aura.
Having said all that, if you want toys the classic is the way to go, drivable koolness and performance the new Shelby is the way to go. Can't afford toys so the search for my Boss was ended (still under current registration in WI) and the 08 search began.
OK, HERES A PICTURE OF THE 69, THEN LETS GET BACK TO THE 57'S
Quote from: geraldchainsaw on 2011-01-06 12:42
OK, LETS GET BACK TO THE 57'S
I would guess that if we did a survey of the membership, we'd find that most of us are o'all Ford guys and many will have more than a 57 in their stable. Personally I have a 41 Ford Panel, a 51 Ford Custom coupe, a 56 Continental Mark 2, and my 57 Business Coupe. And if we were to really dig there are probably a few Camaro owners among us. And to me that's just fine however its my 57 that brings me to this site and I understand that some guys aren't 100% Blue Oval guys but if I can learn more about 57s or even just learn many of the things that cross lines from them its fine with me. So if someone shows me how to restore a steering wheel and uses a Chrysler Imperial wheel to do it I'd be a fool to reject the lesson.
And while not trying to be an echo,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"OK,LETS GET BACK TO THE 57'S"
Zap- :burnout:
I love parking my ragtop next to a retrak. IT makes the sunliner look low and long,when you see how fat a skyliner had to get,to be able to swallow it's own top.
Wildhog,
What's the difference in diminsions. I thought they had the same frame, were the same length and height. You don't have to be exact, just ball park. Jim
A Retrack is 10 inches longer than any other Fairlane or Fairlane 500.
ok, now i have to carry a yo yo with me at the next swap meet
Lou I have to respectfully disagree, the 500s and the Retract are the same length. My Retractable is exactly the same length as a good friends 500 2drht. The rear floor pans are the same for both the retract and the sunliner (they are deeper because of the up-right rear seat back), the frames are the same. The doors are the same as my retract has a 500 door on it due to previous injury. The vent window frames are different, they don't have the little notch at the top for the "flipper". The trunk floor, top of the quarters, rear panel and trunk lid are completely different as are the gas tanks. I think it is a visual trick as the roof on the retract is shorter than the 2drht and the sunliner. Measure the distance from the rear of the door to the end of the tail light housing I believe they are the same.
Interesting...I always assumed the retractible was longer from the door back and could have sworn I read somewhere that it was. Bill, just for s**** and grins, when you have a chance why don't you measure your back fender and post what you find, then maybe Jim or someone else with a h.t. could do the same, and gerald could post his convert. If everybody measured at the height of the door handle for constistency it would be great. I suspect what we are looking at is the deck area is actually 10" longer as Lou stated but it is because the roof is shorter as Bill stated, not because the fenders are longer. we'll all know for sure if we compare measurements.I have a pic of the back end of a retract posted in the boneyard section of the gallery right at the top. That sure is a l-o-n-g looking fender, but I never paid much attention to how short the roof was. l.o.l....maybe because when you see them most the time, the roof is half way up and it's hard to tell.
Guys,
I just got thru measuring my 2 door hardtop and the measuement from the door to the end of the fin is 93 1/2 inches.
Distance from rear window to end of fin is 46 1/2 inches.
Jim
ok, i got 93" from rear of door to fin, from bott of conv window to fin, 50", i worked at fords in tool & die, of course not in 57, but anyway, there would be so many changes that would have to be made if the hard top conv was longer, drive shaft, frame, which i'm sure they didn 't extend, a longer quarter panel, chrome or stainless strip, i'm pretty sure if you put a hard top and rag top and maybe a 2 door into a box, they would all fit, adjustments would be made for all to fit into the box, but i guess we won't know until someone get the measurements from a hard top conv
93 1/2" at the door handle to the end of the tail light housing. The bottm rear of the roof sail to the rear most part ot the tial light fin chrome is 63" (plus or minus 1/2", couldn't get the cover high enouph to get right on the fin).
and I hate it when they park them with the roof half way down/up. The car is good looking with the top stowed, put a continental kit with bumper extensions and it does look 3 miles long!
Isn't the internet and this website great!!!! not too many years back we may have had to wait months for a car show or whatever to resolve a discusion like this. Overnight we have a definetive answer.
Just a note of reference, my custom 2dr measures 85 1/2... 8" shorter. Rich
ok, maybe someone should measure from the head lite fender lip to the back fin, looks like everyone gets the same thing from the back of the door, i'll start it, i get 201"
speaking of the posted pic of the retractible...that pic is of a car at a salvage yard in Colorado, East of Colorado Springs. I've never taken a close look at it, but it seems to be pretty complete and in reasonably good shape if anyone is interested. it being pretty complete makes me think the yard is selling it as a restorable vehicle rather than using it as a parts car. I may be headed up that way in February (weather permitting) if anyone needs me to check it out. Thay yard has about 20 or so '57's. I can look up the contact info for them if anyone wants it. I think Gerald contacted them last summer about an exhaust manifold.
I'm thinking maybe a special section in our links area might be nice for salvage yards known to have '57's. What do you guys think?
I live in Colorado Springs Colorado and have a business in town with a shop. We are in the process of acquiring a 57 Ranch Wagon and would be happy to help in any way. This site has already been gold to us and we have a lot of work to do so I am sure we will be a total pain in the rear with questions you guys have heard so many times before.
Hogwagon,
I'll guarantee you can't think up any dumber question that I've asked before. The nice thing about this website is, the guys will answer that question. Jim
As per the 1957 Ford Car specifications booklet (second addition)
Convertible Frame 186.50 over-all
Retractable Frame 192.63 over-all
Regarding the open hood and door thing.Sometimes I've opened
the hood till the safety latch catches it because the judges won't
judge it without seeing the engine.Funny because with another
Ranchero it took first place at the All Ford Picnic at La Palma park
with the hood closed. It was all chromed up etc under there but
I never liked the looks with the hood open. My Black one gets around
some and I hate the hood open.I've cracked it a few times but don't like the look. It's a good look'n big block and runs hard. I just don't
like the hoods open. So, I really don't care if it ever gets judged.
Catch me at a Red light and check it out :burnout:
Quote from: Lou on 2011-01-08 13:16
As per the 1957 Ford Car specifications booklet (second addition)
Convertible Frame 186.50 over-all
Retractable Frame 192.63 over-all
but the wheelbase is probably the same...probably just added an extra support crossmember at the back end which added the 6" overall.Similar to what they did to the custom frame for the wagons.
Quote from: hogwagon on 2011-01-08 10:15
I live in Colorado Springs Colorado and have a business in town with a shop. We are in the process of acquiring a 57 Ranch Wagon and would be happy to help in any way. This site has already been gold to us and we have a lot of work to do so I am sure we will be a total pain in the rear with questions you guys have heard so many times before.
hogwagon...check your personal messages...Rich
Quote from: geraldchainsaw on 2011-01-08 09:53
ok, maybe someone should measure from the head lite fender lip to the back fin, looks like everyone gets the same thing from the back of the door, i'll start it, i get 201"
I went from the top of the fender to the tip of the chrome at the end of the fin....203 + - 1/2"....
ok, ford blue bl;ood, what r u checking ? a conv ragtop, plain fairlane 500, or a hardtop conv????????????like i said 201" for a ragtop, lets get this done
Jerry,
I'm sitting here with tears streaming down my face. How could you use the term " plain fairlane 500 ". There's nothing plain about a fairlane 500. I feel stepped on, lied to, cheated on and treated like dirt. LOL Jim
Quote from: geraldchainsaw on 2011-01-08 14:29
ok, ford blue bl;ood, what r u checking ? a conv ragtop, plain fairlane 500, or a hardtop conv????????????like i said 201" for a ragtop, lets get this done
Sorry guys, my Retractable. 203 over the cover from the top of the fender (tape was hooked on the eye brow) just outboard of the hump to the very end of the top of the fin.
sorry Jim, bad choise of words (word), meant to say, FAIRLANE 500, now we have 2 numbers, ragtop 201,. hardtop 203, theres no 10" diff, maybe someone was adding a continatil kit with their dimentions, i think this subject has a little over kill
According to The Spec sheets at John Gambils site (57Ford.com) All custom series cars are 16'6"ft. long, all Fairlane series cars are 17'6" long, and the Skyliner with Continental kit comes in at 19'.
Zap- :burnout: