How many leafs did wagons have compared to reg. pass. cars? Were the front coils a heavy duty application?... was there a shock difference too?
thanks guys
Jeff...from what I remember when we had this discusion a while back.... Rear leafs....my Custom had 4 leaves in the springs. I think I remember Lou saying the Rancheros, wagons, and police cars had 6, but I think he also said some of his factory regular cars also had 6. McVeigh Springs I believe only sells the 6 leaf,(220. plus ship). That is what I was going to get for mine. Hopefully it'll give it a tad bit of lift in the back without giving me too rough of a ride. If not, I figure I can always remove a spring or two.
I think the front springs were determined by the engine, tranny, and other weight factors. When I ordered my front springs from Detroit Spring (Eatons), they calculated the weight of my new 4.6 dohc/4R70W with air and everything else to be within 60 lbs of the original 6 with a manual 3 speed. I figured I'd rather go soft on the front springs for ride comfort, and I could always beef it up with air shocks if needed.
Thanks Rich!
I remember reading that rancheros came with 5 or 7, mine has 7. Alot of the ranchero and wagon stuff is the same, Mark
The rear shocks for the wagon and Ranchero differ from the regular passenger car. The top mount has a heavy tab that goes through an "eye" and two bolts hold the tab to the cross member. Fronts are the same.
Way back in 2008 friend was searching for a set of rear shocks for his 57 wagon, this is what the guys came up with.
KYB Gas GR2 #343131
NAPA NR (Monroe) MA708, believe these are gas assist
Advance Auto carries a Japanese brand JPG? number crosses over to Monroe Matic Gas
It was stated then that if you asked for them by vehicle it came up blank, but given the number they were available. Anyway if you do a search for ''shocks'' and specify Zapato the original thread will come up. Hope this helps.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Great info. thanks fellas
Rich. the link to McVeigh's seems to go no where.... the site is up for sale.. just a heads up.
Thanks for the heads-up. It was working when I put it on there. I just saw an ebay ad I think was his not to long ago. I'll check it out and see what's going on.
It keep going to a generic site that isn't theirs. He is Springking0001 on ebay..here's a link to his ebay store. I'll call him monday and find out if his website has been closed down.
http://stores.ebay.com/McVeighs-Truck-Springs?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
Looks like it is for sale(his site)
That site the link goes to has his name up top, but if you look below that it's just a bunch of diferent sites that sell springs..jc whitney, etc. I've run into similar webpages when I've misspelled something.
Rancheros, wagons and skyliners use 6 leaf springs. I had new springs made for my F100 at a local spring company, they will make them to any spec you want and they were only $80 each but that was about 10 years ago..
The McVeigh's are roughly $270 shipped... add in the front and rear bushing kit. another 100 bucks.... so.really after the dust settles...400 bucks.
The cost is not a real biggie.... I just want a heavy duty spring package for my 57.I will source out a shock set up for the rear as well...following Zap's lead on the Monroes.
Jeff, those numbers are all for wagons and as has been mentioned are different from coupes etc...
Zap- :unitedstates:
********** UPDATE ***********
On the HAMB there is a social group 1952-59 Ford Social Group within that group there is a FAQ Sticky thread that is not really a sticky but you can search for it by just searching sticky once in that group. Like most social groups on the HAMB very little or none of the ''egos'' found at times on the main board. That sticky is full of part numbers and links to suppliers etc,,, worth a look.
these numbers are from there
49-59 Gas-A-Just KYB KG4503 (F) KG5517 (R) lowered , doesn't say how much lowered
Bilstein lowered front 55-R230 available from RCD Classics , no info given for them.
My guess and its only a guess is that the KYB # given for fronts is probably for Aerostar lowered fronts as that seems to be the most frequent and affordable way to lower the 49-59 Fords.Also on that thread there is a post referencing 3 different shocks and giving specific info on them.
Like I said its worth a look.
Its seems from what this thread says that other than station wagons, rancheros and some convertibles they all ride on the same shocks for many years. So here's another that worked for me First upgrade to my 51 club coupe was swapping a Maverick rearend for the stocker. Car had a very rusty pair of Monroes on my shelf was a pair of KYB shocks bought but never installed on my 74 chevy LUV pickup, don't have number handy but it was a straight bolt in and remains there today. So if someone has a KYB catalog we can add another number.
I guess thats the way to go if you just want stock springs. The advantage of having them made is you can them beefed up if needed. As far as shocks go and this is just my opinion, Monroes are cheap pieces of crap, bottom of the barrel. Unfortunately about the only shocks available any more are gas, and I don't like any of them, tried Monroes KYB, and Gabriels. I sure miss the old Gabriel adjustable E's that I use to run on all my Fords. I prefer a solid feel in the suspension, if I wanted a marshmallow ride I'd buy a Lincoln..
So Zap.. they just won't work?... different set up?.....Getting a heavy duty shock is not a problem.. just trying to stay along the lines of a "Ford type product"... if that makes any sense.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2013-08-04 10:25
I guess thats the way to go if you just want stock springs. The advantage of having them made is you can them beefed up if needed. As far as shocks go and this is just my opinion, Monroes are cheap pieces of crap, bottom of the barrel. Unfortunately about the only shocks available any more are gas, and I don't like any of them, tried Monroes KYB, and Gabriels. I sure miss the old Gabriel adjustable E's that I use to run on all my Fords. I prefer a solid feel in the suspension, if I wanted a marshmallow ride I'd buy a Lincoln..
Ha ha ha
Using wagon springs in a car isn't a problem, I did it in my custom 300. It rode a little stiffer, but not much and handled a whole lot better.. I don't recall if I used the same Ubolts or used ones from a wagon.
Quote from: Jeff Norwell on 2013-08-04 10:32
So Zap.. they just won't work?... different set up?.....Getting a heavy duty shock is not a problem.. just trying to stay along the lines of a "Ford type product"... if that makes any sense.
Jeff, they'll work on wagons and rancheros just not on the rest of the line, go back and read an update on my last post.
So far no one has mentioned CARRERA , are they still in business? Back in the day when we were club racing they were the source for anything odd duck bit spendy but quality thru and thru. Seem to remember business always slowed down during hunting season.
Jeff...on the rear shocks....back a year or two ago, Jim Nolan did an interesting post on rear shocks. If I'm remembering correctly, what he found was that it was in fact the travel of the shocks that was limiting the distance the differential would drop down when you were changing a back tire. For guys with larger tires on the back, obviously quite common, it meant undoing the shocks to get the tires out. Not good if your fixing a flat on the road. He found a shock that was made for a '56 Ford pickup (?) that had the same mounting configuration as the oem '57 passenger cars, but had a longer travel, allowing the changing of tires to be much easier. The last report I saw from him was they were working really well as far as ride and not bottoming out on potholes, ect. Maybe we could get him to chime in and give us a follow-up. I'll send him a pm to make sure he sees this.
Rich
Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2013-08-03 06:58
The rear shocks for the wagon and Ranchero differ from the regular passenger car. The top mount has a heavy tab that goes through an "eye" and two bolts hold the tab to the cross member. Fronts are the same.
Could some one post a picture of this set-up, what i'm picturing in my head is what is common Ford 60s front shocks mounts such as found in Mustangs, Falcons, Fairlanes or anything else with those very intrusive shock towers. If so maybe there is a cross reference number that will work. Anyone have access to a Hollander?
Quote from: Zapato on 2013-08-04 11:52
Could some one post a picture of this set-up, what i'm picturing in my head is what is common Ford 60s front shocks mounts such as found in Mustangs, Falcons, Fairlanes or anything else with those very intrusive shock towers. If so maybe there is a cross reference number that will work. Anyone have access to a Hollander?
You have the right picture in your head, they are just like the fronts on Mustangs, Fairlanes .. I'm to lazy today to pull a wheel off to take a picture :003:
Maybe this will help
Guys,
The shock that will fit a 57 and let the axle drop down to put bigger tires on it is a 56 Ford Fairlane. Not a pick-up. Jim
Thanks Jim...I looked, just couldn't find that thread. Still working out good for you I assume since no comment to the contrary.?
Rich
Yes Rich, The longer shock has more than enough travel when you hit a bump. I've never bottomed mine out and I've hit some pretty big bumps. The stock 57 Shock has more travel than it needs when it comes to shoving a wheel upwards. I have no idea what they thought when they designed the travel with that much upward availability. Maybe bumps were bigger back then.
I just had a set of leafs made at St. Louis spring, that I tried after reading on this forum another member had them make some '57 springs. About $275.
I had them do a 2" inch drop, and they worked great. I recommend that you have them move the center bolts back about 3/4" from when they set them, makes the tires much easier to get in and out.
I also am having them make a set with a thicker upper leaf so that with a bunch of weight in the car it doesn't sag as bad, plus helps spring wrap up.
Great suggestion with moving the bolts back 3/4". I'll keep that in mind.
Pat...met your dad last night at the Polk st. cruise. He was fixing a leak in his gas line.
Thanks for the input fellas.
here is where I am at........
I am toying with the idea of getting a complete 9 inch rear end made complete(Maybe Currie's)....big bearing,28 or 31 spline,drum brakes,nod. third member,etc,etc.... I want the whole unit to look like a stocker..... no obvious bells or whistles.I am researching to make sure the rear end has the same drum brake configuration.(I think the aftermarket ones are wider,..not sure)
Anyhow.... back to the question at hand... the springs and shocks.....I want a heavy duty spring pack and a somewhat factory heavy duty shock.....everything will be painted a factory semi satin black.
so......
Jim..... is there a certain part # for the 56 ford shocks..make? or is a product like mac's can get?
Zap... every time I hear Carrerra... I always visualize some type of coil over.....am I wrong?.....I really don't want that.
hiball3985.... hear ya on the soft ride....no lincoln ride for me either...
Stance and performance must go hand in hand...(for me anyhow....(artist thing I guess).... Any sag in the rear end stance would be a definite no no.
I should also mention my car I am building is not gonna be a blistering super sonic light to light thing..... much more interested in building a hiway hauler.... with the 4 speed stick..I plan to have a 3.00 or 3.10 rear ratio,.....
Suede57ford/Pat....when you say center bolts..... umm...your talking about the centerbolts on the spring pack?.correct?.... really like the idea of a thicker upper leaf....
P.S---Pat... still need that 4-door custom 300 trim we spoke about....I will try to holler at ya in the next 2-3 weeks.
Thanks guys....for ALL the replies.
Oh yea...I am running the skinny-est bias plies ever..... located some Hi-po wheels.... 5 inch wide.....
I have another set of stocker rims I will have as back up with a radial deal.....
Quote from: Jeff Norwell on 2013-08-05 06:51
I am toying with the idea of getting a complete 9 inch rear end made complete(Maybe Currie's)....big bearing,28 or 31 spline,drum brakes,nod. third member,etc,etc.... I want the whole unit to look like a stocker..... no obvious bells or whistles.I am researching to make sure the rear end has the same drum brake configuration.(I think the aftermarket ones are wider,..not sure)
I should also mention my car I am building is not gonna be a blistering super sonic light to light thing..... much more interested in building a hiway hauler.... with the 4 speed stick..I plan to have a 3.00 or 3.10 rear ratio,.....
Jeff remember the 57 housing back cover is "bald", not sure Curry does them that way. My 60 wagon has 3" drums on the front/rear and is a large bearing 9". I have no idea about the availability of parts. Also might mention 61 - 64 Birds had 3" drums as well.
Hitting the highway, take a look at 2.76s, I put 3.00s in my Ranch Wagon and I wish I had gone with the 2.76s.
Does moving the rear end back 3/4 " still leave you with a usable driveshaft with a safe spline engagement, or does it have to be lengthened?
Jeff...the other guys will have to confirm, but I believe the optimal route (for add'l tire clearance)is to have 3/4" per side taken off the oem axel/housing lengths.
The wagons, 'cheros etc had wider drum brakes in the rear..not sure about the fronts.
As Bill stated, the '57's had a smooth back cover (unique to the '57's I believe)
Quote from: Jeff Norwell on 2013-08-05 06:51
Zap... every time I hear Carrerra... I always visualize some type of coil over.....am I wrong?.....I really don't want that.
Can't speak for their current line, but what we used in the past wasn't c/o. What we used was stock appearing but 3 way adjustable. Even their soft setting was an improvement over stock handling and feel. My recollection is that they were physically a bit larger [ o.d.] that stock.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Jeff,
Eventually I want mine to be a hiway hauler also, but to to the terrain I live on I need to keep the 3:73 gears. I have a top loader 4 speed I'm trying to swap for a 3 speed OD. I ran that combo back in the day in my 300 and it worked out perfectly..
Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2013-08-05 07:43
Jeff remember the 57 housing back cover is "bald", not sure Curry does them that way. My 60 wagon has 3" drums on the front/rear and is a large bearing 9". I have no idea about the availability of parts. Also might mention 61 - 64 Birds had 3" drums as well.
Hitting the highway, take a look at 2.76s, I put 3.00s in my Ranch Wagon and I wish I had gone with the 2.76s.
awesome Bill,.... yea..That is one of the reasons I have not pulled the pin on ordering a complete unit..as I mentioned before..I need a Stocker look.So...I just may order the internals,keep the housing(small bearing unit) a run it from a stock looking configuration.
I really like the idea of the 2.76 gear ratio.... This is gonna be a hiway Flyer.... already got a saturday night special.... Thanks Bill!
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2013-08-05 08:16
Does moving the rear end back 3/4 " still leave you with a usable driveshaft with a safe spline engagement, or does it have to be lengthened?
Jeff...the other guys will have to confirm, but I believe the optimal route (for add'l tire clearance)is to have 3/4" per side taken off the oem axel/housing lengths.
The wagons, 'cheros etc had wider drum brakes in the rear..not sure about the fronts.
As Bill stated, the '57's had a smooth back cover (unique to the '57's I believe)
Hey Rich..... I really want to stay away from any custom width on the rear end...Although I love a big fat tire.... I love a more skinny look these days...remember when" The race car Tires were skinny and the drivers were fat"..... ha ha ha......
Quote from: Zapato on 2013-08-05 08:46
Can't speak for their current line, but what we used in the past wasn't c/o. What we used was stock appearing but 3 way adjustable. Even their soft setting was an improvement over stock handling and feel. My recollection is that they were physically a bit larger [ o.d.] that stock.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Zap.I will do some investigating.....
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2013-08-05 10:03
Jeff,
Eventually I want mine to be a hiway hauler also, but to to the terrain I live on I need to keep the 3:73 gears. I have a top loader 4 speed I'm trying to swap for a 3 speed OD. I ran that combo back in the day in my 300 and it worked out perfectly..
Jim.... I understand.....Where I live is Korn and Kattle country....I can literally Drive from my joint to lake huron and never see a rise in the road..... Going east is a different ball game....
WHen St. Louis Spring made my set of leafs with the 2" drop, they moved the bolt hole that holds the leaf packs up 5/8" to match the stock spring to front bushing distance on unarched springs. When I first put the springs on it sat right, but moved the tires closer to the front lower edge of the wheel opening. It wouldno longer fit my tires. as a temporary fixI redrilled the rear end perches and lower plates to move the rear end back 5/8" to match what it would have been stock.
I had them make me another top leaf with the bolt hole moved back 3/4" to match the original spring and that worked.
When they do the enginieering prints of the spring the change of arch put the locater bolt in a forward position of the stock, so I feel they should move it back to the stock location so that none of the dimensions change.
It doesn'e hurt to move the pin hole location back on the uppe rleaf a little with a 2" dearch, as it the rear end sits just a little lower and that makes the drive shaft push back in the tras a little further like it should be.
St. Louis Spring said they have not had an complaint with the locating pin hole moved up like inthe enginereeing prints, but with stock short white walls most would never notice. My car has the max tire on it so any differences from stock will show up.
If anyone needs more info on getting springs made they can contact me for suggestions.
Pat.,,,I am using a very narrow 5--5.5 inch steel rim....but I want to go with the tallest tire possible ....what ever will fit into the stock well....Do you see a problem?
Jeff, lots of 9inch info in the tech links section, one real lengthy read that I supplied link to and believe one or two others as well.
Zap- :unitedstates:
uhh.. lemme back that up..I would not try to squeeze a 15/8-90 tire into the well....you know what i mean.
Quote from: Zapato on 2013-08-05 11:13
Jeff, lots of 9inch info in the tech links section, one real lengthy read that I supplied link to and believe one or two others as well.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Thanks Zap....going there now.....
Quote from: Jeff Norwell on 2013-08-05 10:47
Jim.... I understand.....Where I live is Korn and Kattle country....I can literally Drive from my joint to lake huron and never see a rise in the road..... Going east is a different ball game....
Consider yourself very lucky, I wish I could move to Palookaville. It's got so bad here, a stop sign on every little street intersection and now speed bumps on many of the streets. I can drive for miles and never get out of low gear :005:
If you go to a Monroe Matic Shock website they'll have a dimension page for the shocks. That's how I found out it had a longer travel. I just used the Monroe Matics. I forget the part number. I had it on a thread a long time ago. Jim
Thanks Jim!
Jeff, I agree with going with the largest diameter tire possible in back of a '57. They need the tire to fill up the well and look proportional.
When you get to doing the bodywork, let me know and I'l send a picture of the modification needed on the front of the lower quarter panel needed to use taller tires. It is an easy mod, still looks stock, but makes changing tires easier. We now modify every '57 we do by now, as you never know what wheel tire combo you may use in the future.
Definitely will do Pat...Many thanks!