I couldn't find the pics in one of the threads showing this kit installed so just for the record I'm putting what they look like as received here.
Nice. Make sure you document particularly the rear sway bar instalation with pics. I'll need to know what to do when I get my rear one ordered. We don't have a whole lot available for pics on the rear one. Just got thinking again...I don't know what you've got for a rear end setup...similar to stock? traction bars?
Thanks for posting!
Document? Pictures? Do a "Rich" article? Man, the pressure's on now!
My rear is stock with slapper bars (I tried taking them off but it felt and sounded like the rear was winding and bouncing thru the trunk when I hit the gas hard), my tailpipes might interfere.
The instructions are simple (sorry for the quality but I got the copies that aren't too good).
BTW Rich, you've expressed concerns before dealing with non-jpg stuff. There's a free program to download called Irfanview that pretty much does everything you need with pics. I hope saying that doesn't break any rules here.
(Whoops, I see #3 is upside down)
Thanks for posting. I'll check out that program...sounds useful.
Thanks for Posting Ron....This set up is on my wish list...soon.I gotta say... the instruction look.......umm........ Like they were drawn by a drunken Blind Sailor..... I was trained as a Tech artist.... .
But the actual product looks killer.
Thanks for posting!
I thought the same Jeff. "Like they were drawn by a drunken Blind Sailor". On a bar top and napkin :003: I just ordered mine last weekend. Luckily with those few pieces it doesn't look like rocket science to figure out.
Well.. first off i should have addressed Lorne. not Ron....(DOH!)
Yea Jim.... The product is a very fine piece.... Just can'T understand why a company cheaps out on horrible napkin drawings that need a Enigma decipher machine to get it installed.
Quote from: Jeff Norwell on 2013-12-05 08:01
Well.. first off i should have addressed Lorne. not Ron....(DOH!)
Yea Jim.... The product is a very fine piece.... Just can'T understand why a company cheaps out on horrible napkin drawings that need a Enigma decipher machine to get it installed.
It's probably a low volume item and hard to justify the cost of professional drawings. I spent a few years training to be a draftsman, I never did it as an occupation, but when I see drawings like that I go crazy :003:
Agreed....look at thunderbirdssouthwest website..it's taken them about 5 years to have someone get it that far for them. That's ok though..they are definetly a small mom and pop organization with some obvious talent in the mechanical departments needed to get good quality components like these manufactured and sold at a reasonable price. LOL...I'll wait to cuss them out until I actually need a good drawing for the rear sway bar install.
ha ha ha ......Gimme a sway bar kit and I will draw up there instructions... hahahah
hey.. a guy has to try! ha ha
The rear bar is pretty basic and not hard to figure out, I'm just finishing a set of 4 ft high ramps to get my car easily up enough to install the bars and do other things. No hoist yet but got a line on some guy that replaces commercial ones when the safety date runs out and sells them to goofs like me.
I will take pics but maybe someone else (Jim?) may get theirs done first.
I'll do some pictures when I do mine but the rear may not happen until after Xmas at the rate I'm going.
I opened up the front sway bar kit yesterday and noticed the main brackets are different from the ones in Laudy57's picture. I didn't like the way they were only welded on one side so I added a bead on the backside. I should get it installed this morning. I haven't opened the rear bar box yet.
Your's aren't like mine either. Mine were one piece made from angle iron. I'm surprised they would have only welded one side. Doesn't sound like a real cost saving change they've made either.
I wish it had been a one piece angle but I'm sure this will work. I'm use to having to hammer to fit, weld shut and paint to match on aftermarket stuff :003:.
I'm forcing the paint dry in the kitchen oven before the wife returns from grocery shopping.
I'm force drying (big propane torch) the paint on the ramps I made to get the car up enough to get the bars on easily! They'll get one end up 3 ft - poor boy's hoist. My brackets are welded one side also, haven't touched them until I decide if I want to change the shape for my particular application.
Quote from: LAUDY57 on 2013-12-15 11:47
I'm force drying (big propane torch) the paint on the ramps I made to get the car up enough to get the bars on easily! They'll get one end up 3 ft - poor boy's hoist. My brackets are welded one side also, haven't touched them until I decide if I want to change the shape for my particular application.
I wish I had made a set like that years ago. My ramps are only about a foot high but it looks like enough room to do the front. I have some tall jack stands I made at one time and will use those on the rear when the time comes.
What in my mind should have been an easy bolt on project has turned into a larger project then I anticipated.
First: two of the bumper bracket bolts refused to loosen and I snapped them off, I didn't think I was strong enough anymore to snap 1/2 bolts :005:, OK a run to the store for all new bolts and washers. I got them a little longer because the ones that were in there seem like they are a little short after adding the thickness of the sway bar bracket. With that now out of the way
Second:I noticed or should say just remembered my A arms have the rubber bumper that uses two bolts and I believe the struts are suppose to mount in the hole for the A arms that use a single stud :005:. I guess I will have to drill some holes in the A arms after my nap.. :burnout:
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2013-12-15 14:13
Second:I noticed or should say just remembered my A arms have the rubber bumper that uses two bolts and I believe the struts are suppose to mount in the hole for the A arms that use a single stud :005:. I guess I will have to drill some holes in the A arms after my nap.. :burnout:
No....the bumper with the 2 bolts stays. There should be an additional unused hole in line with and a few inches forward of those bumper bolts. I'll find a pic if you need.
LOL..doesn't seem like you need a nap if your snapping off 1/2" bolts!
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2013-12-15 14:23
No....the bumper with the 2 bolts stays. There should be an additional unused hole in line with and a few inches forward of those bumper bolts. I'll find a pic if you need.
LOL..doesn't seem like you need a nap if your snapping off 1/2" bolts!
Thanks Rich I'll have to go out and look, the only other hole I saw was for the old OEM sway bar bracket. Some where I thought I read it went into the bumper hole. There's nothing in the instruction sheet that shows where it is suppose to go.
I need a nap even when I'm not working anything..
Edit: I found the holes LOL. Maybe my request to Santa should be new glasses.
Yup, I see the 2nd hole as well. Got the underside up high enough so that my *#&$%#& progressive lenses can focus, this is going to make things easier fer sure.
Laudy,
I love your ramps, that should make things easier. That front bar is damn heavy, I tied it up in approximate position with a few wire ties while I installed all the nuts and bolts..
Ramps look great...LOL...My ceiling ain't high enough for a ramp like that, besides I'd have a heck of a time pushin' it up there.
The ties idea is good ....what works even better for heavy or big stuff are those 2" wide velcro straps
Laudy, nice shop. Love the skid plate
Just returned from a quick trip through the canyon, I'm impressed, handles great. I can't wait to get the rear on but that will be after the holidays..
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2013-12-16 12:10
Just returned from a quick trip through the canyon, I'm impressed, handles great. I can't wait to get the rear on but that will be after the holidays..
You might wanna start road-racing a '57 Ranchero!
Quote from: robhaerr on 2013-12-17 08:31
You might wanna start road-racing a '57 Ranchero!
Start? I've been a road racer since 1966 when I had my first 57 :003: This is the only reason I bought the bars. Wish I had them back then :burnout:
Yesterday one of my fears materialized. My front sits lower with the Granada spindles and the sway bar bottomed out on a driveway to a parking lot that I have used a dozen times in the past with no problem. Looks like it's time to design some sort of skid plate or find a different place to get a haircut :003:. :burnout:
hiball3985:
I, too had the Granada spindles on my 57 before the recent re-paint/re-build. Unfortunately, with the original ford springs (6cyl) and the additional Granada spindle drop, the car just sat a little too low up front. No matter how much care I took in doing driveways and speed bumps, I kept hitting the header cutouts and when they stop working it is real expensive to replace them. I went back to the stock Ford spindles and put on the Kelsey-Hayes 2 piston disc brakes. I used the Kelsey-Hayes discs because I still have 15" Cragar rims & any of the larger rotor/caliper options wouldn't fit. The car sits just a bit higher (with one coil cut out) and with the heavy duty Southwest ThunderBird sway bar I have no issues with either header clearance or turning.
I've attached a photo of the Kelsey-Hayes calipers and the standard Ford spindle and a shot of the 57's stance showing the front sway bar, CalTrac traction bars as compared to what it was before the re-paint/re-build. Note it was hard to find a photo showing the stance matching both before & after, this was the best I could come up with.
Bob
57 AGIN
Sits nicely for sure. Do you know how many coils were in the spring before you removed one? The wire diameter?
Thank you for that info Bob. Maybe sometime in the future I can do something like that. I don't have the original spindles, the Granada were on there when I got the car.
What rotor are you using? I have 14" wheels and new tires so I'm not about to replace those.
Do the Kelsey-Hayes caliper require power master? I don't want power..
I forgot to ask what size your front and rear tires are?
Stock spindles and 91 Aerostar springs mine does fine.
I do have a Ford 302 smallblock. Front tires 215-60-15, rear 215-65-15
I do take it very easy over speed bumps after slamming down hard once.
Rob
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2013-12-19 17:22
What rotor are you using?
The Kelsey-Hayes calipers are four piston. They were used on '65 Thunderbirds and optional first gen Mustang Shelby. So what rotors fit '57 OEM spindles?
I'm curious (this is probably in another thread) that Rob your front end looks really low, Jim is yours this low? I have 205/65 and 245/60's on mine and I have just over 7 in at the lowest point on the frame where it kicks in at the front. Bob's looks like the height that I would eventually like to aim for, I'm trying to find out what springs I have -need to check other threads.
The lowest part of my wagon is the underside of the rack and pinion center plate at 4" from the ground.
The ground to the bottom of the front sway bar is 5 1/2"
The ground to the upper lip of the front wheel well is 24".
The rear ride height is stock...didn't measure.
70 or 75 series tires will raise height, too. Looks like hiball has taller tires than I do (60 series in front).
Hope that helps.
Quote from: LAUDY57 on 2013-12-19 20:30
I'm curious (this is probably in another thread) that Rob your front end looks really low, Jim is yours this low? I have 205/65 and 245/60's on mine and I have just over 7 in at the lowest point on the frame where it kicks in at the front. Bob's looks like the height that I would eventually like to aim for, I'm trying to find out what springs I have -need to check other threads.
It doesn't look that low in this picture but I'll get some measurements in the morning.
I have stock springs, Granada spindles. It's low enough that I can't get my floor jack under the frame by the front of the front door.
Quote from: gasman826 on 2013-12-19 19:24
The Kelsey-Hayes calipers are four piston. They were used on '65 Thunderbirds and optional first gen Mustang Shelby. So what rotors fit '57 OEM spindles?
Ok, thank you. I have the 4 piston, non power on my 66 Mustang and they suck, the Granadas stop way better,,
Guys:
My Kelsey-Hayes front discs are used in conjunction with the ABS electric-hydraulic power brake system. The car stops as good as, if not better with the Kelsey-Hayes calipers as it did with the Granada calipers. Both Rick's and my 57's are similarly front brake equipped. Rick has added rear disc brakes to his 57, this Winter my 57 will be converted to 4-wheel discs. Tomorrow, I will go out and take some measurements to answer the questions posed by hiball3985. I'll also count the spring coils and measure the wire diameter. My curiosity is aroused, too.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob, what rotors are you using that fit the stock spindle?
For reference here are my dimensions.
Ground to bottom of the sway bar 5 1/2"
Ground to bottom center of wheel well 24 3/4"
Tires are 215 70 x 14".
After doing some thinking last night I think some of my problem my be related to a combination of driver error :003: and that particular drive way being a little steeper then most. I had made a left turn at a fairly good speed to beat the on coming traffic and then was on the brakes just before the driveway and this was at a straight approach. I will go back and try it at a slower speed and entering at a angle from a right hand turn. I've been over numerous damn speed bumps without a problem other then my cussing at them :angry5:
Quote from: robhaerr on 2013-12-19 21:18
The lowest part of my wagon is the underside of the rack and pinion center plate at 4" from the ground.
The ground to the bottom of the front sway bar is 5 1/2"
The ground to the upper lip of the front wheel well is 24".
The rear ride height is stock...didn't measure.
70 or 75 series tires will raise height, too. Looks like hiball has taller tires than I do (60 series in front).
Hope that helps.
Thanks Rob, looks like are numbers are similar, I am using 70 series tires
Thanks for the dimensions guys, I'm in the ballpark with 24 3/4 wheelwell. I'm roughly guessing at 7 1/4 for bottom of bar, my problem is the bellhouding at 4 3/4 and pan at 5 1/4 (that's why the skid plate. Rob, your 4" to the steering must hit stuff?
After cruising other threads I see good pics of the front bar installation by 57agin Mar 14/12.
Quote from: LAUDY57 on 2013-12-20 16:07
Thanks for the dimensions guys, I'm in the ballpark with 24 3/4 wheelwell. I'm roughly guessing at 7 1/4 for bottom of bar, my problem is the bellhouding at 4 3/4 and pan at 5 1/4 (that's why the skid plate. Rob, your 4" to the steering must hit stuff?
After cruising other threads I see good pics of the front bar installation by 57agin Mar 14/12.
I am very careful. I did go over a speed bump and accidentally let the car come down too fast and either the plate under the steering hit or something else did. No damage...but even more careful over speed bumps so the car doesn't slam down off the bump.
No problem getting into driveways. Have to be careful parking towards a curb...the sway bar or bumper could hit.
This stance I have makes the wagon look even longer. I get that comment a lot.
Another photo (that Bob 57Agin took) that shows the ride height in relation to my 5'8" and my buddy Steve at 5'6".
Rob
hiball3985:
The rotors are 11.25" actual. My invoice for the brake kit from ABS Power Brake, Inc. reads 11" rotors drilled & slotted, black powder coated 4 piston calipers.
The front spring coil diameter is 19/32". With all the fenderwell etc. in the way I couldn't get an accurate coil count, but I bought the springs through Concours Parts part # 3010-A-57-CUS. I downloaded a picture of the spring they show in their catalog and you can count the full spring then subtract one (1) coil and that is what is in my 57.
Bob
57 AGIN
Guys:
The more I looked at the spring photo in the Concours Parts catalog, the more I thought that the number of coils just didn't deem right. I looked back in my reassembly photos and found a photo of the original parts. I'd bet that the replacement spring has the same number of coils as the original, just subtract one coil that Rick and I cut off.
Bob
57 AGIN
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2013-12-20 09:47
Bob, what rotors are you using that fit the stock spindle?
Jim, not trying to answer for Bob, but the scarebird kit uses a late 60's mustang rotor, and they're bracket takes a GM s-10 caliper
Thank you, I don't plan on any changes in the near future but will keep that for reference.
Jim, I'm curious to know if you placed the bar bushing clamps in the front holes of the L-bracket or the rear ones. Looking at 57agin's pics (Mar 14/12) he used the rear holes but I certainly need to use the front ones. Even with front holes the back part of the bar is going to hit my frame when it comes down -I even have more inward tilt to the a-arm bolts. I'm thinking I need to bend the bar slightly, if my press will handle it, to splay the bars out more or move the L-bracket forward. I also removed the spacers like he did.
Laudy, I used the front holes and my set up looks just like yours. I haven't had any issue with the bar hitting the frame.
I don't see the bumper brackets in your picture?
I just noticed the spacer between the top and bottom grommets is missing.
Guys:
It's been a while since Rick and I installed the HD sway bar on my 57, but here are some photos. Hope they help.
Bob
57 AGIN
Thanks Bob,
a few observations: I see yours doesn't have the spacer either? and in the first picture I noticed the horns, mine are a large type like that also and most 57's I have seen have smaller ones..
I braved the dark and cold of night :003: This is how mine is.
Thanks guys. Yeah, Bob it was your pics I was referring to where I saw that you used the inner holes. I took the spacer out as well to lower the angle of the arm. I think what I'm going to do is re-make the L-plate, I don't have the bumper brackets to worry about so I'm going to try and move the whole bar up (cutting off the frame extensions I just welded on), maybe shortening the center angle piece on the frame (the mini-skid plate?) so the bar will be more hidden.
I think my bar is bent a little too much on the right angle front corners, that's why the bar is too close to the frame and the a-frame uprights to the bar are leaning way over.
Thanks Jim for the brave dark and cold adventure- it's appreciated.
Jim...Mine never had the spacers in them either....just the two cups as in the other guy's pics. I wonder if it a new change to the kits.
I'm also wondering if those spacers are causing the center of the front of the sway bar to be lower, and that's why you had a problem getting into a driveway you hadn't before? Just out of curiosity,LOL, when it's warmer so you don't have to brave the dark and cold again :003:, if you could take a pic of yours so we could see the height of the front of your bar in relation to the mounting brace for the core support.
I haven't figured out what you guys are talking about with the "inner holes"
Rich
Thanks Rich, the mounting brace for the rad core support is what I was talking about. If I shorten that, that's where I want the bar to be.
My bar came with the spacers, but I didn't put them in, also there's grease fittings in the bushing clamps now, nice feature.
Laudy, I'm thinking about moving the mounting brackets up further also.
Rich, you maybe on to something, with the spacer it could be tipping the bar down a little. I hope some others chime in on the spacer. I'll take a closer look in the morning and grab a picture also.
I just went out and braved the cold and dark to have another look at mine. I see now what the inner holes are. I used the inner holes for mine. (inner meaning the back set of holes). My bar is bent more than Lorne's appears to be...it is closer to the frame in the back than it is the front. I'm guessing the reason for this is they bend them as much as they have to to establish the spread between the holes in the two ends? My attaching "spindle" with the bushings leans a little, but not as much as Lorne's... more like Jim's.
If you have portable hydraulic spreader (life of jaws), that may work better than a brake to spread the ends a little.
With all the apparent changes between the old and new sets, I'm wondering if tbirdsouthwest has a different manufacturer supplying these for them.
Rich, my bar is bent back closer to the frame at the rear also, it's hard to see the angle in my photo. When I first assembled it the strut with the bushings between the bar and A arm were on quite an angle which concerned me but after driving it only about 50 miles they seem to have settled in and now are almost 90 degrees straight up and down..
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2013-12-22 22:21
Jim...Mine never had the spacers in them either....just the two cups as in the other guy's pics. I wonder if it a new change to the kits.
I'm also wondering if those spacers are causing the center of the front of the sway bar to be lower, and that's why you had a problem getting into a driveway you hadn't before? Just out of curiosity,LOL, when it's warmer so you don't have to brave the dark and cold again :003:, if you could take a pic of yours so we could see the height of the front of your bar in relation to the mounting brace for the core support.
I haven't figured out what you guys are talking about with the "inner holes"
Rich
Is this what you needed?
My core support bracket is tweeked a little from hitting something, but with that said, my sway bar is touching the bracket on the driver's side....so apparently the spacers added at the control arm makes the front of the bar an inch lower.
Thanks for posting the pic...I was just curious.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2013-12-23 13:21
My core support bracket is tweeked a little from hitting something, but with that said, my sway bar is touching the bracket on the driver's side....so apparently the spacers added at the control arm makes the front of the bar an inch lower.
Thanks for posting the pic...I was just curious.
I doubt that removing the spacer would move the front of the bar very much since the pivot point it at the front. But after the holiday is out of the way I'm going to remove my spacer and see what the result is..
My bar is in the same place as yours without the spacers Jim, I'm just looking at pics I took with the front end up to see how much I can fudge away from or eliminate that support because my rad is not mounted on there anyway but I may not be able to move the bar back enough.
Laudy, I'm not surprised that our clearance are approximately the same with or without the spacers. It looks like you could remove the support bracket completely, fab something to attach the skid plate but I don't know how to move the bar back any further, I know I couldn't use the rear holes in the mounting bracket and have the bar line up with the hole in the A arm..
As soon as I (hopefully) tweak the bar angles I'm going to see what it takes to move the bar above the rad support. I just removed the L-brackets and held the bushing clamps up to the bottom of the frame. This puts the centre of the bar even with centre of the rad support. I would like to do something that would enable me to go back to a stock front end because if I should ever schmuck this front end, I would never be able to re-build it. I'll play with this after the holidays.
At least I'm working on this thing at shoulder level, easier on the back. Lorne.
I'd like to move mine up and forward enough to clear the radiator support. The more I look how this was designed the more I dislike it..
Just for info for anyone who has not looked closely at their rad support, when I cut mine off I was surprised to see how much rust was flaking behind the support against the cross member. Might be a good idea to spray some treatment here to soak in the gap.
Finally finished the last mockup, I think, the bar is moved up 1 1/2 in. I didn't want to weld it in but I did remove about 3 1/2 in. of the bottom flange of the frame channel. I was originally trying to get the bar up in the middle of the channel but that meant too much of a notch in the frame and the ends of the bar moved back too far. Even tried the bar upside down but couldn't get it right. I guess the bar bending was done one end at a time because the angle of the arms wasn't quite the same on each side. I did spread the ends out about 3/8 each side to clear the frame and might do a bit more.
I'll do the pieces for the other side of the frame and then make a cover facia to hide the frame ends and crossmember. I used rectangular tubing to re-inforce the top frame flange where my front end hinges are mounted.
Coming along very nicely Lorne. Thanks for the tip on the rust issue.
Lorne, that looks like a good solution to your problem. I was thinking along the same line but I need my radiator support so any amount I can move it up will be limited. I bottomed mine out again the other day crossing a street, I'm in the foothills and some of the streets have bigger then normal crowns to help with drainage..
Jim, if you move the bar 1 1/2 in. straight up will it still hit the rad support?
Quote from: LAUDY57 on 2014-01-02 10:54
Jim, if you move the bar 1 1/2 in. straight up will it still hit the rad support?
I'm not sure of the exact clearance or measurement, I'm trying to get a broken rib to heal and haven't been under the car since I installed it so it will be a few weeks until I get around to that project again..
Ouch!
Quote from: LAUDY57 on 2014-01-02 19:17
Ouch!
It only hurts if I take a deep breathe, cough, or laugh so the wife is enjoying picking out comedy movies :003:
Ran into another problem yesterday while out driving. Stopped at a store and the bar hit one of those wheel stops in the parking lot. Relocating it will be my first priority. Ideally I would have new front springs made with a higher rating and a little taller..
Watching Rob's video of him entering his driveway I'm surprised he doesn't hit the curb.
Quote from: LAUDY57 on 2014-01-04 11:15
Watching Rob's video of him entering his driveway I'm surprised he doesn't hit the curb.
I could probably clear that driveway too, but anything a little steeper would be a problem.
A little improvement today after my morning ride. I was able to move the sway bar up about
1-1/2". I removed the two front mounting plate bolts, loosened the rear ones just a little and moved the front of the bracket and bar up pivoting on the rear bolts, drilled two new holes and put the bolts back in, took about 30 mins. :toothy10:
Rear bar went on yesterday. The two bolts supplied in the kit to attach the frame brackets were 5" long, don't know why, I replaced them with 3 1/2" and also added a weld. Haven't had it on the road yet, I just got the drive shaft back from the shop and will change the trans tail shaft bushing before I install it.
Jim, you probably mounted the bar arms going forward, right? That seems to be where the width of the bar works out. I've just been looking at this and considering pointing the arms back and making a new brackets because the shocks and exhaust pipes look like not enough space at the front on mine.
Quote from: LAUDY57 on 2014-01-22 20:00
Jim, you probably mounted the bar arms going forward, right? That seems to be where the width of the bar works out. I've just been looking at this and considering pointing the arms back and making a new brackets because the shocks and exhaust pipes look like not enough space at the front on mine.
Lorne, I did mount it forward. I looked at mounting it to the rear but I didn't like the way it lined up. It cleared the shocks and dual exhaust without a problem. I had to remove the brake lines from the clips that hold them to the axle to get the U bolts on, I'll make a change to that when I make new lines in the future.
Thanks Jim, that's what I like about this site- there's usually someone to ask before banging and scraping paint! (it's still clean underneath)
Lorne, I was working on the sway bar while my drive shaft was at the shop. I just finished getting the drive shaft in and started to put the rear wheels on and almost couldn't get them on without a fight and they are only 215x14's. I have to jack the car by the frame to get them on but now the sway bar only lets the rear end drop about 2-3". I think if both side were jacked up it would help but I only have one floor jack :005:
Edit: I jacked it up and put two jack stands under the frame then let the rear end down and picked up a little more clearance that way and the second tire went on easier. This is a concern to me because I burn up a lot of highway and getting a flat is going to be somewhat of a hassle without being able to lift the body on both sides..
Thanks Jim, I'm just lining the bar mounts up now, I lift the car with an old style double pad "bumper" hoist that I can just reach under the frame. I have 245's so I have to let the air out of them (or undo the shocks). I fiddled around another time and found that a scissor jack at the rear side of the frame lifts the car just enough to get my tires off and easier if the air is out. I'll keep your comment in mind now with drop a question mark because of the bar.
I worry too about a flat while out cruisin', I don't want a tow truck guy to damage anything jerking the car up.
OK, so I just was looking at this setup. I have a double pad addition I can bolt on my floor jack so with the frame held up with the "bumper" jack I can raise and lower the rear end levelly with the floor jack. I have the bar just in front of the brake hose and vent junction which puts the front of the bar about 1 in. behind the spring bump stop bracket. It looks like mounting the bar bracket will allow enough angular travel in the bar end so it doesn't hold up the rear housing except when you try and jack up one side like you said. Hm-m-m-m.
Maybe this means some kind of easy dis-connect at the bar to let the one side drop enough for tire removal.
Lorne, When I set mine up I had jackstands under the rear end, I wanted the car in it's normal ride height and then set the forward arm of the bar horizontal. I'm not sure if that is totally correct but that was the best I could figure out as the installation sheets are almost worthless. My bar is on center of the axle so the frame mounting bracket is a little further back compared to yours.
I guess I shouldn't worry about getting the tire off while out on the road yet, I don't have a spare :003, I should note that I have driven nothing but old Fords since 1963, the newest being a 66 and have never been on a tow truck, I've always made it home with the few minor problems I have had.
I can't put it on the centre of the axle because of the vent junction which is probably why they say to raise the junction 2 in.
This needs some thought fer sure.
I made a little bracket like is shown on the instruction sheet to raise it. Now the left brake line goes straight across from the wheel cylinder to the junction block.
I meant to ask how did you get 245's under there, is the axle shortened?
No shortened axles but a really tight fit with no fender lips which is ok for sliding the rubber against when removing the wheels. I think I measured the wheels as std 5 1/4 offset. I've massaged the inner panels some but would get some rub on an upslope off camber turn. Re-doing the rear spring rubbers and actually making thin adapters I moved the rear over 5/32 which is small but made a difference. I think the new bars are going to help as well but probably will add a panhard bar or watts link at some point.
Thanks Lorne, I was just curious how you did it. I'm sure the bar will help you and a panard would be nice, I know it made a difference on my Mustang.
Finally got to go for a ride today with both bars on and it does feel better for sure. After adding rect tube pieces to the end of the frame rails to add bracing (mock-up on pg5) for my tilt hinges on the front and removing the rad support, I spread the bar ends about 3/8 on each side to clear the frame more and then covered all the things with a sheet metal piece. Like Jim, moving the bar up about 1 ½ has made it less prominent and gives more ground/curb clearance.
For the rear bar I angled the mounts on a more forward angle so the bar is about ½ away from the brake hose, I didn't want to make a raising bracket for the brake line junction and I just bent the brake line clips out more so the line clears the new u-bolt. This puts the front end of the bar 1 1/8 from the leaf spring bump bracket and for info there is 1 ¾ between the bar u-bolt and the axle u-bolt. It looks like my inner fender well lip has been trimmed so it was easy to mount the linkage bracket with the one bolt and, like Jim, I tacked the bracket to the frame to eliminate rotation. Until I can come up with something better I used an acorn nut made into a wing nut so I can reach around and release the side that might need to be jacked in case of a flat. I put a locking tab on the bolt head and a safety clip for the nut. I used the spacer from the front bar linkage to give length I can use to adjust the rubber compression as time goes on, the wing nut thread bottoms out when the safety clip holes line up and puts enough force on the rubbers.
Outstanding job Lorne...obviously alot of thought went into the projects. You're front end is lower than I had thought..see why you had a problem with speed bumps and the like.
Looks good Lorne. I'd love to have a press like that. I can see why you need the skid plate that isn't much clearance. I like the idea of making the link removable, I'll try something like that. My rear frame bracket mounts a little further back since I put the bar on the top of the axle while yours is a little forward. I tacked mine vertically thinking that would be the direction of load. I started to take pictures when I did mine but only got one and the camera battery went dead, I hate battery powered anything :003: While I was under there doing my bar I saw that the damn Chinese repo bushing I put in the spring front eye have the rubber collapsed already, I've only put 500-600 miles on them :angry5:. Now I'm searching for a polyurethane one I can use..
Thanks, it is low although the gravel is humped up a bit in the pic to make it look worse. That's not good news with your spring bushing Jim, I only have about 100 mi on mine, I hope they don't go the same way.
Quote from: LAUDY57 on 2014-01-27 23:06
Thanks, it is low although the gravel is humped up a bit in the pic to make it look worse. That's not good news with your spring bushing Jim, I only have about 100 mi on mine, I hope they don't go the same way.
I managed to get some what of picture, hope it doesn't happen to you too.
Sorry to see that, those are really lunched.
Quote from: LAUDY57 on 2014-01-28 15:59
Sorry to see that, those are really lunched.
It's a sad state of affairs with this repo stuff. I've seen OEM ones with over 100,000 miles that look better then these, in fact the ones I took out looked better.
I ordered some polyurethane ones that I'm going to experiment with, probably have to do a little modifying..
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2014-01-28 17:45
It's a sad state of affairs with this repo stuff. I've seen OEM ones with over 100,000 miles that look better then these, in fact the ones I took out looked better.
I ordered some polyurethane ones that I'm going to experiment with, probably have to do a little modifying..
Jim
I have used some polyurethane spring bushings on a few of my other cars and found that some of them tend to bind up after a few years of use making for a very stiff ride. I have tried grease and anti seize and they also dried out after a period of time. It could be a matter of who makes them. But they never wore out like the ones in your picture. That's horrible. Jay
Jay,
The ones I plan on using have a metal inner sleeve and it should pivot on that and the bolt hopefully. I can't imagine the front of the rear spring pivots that much anyways, it should just be a small amount. Time will tell I guess.
So...does it drive like a slot car?
Jim..where did you get those bushings from? Want to make sure I order from someplace else.
Quote from: robhaerr on 2014-01-29 20:52
So...does it drive like a slot car?
I don't know that I would call it a slot car. The handling is a large improvement but pushing it through the corners, lets say a right hand curve, and powering out from the apex I can pull the right rear off the ground and it breaks loose, I haven spun it out yet. That's how I test it on a posted 35 mph curve I take at 65 mph up in the canyon. Wider tires might help I'm only running 215's.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2014-01-29 21:07
Jim..where did you get those bushings from? Want to make sure I order from someplace else.
Rich, I really don't recall if I got them from Mac's or some auto parts store, it was last year and I don't keep records of small parts and my memory is like Swiss cheese at times. I'll bet there aren't many companies that make them, so they probably all come out of the same wok..
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2014-01-29 21:36
I don't know that I would call it a slot car. The handling is a large improvement but pushing it through the corners, lets say a right hand curve, and powering out from the apex I can pull the right rear off the ground and it breaks loose, I haven spun it out yet. That's how I test it on a posted 35 mph curve I take at 65 mph up in the canyon. Wider tires might help I'm only running 215's.
Wow...you must have more grunt and a much lighter rear end than my wagon!
Quote from: robhaerr on 2014-01-30 08:21
Wow...you must have more grunt and a much lighter rear end than my wagon!
Rob,
More grunt, not really, it's a stock 292 with a single 4V Holley. But a 292 make some good torque. This was just a test to see how far I could push it, everything has it's limits. I normally don't drive those speeds in the canyon. Driving like I would on a normal cruise I would only be doing about 50-55 mph in that same corner and it feels great at that speed. So I can say I'm happy with the results.
Edit: I think the wagons are about 300 lbs heavier then the Rancheros
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2014-01-29 21:40
Rich, I really don't recall if I got them from Mac's so they probably all come out of the same wok..
"
"Same wok" Jim..That's beautiful. Jay
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2014-01-30 08:42
Rob,
More grunt, not really, it's a stock 292 with a single 4V Holley. But a 292 make some good torque. This was just a test to see how far I could push it, everything has it's limits. I normally don't drive those speeds in the canyon. Driving like I would on a normal cruise I would only be doing about 50-55 mph in that same corner and it feels great at that speed. So I can say I'm happy with the results.
Edit: I think the wagons are about 300 lbs heavier then the Rancheros
This mildly warmed-over 302 seems to be a pretty good match for my wagon. Can't get in too much trouble with it since it's not a tire melter...but still fun to drive, thanks to the r&p steering and sway bars.
Glad you noticed a big difference!
Mine is now tire melter either but I never intended it be. It just burns up hiway and that's what I will be doing today :003: One trip to the mother-in-laws fro brunch then off to Irwindale Raceway to watch my kids and son-in-law burn up the 1/2 mile..
Hiball, does the front sway bar take the place of the factory stabilizer, or do they work in conjunction with each other.
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
It replaces the original.
What Rich said.
Thanks guys, I thought It did, I ordered mine yesterday from concours.
Tim :unitedstates:
How much does this kit run I can't find any i :deadhorse:nfo on my front has no sway left in it
A front 1 1/8" sway bar cost me $229.00 from concours plus shipping
Tim :unitedstates:
Thanks I need to get one on order
I think Southwestthunderbirds is the same price. Depending on where you're at shipping might be cheaper. SWt'bird is in Texas, Concourse in Nevada. SWT'Bird supplies Concourse with the bars, but if their dropshipped from Texas, shipping may be the same. ?
Rich
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2014-02-18 21:15
I think Southwestthunderbirds is the same price. Depending on where you're at shipping might be cheaper. SWt'bird is in Texas, Concourse in Nevada. SWT'Bird supplies Concourse with the bars, but if their dropshipped from Texas, shipping may be the same. ?
Rich
I ordered mine from Concourse thinking maybe the shipping would be cheaper but it's shipped from the manufacturer in Texas so I don't think it saved anything.
Hiball,
When you removed your old frontend bushings how did you remove the old ones,
mine should be here soon so I want to get everything prepped and painted.
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2014-02-19 19:13
Hiball,
When you removed your old frontend bushings how did you remove the old ones,
mine should be here soon so I want to get everything prepped and painted.
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
I wish I could give you step by step instructions but I recall very little of exactly how I did it. The lower ones I torched the center out and let the rubber burn until it fell out then collapsed the outer part a little and drove it out with something. I use such a combination of large sockets, pieced of pipe etc. The top ones are the hardest and I recall using a puller against something solid I put in the bolt hole.. Once you get one side out you can usually remove the pivot arm and then knock the other side out. I don't have a press so I just kind of engineer as I go along. Sorry, I know this isn't much help.
Hiball,
Thanks for the info, how about reinstallation of the bushings? I don't have a press either.
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2014-02-20 13:29
Hiball,
Thanks for the info, how about reinstallation of the bushings? I don't have a press either.
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
Tim, I made a simple tool for installing the lower ones and had a picture but can't find it. Before you get to that point I'll dig it out of the garage and take another one.
Tim..It's been a long time, but removing the old bushings, I drilled out the rubber so I could knock the inner sleeve out easier. Then I just collapsed the outer with a hammer and cold chisel.
To install the new ones I used a length of 1/2 or 5/8 all thread, nuts, washers and some sockets from a 3/4" socket set on either side of each ear. By using the sockets and all thread, you can press the new ones in without chancing bending the control arm. When pressing the new ones in, the bushings are not pressed in all the way, but rather watch the 3 or 4 raised. For the top control arm, I'm trying to remember, but I think you can get one side bushing put in,put the control arm in, and used the threaded hole in the end of the control arm to pull the second bushing in. I think I wedged a wood block between the ears on the upper arms when pulling the 2nd bushing in to make sure I wasn't collapsing the ears inwards...hope that makes sense. I also should have pics somewhere.
I did the same way as Rich with a tool made from allthread a few large washers and nuts and used a pipe coupling to back it up. You can pull the tops in like Rich said with the bolts, I used a few bolts that were longer then the originals until it pulled in far enough to use the originals.
I dug out the tool and an old A arm so you can see it. Except the pipe coupling goes on the other side :003: but you'll get the idea
Found a pic...Tim, note you can see the stop tabs I was talking about...LOL..you're just too fast for me Jim.
This obviously is the lower arm, works the same on the top.
Tim..just a forwarning..your probably gonna need a sledge hammer to get your front lower control arm shafts off the frame. I can't remember if they have to come out to replace the bushings, or if I did it because I was putting new ones in. If your not replacing the lower shafts, posibly just the rear one needs to be removed to get the control arm off....sorry, I just don't remember.
Thanks Guys,
You've been great help! Any idea why they are not made in all the way? Is there a measurement for that spacing? Should I take a measure before removing? So many, many, many, questions! lol!
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
Just push them in until the stop tabs engage, that's what they're there for. read my edit on the above post.
Just bring them in as far as the little nubs, if you were to go all the way in you couldn't get them back in the car, they would be too wide to fit between the frame cross members.
Rich types faster then me :003:
A picture is worth a thousand words, and many man hours! Lol!
Thanks again,
Tim :unitedstates:
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2014-02-20 16:37
Rich types faster then me :003:
Yeah, if I can remember the words I want to type.
Tim..the outer socket or pipe like Jim's has to be large enough to allow the bushing to go up inside a bit. My cheapy 3/4 socket set comes in handy..think I've only used it with a socket wrench once, but probably a dozen times for things like this and bending stuff aroud.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2014-02-20 16:50
Yeah, if I can remember the words I want to type.
Tim..the outer socket or pipe like Jim's has to be large enough to allow the bushing to go up inside a bit. My cheapy 3/4 socket set comes in handy..think I've only used it with a socket wrench once, but probably a dozen times for things like this and bending stuff aroud.
I could never justify a 3/4 set for as little as you would actually use it so the pipe fitting worked fine and was cheap, I'm all about cheap :003:
I have some axle nut sockets I bought for my wife's 2005 mountaineer that should work fine.
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
The threaded rod thing is neat. It is similar to a Kent Tool or one of the other OEM specialty tool manufacturers. A good vice does the same thing. X2 on the cautions to not distort the control arm. Don't push them in too deep.
Harbor freight..on sale about $35. I needed a socket for my Jeep axel nut...didn't want to pay 20 bucks for one socket at the local auto parts store, so the HF set for 35 sounded good. That job was the only time I ever used the ratchet wrench with the set..LOL...the ratchet head literally fell apart during that first use..had to reassemble it. It's got a heck of a breaker bar with the set though.
Any ideas on how to get the front lower pins out? Mine are rusted in quite well!
Tim :unitedstates:
I used a sledge hammer. I already had new ones, so I wasn't concerned with damaging the old ones getting them out. I do remember I had a time getting them out, for a while I wasn't sure I could, and I was able to do it from the top because my front sheetmetal was off. I don't envy you trying to get them out from under the car.
Lots of liquid wrench and a larger hammer. Have tried heating them?
Soak the heck out of them with PB blaster, let it sit. Try to crack them loose with a 6 point socket, maybe strike them first with a good flat drift and a large hammer. All of mine came out this way, and many were rust buckets. Mark
Mark...I thought he was talking about the actual shafts that are pressed into the frame, not the bolts holding the control arm on. I assume you were talking about the bolts when you mentioned 6 point socket? Maybe I'm wrong.
I was thinking lower control arm pins
my booboo...I had forgotten the pins/shafts had a hex head.
Mark,
I have had them soaking for a day in PB Blaster, ill give it a couple more until in do battle with it again. the rear ones came out slick, I guess years of oil leaks has been a gift to the car and me! :003:
Tim :unitedstates:
I had the same results, rears came right out. You could heat the area surrounding the pin, then give it a pop. Mark
Mark, Ill give it a try! I ordered new pins this morning. Hated to, but I think in the long run its best.
Tim :unitedstates: